bio diesel and WVO

[Oonrahnjay]

(snip) Now as for the German vo systems.  My jettas glow plugs are lightning fast.  They only turn on for maybe a half a second.  I am thinking they figured out how to heat the vo instantly at the injectors. 

At one time the Common Market Rapporteurs (the committers that set the Euro standards) were looking very hard at Pure VO which they defined as cleaned, strictly-defined, never-used oil from canola (they call it rapeseed).  This oil has a much narrow range of specifications than WVO (when you're using WVO, you're burning VO -- mostly soy -- mixed with chicken fat, anti-oxidant additives, moisture, and "other things") and one of the most strictly-controlled specifications is viscosity.  That light-weight and narrow range of viscosity is down much closer to petro-diesel and is one of the characteristics that made this particular oil attractive to their development process.  It may be that these German vo systems are set up to use this finely-controlled vegetable oil rather than WVO (I don't know this for sure; I haven't followed those developments for years but that's how they seemed to be going a few years ago.)

(Please note:  This post is intended to provide info on a certain aspect of the topic that we were talking about; i.e., operation of a vehicle on vegetable oils, including the various parameters and operational situations that make a difference to the way that these systems work.  It's not intended to argue with anything that anyone already knows or insult anyone's background in running their own vehicles.)

[belfert]

You're missing a poll option for me.  I would consider it, but I have no available bay space for another tank (or two).  I could use more cargo space as it is and I already have two of my three bays basically empty.

[Charley Davidson]

Wal, what are those hoses made of that you are using? If they are rubber they will cause you problems, I saw what rubber did in Bill Glen's system he was running on his generator and it was not pretty, There were little balls of rubber in his filter when I took it apart. Where my system leaks or I spill oil the rubber seals on my bay doors are turning mushy. I used either titanium line or aluminum on everything that the oil touched or went through.

[wal1809]

Hey CharlieD. It is a chemical rated fuel hose. 

[wal1809]

Alright!!!  We made it to Freer,Texas a little while ago.  250 miles on WVO.  I still get a kick out if running on trash. 

The while way down here my wife was watching that royal wedding.  Ohhhhhh!!!!!  I finally turned the volume up on the tv for the back up camera.  I could hear the engine and she sounds good on WVO.  Love hearing that Jimmy at or around 60 mph.

[artvonne]

  Myself, I would want those fuel hoses far, far away from that turbocharger. Just sayin.

[Jeremy]

(snip) Now as for the German vo systems.  My jettas glow plugs are lightning fast.  They only turn on for maybe a half a second.  I am thinking they figured out how to heat the vo instantly at the injectors.  

At one time the Common Market Rapporteurs (the committers that set the Euro standards) were looking very hard at Pure VO which they defined as cleaned, strictly-defined, never-used oil from canola (they call it rapeseed).  This oil has a much narrow range of specifications than WVO (when you're using WVO, you're burning VO -- mostly soy -- mixed with chicken fat, anti-oxidant additives, moisture, and "other things") and one of the most strictly-controlled specifications is viscosity.  That light-weight and narrow range of viscosity is down much closer to petro-diesel and is one of the characteristics that made this particular oil attractive to their development process.  It may be that these German vo systems are set up to use this finely-controlled vegetable oil rather than WVO (I don't know this for sure; I haven't followed those developments for years but that's how they seemed to be going a few years ago.)

(Please note:  This post is intended to provide info on a certain aspect of the topic that we were talking about; i.e., operation of a vehicle on vegetable oils, including the various parameters and operational situations that make a difference to the way that these systems work.  It's not intended to argue with anything that anyone already knows or insult anyone's background in running their own vehicles.)

I know a handful of people running their cars on veg oil, and they are all using new oil poured straight into the standard fuel tank. One friend of mine dilutes the oil with paraffin beforehand to adjust the weight of the oil to match that of diesel, while other people I know don't bother with this, and don't report any problems. I hear that certain cars are known as being 'good' for veg oil without any modification, while others have problems with the oil clogging their fuel filters. But I don't know anyone who does all this extra-tanks-special-valves-pre-heating stuff. Not saying that it isn't the right approach to using WVO (which is of course much cheaper to acquire than new oil), but I do also wonder what would happen if you got pulled over or stopped at a vehicle inspection checkpoint. Once they'd seen all that extra plumbing on your fuel system you'd need to be able to offer very good proof that you'd been religiously recording your fuel usage and sending off the correct road fuel tax payments. They tend not to have a sense of humour about tax evasion

Jeremy

[wal1809]

Running wvo is not tax evasion.

[Jeremy]

Running wvo is not tax evasion.

Possibly you're right, but I'd be interested in understanding your logic


Jeremy

[wal1809]

In Texas I pay a flat fee added into my yearly registration called "road and bridge tax".  I have talked to the State and there is no tax for burning used vegetable oil as fuel.  There is no tax evasion here.  There is no permit required for carrying wvo unless you carry 400 plus gallons at a time.

[wal1809]

Texas is very different than many other states and countries.  Although quickly becoming ruined like the rest of them.  I'll give you an example.  I got a call from my neighbor asking when the last time we had our septic systems pumped.  We have them done at the same time to get a better deal.

I asked why amd he said he got a court summons because has thr new annarobic (sorry about the spelling).  To get a permit for it he had to present to the county a contract with a service company.  That company will rat you out to the county if you don't have the system pumped every 2 years.  When you get the summons if you go without a pumped receipt your gonna get fined.

My system is grandfathered.  I can go forever without it.  I don't like the new system.  I don't like government knowing about when I pump my poop and telling me what to do.

[bevans6]

Based on something I heard on the news today, used cooking oil is now becoming a scarce resource that is collected and sold to commercial re-distillers, and the deals are being done by the chain restaurants.  People are now having to secure their cooking oil because it's getting stolen.  My instinct is that the window for collecting cooking oil at free or very low cost is closing and commercial utilization of the resource is right around the corner.  Of course, nothing is preventing anyone from going into this on a commercial basis, aside from licensing and regulation, I would suspect, and if you factor in the true costs of recycling the resulting fuel will cost probably close to what diesel does, since there will be little incentive to sell it below a market driven price point.  What are you all thinking about this angle?

Brian

[wal1809]

This is what we refer to as the oil wars.  People have been stealing grease for a while now.  People are being charged for thr grease.  I am lucky and still get it free.  There is a place around the corner from me that I am going to offer a dollar a gallon.  It is used once for frech fries and discarded.  They are caterers and have no way to use the grease over and over. 

So far as the price comparison twix pump fuel and wvo.  It is a black and white comparison.   .10 a gallon finished product WVO vs $4.00 a gallon for pump fuel.  At a dollar a gallon 1 mile from my house I will still be way out in front.

[bevans6]

My thinking was that if the majority of the used oil supply starts to be owned by commercial recyclers (all they have to do is offer something for it, more than you are willing to offer, or sign a contract with head office, or "rent" the clean oil to the restaurant so they don't actually own it) then the price becomes what people will pay, not what it costs to convert.  I think people who don't have your skills would happily pay $3.50 a gallon if real diesel is $4.00...   When the process becomes commercialized all kinds of costs creep in, but the profit will be there so there will be people starting the businesses to take advantage of that.  This is what I mean by "is the window for this kind of thing as a backyard, personal endeavour closing?"

Brian

[wal1809]

I don't think it is closing, changing but not closing.  My fantasy is to grow my own and be completely out of the loop of it all.  On another forum there is a farmer who sets aside 100 acres for canola.  He is almost completely off of pump fuel.  After pressing the oil out of Canola he feeds the pulp or seedcake to his cows.  How kewl would that be?