I got hookups!!!

Sean · April 14, 2011, 09:30:25 PM

Quote from: Chopper Scott on April 14, 2011, 06:58:26 PM
If a fire occured from someone following their advise they could actually be held accountable.

Actually, no, we can't. Plenty of case law on this already, feel free to look it up.

That said, there is a reason why you will seldom, if ever, hear me recommend anything on this forum that is not strictly to code.

Quote
Some may know more than us average busnuts about electricity but I seriously doubt they know as much as the guys that do it for a living.

If that's a bet, I'll take you on. I've worked with hundreds of journeyman electricians over the years, and even some master electricians. MOST of them could not pass the electrical contractors' license exam (you don't need a license to work as a journeyman, you only have to work for someone with a license).

I can further tell you without equivocating that the vast majority of electricians, even licensed contractors, have little to no knowledge whatsoever of the code section which applies to RVs (which is not the subject of this thread, but it is the subject of most electrical threads on the board).

When you think about it, that statement actually flies in the face of logic. It would be like me telling you that the 18-year-old working at the grill at McDonald's knows more than you do about cooking, because he does it for a living. Or that the person stamping out fenders at the Ford plant knows more about building cars than a weekend hot-rod enthusiast, or that the teller at the bank knows more about handling money than, say, a dentist who trades his stock account every week on eTrade -- after all, the teller handles money for a living.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

eagle19952 · April 14, 2011, 09:46:50 PM

Sure wish i was in California

happycamperbrat · April 14, 2011, 10:09:58 PM

bevans6 · April 15, 2011, 05:08:44 AM

I took another look at the photo's on the first page. The small metallic sheathed cable that is buried is the ground to the ground stake. The larger poly-looking sheathed cable is not buried, it is above ground feed directly into the house about 4 feet back of the pedestal. The breaker section is a direct feed from the meter base, so in effect there are now three "main breakers" taking supply direct from the meter.

What I might have done, subject to asking my electrical contractor, is this: put a master breaker of appropriate size in the pedestal box, and use it as the main breaker for all supply to everything. The feed from the meter looks like it is sized for 200 amps but the size of the breaker has to also protect the feed lines to the meter from the transformer, so size appropriately. Then I would hang a second breaker panel on the side of the pedestal, separate enclosure, and feed that from the main breaker. That panel would have breakers for the house, and a feed to a separate RV pedestal box that would finally have the breakers and outlets for the 15 amp, 30 amp and 50 amp outlets.

Brian

boxcarOkie · April 15, 2011, 05:19:34 AM

At first, when I saw that catchy title (I Got Hookups) I thought to myself, dinner and a movie next time I am in LA? But then I found out it was electricity.

Nuts.

BCO

babell2 · April 15, 2011, 05:24:31 AM

Quote from: bevans6 on April 15, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
I took another look at the photo's on the first page. The small metallic sheathed cable that is buried is the ground to the ground stake. The larger poly-looking sheathed cable is not buried, it is above ground feed directly into the house about 4 feet back of the pedestal. The breaker section is a direct feed from the meter base, so in effect there are now three "main breakers" taking supply direct from the meter.

Simple Three main breakers, three houses, Just two roll.

Works for me

Brice

chev49 · April 15, 2011, 06:48:37 AM

NEC does list rv codes in the book, at least in the one that i have. And in the county that i live in, they also have printed material which is essentially nec code for house n mobile work. I use both. However, when i was installing another mobile on my property, i belive i ran a #8 size loom 100' to the mobile panel for six months until i got the pole and so forth installed n inspected. Just a bit illegal...

..... but it worked fine for all the assembly work, and even used the range ...

I also have an older meter downleg of the new one way meters that pge installed last year on my property, and it works just fine. I just try to keep the county guy happy and i dont have any problems.

Len Silva · April 15, 2011, 06:51:23 AM

I'm a little late to the party here. I see no problem with having the 20 amp outlet on the left side as long as you protect it with a single pole 20 amp breaker. There is room in the panel.

NEC 230-71 allows up to six switches (breakers) in a service entrance panel. The phrasing used in the code is that all disconnects can be operated with "no more than six operations of the hand".

happycamperbrat · April 15, 2011, 11:42:42 AM

Quote from: bevans6 on April 15, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
I took another look at the photo's on the first page. The small metallic sheathed cable that is buried is the ground to the ground stake. The larger poly-looking sheathed cable is not buried, it is above ground feed directly into the house about 4 feet back of the pedestal. The breaker section is a direct feed from the meter base, so in effect there are now three "main breakers" taking supply direct from the meter.

What I might have done, subject to asking my electrical contractor, is this: put a master breaker of appropriate size in the pedestal box, and use it as the main breaker for all supply to everything. The feed from the meter looks like it is sized for 200 amps but the size of the breaker has to also protect the feed lines to the meter from the transformer, so size appropriately. Then I would hang a second breaker panel on the side of the pedestal, separate enclosure, and feed that from the main breaker. That panel would have breakers for the house, and a feed to a separate RV pedestal box that would finally have the breakers and outlets for the 15 amp, 30 amp and 50 amp outlets.

