4 Stroke Detroits

CrabbyMilton · February 21, 2011, 03:49:23 AM

They may have had orders to complete coaches with pre 2010 engines so they had to finish those orders so that may have explained the lack of updates. You're right though, it makes you wonder what the "webmaster" does all day.

TomC · February 21, 2011, 08:09:29 AM

Many have the situation of the Detroit engines backwards. Detroit will sell their engines to anyone that wants to buy them. Many military vehicles still use the 6V-53TA, 8V-71TA, 8V-92TA-which all three are still being made. Series 60 is still being made for commercial and marine use.

Any manufacturer that wants to offer a Detroit-can. The main reason the truck manufacturers dropped the Series 60 from their lineup of engines is that when Freightliner bought out Detroit Diesel, the other manufacturers felt they would then be buying from the competition. I know several big trucking companies that had been using White/GMC/Volvo, Kenworth, Peterbilts-all with Series 60's that switched to Freightliner because they wanted the Series 60-not the truck.

Now just a matter of time before we see the DD engines in buses. Good Luck, TomC

belfert · February 21, 2011, 08:24:22 AM

If Detroit engines are available for any manufacturer to use why does Detroit's web page for the DD15 show it as available only in Western Star and Freightliner trucks?

morefire · February 21, 2011, 12:40:32 PM

If I were ordering a coach and had an option for an engine it would be an ISX600, no if's and's or buts. I would take a Caterpillar C15 first, but you cant get them now, so....ISX all the way.

RoyJ · February 21, 2011, 02:03:13 PM

Quote from: CrabbyMilton on February 20, 2011, 09:53:13 AM
http://www.mcicoach.com/2010-engines/index.htm
Sometimes it takes awhile to update their brouchures. But you can see that DETROIT engines are optional.

Thanks for the link.

I find it surprising that they'd put an ISL, primarily a transit engine, in a highway coach. Then again, why not? It probably run circles around the early 11.1L S60 they put in the origional 102D models. Shows you how far we've come in terms of technology, even considering the emissions choke-up.

I also find it surprising that the J/E series gets better mileage than the D series, considering the D is lighter and smaller in frontal area. The J/E must have significantly better drag coefficient.

belfert · February 21, 2011, 02:12:20 PM

It appears to me that the ISL may only be available on the 40 foot version of the D series. For sure it is only available on the D series. It is still a better engine than the 6V92 they put in 40 foot coaches at one point. (Yes, they still make a 40 foot coach if you want one.)

hargreaves · February 21, 2011, 04:15:33 PM

It's only a better engine if you buy a pre 2007 model. the EGR engines don't last and cause all kinds of engine coding grief. I work on the transits every day and they do not