Brian

Brian you are right. The large flex pipe is maybe only an inch covered with dirt and only in a few places, that's why I said it would be easy to expose. This does go to a separate panel that has all the breakers for my house and even one labeled "main".

My mom's is done exactly the same and they were done at least about 10 years apart (though hers does not have a roof over that area). They were both done by the same contractor and both approved by the county of Kern. They are also within just a couple feet of our water inlets that supply our home and yard. And both of our septics are within 10' of these power poles too..... The meter reader doesnt read these meters anymore and instead we have the new ones out close to the street. But I have additionally set up my sprinker system in that area and although I dont directly water that area, the backflows are there....

happycamperbrat · April 15, 2011, 06:11:19 PM

For the people advising me and following along this craziness with me, I made some photos for you. Im on down time with this right now because Im waiting for help. A neighbor is supposed to come over and help me get another breaker in the panel. Im having a lot of problems trying to push that little bugger into place! And yes...... sigh, as you all knew and I did not..... the 30amp adapter I made was only 3 wires whereas my 30amp that I just installed is 4 wires.... So off to HD I went again and this time I got another 30amp breaker with the correct RV plug which will be dedicated for RV cords.

Here's pics of my progress and the tools Im using and stuff. This time I even put captions to explain it. http://s495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/happycamperbrat/Little%20GTO/home%20hookups/

challenger440 · April 15, 2011, 06:35:18 PM

Well HCB, with all of the revisions it looks like you'll be done with that about the same time I'm headed south for the winter.

Save me spot. jm

p.s. I'm guessing it's warm there in the winter!

John316 · April 15, 2011, 07:11:57 PM

Teresa,

When I saw the pics you posted, I went for popcorn and a soda, to watch how this thread would play out. I didn't post (even though I am a licensed master electrician), because I knew others would chime in. No doubt, there are things that need to be fixed. You have gotten some good advice.

Good for you for fixing it.

God bless,

John

happycamperbrat · April 15, 2011, 08:25:10 PM

I really want this to be done right, and that is a lot of the reason I posted here about this project. I do want ya all to come on over, but I want you to know it is safe

John316

Challenge come on down! As for winter weather..... sometimes yes, sometimes no. But even our worse is better then most places

Im gonna have to pick back up on this project later this weekend.

Sean · April 16, 2011, 12:24:28 AM

Quote from: Len Silva on April 15, 2011, 06:51:23 AM
I'm a little late to the party here. I see no problem with having the 20 amp outlet on the left side as long as you protect it with a single pole 20 amp breaker. There is room in the panel.

Len, it's hard to tell from just a photo, but it looked to me like the wire ingress from that nipple would interfere with placement of a breaker in the bottom-left-most space (currently vacant).

Since the manufacturer did not put a KO there (it was drilled out in the field) it may not really comply with the listing terms of the enclosure. This would be a case of having to consult the panel manufacturer to be sure.

Relocating the nipple down to the KO area at the bottom of the panel would be easy, safe, and sure to be compliant. Probably easier to do than get an answer from the manufacturer or a ruling from code enforcement.

JMO.

Teresa: We seem to be bouncing back and forth here since you are posting in two places (the other being on BNO). I answered some of your questions over there, including ones in your photo captions.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

Sean · April 16, 2011, 01:12:18 AM

Quote from: bevans6 on April 15, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
I took another look at the photo's on the first page. The small metallic sheathed cable that is buried is the ground to the ground stake. The larger poly-looking sheathed cable is not buried, it is above ground feed directly into the house about 4 feet back of the pedestal.

Brian, you and I must be looking at different photos.

In photo #1, I see two FMC's leaving the box. The large one clearly goes underground. That's not permitted, even for a few inches, although in this photo it disappears behind what looks like a coat, so it's impossible to tell how far it runs underground. The smaller one disappears off frame to the bottom right of the photo. However, based on other photos of the interior, I also speculated that this contained the driven ground wire:

Quote from: Sean on April 14, 2011, 08:56:32 PM
I didn't see where the small one goes, but I was guessing that it is carrying the driven ground and it only goes as far as the rod. Since it would not be buried it would be OK so long as this is not considered a "wet location". The large one is definitely a problem.

In photo #8, I again see the large and small conduits, and in this photo both disappear off-frame at the bottom of the photo. I also see a flexible gas line, to the right of those, which happens to be gray and might be confused for the continuation of one of the conduits (it's not). It appears to run to the structure to the right. I assume it comes up from the ground off-frame below.

I've gone through all the other photos Teresa has posted and I don't see where you are seeing the large FMC running above ground to a building.

That said, even if it was above ground, if it is outdoors and uncovered at any point, it is considered a wet location and FMC may not be used.

I'm not sure how this passed inspection, but it did. And I see FMC used outdoors all the time; spend any appreciable amount of time on the roofs of commercial buildings and you will eventually see tons of it festooning package HVAC units. It happens. Which is one reason why I said that, as long as it already passed, I would leave it alone until it becomes a problem. But if a tradesman had done that on one of my jobs, I would make them rip it out and do it right.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com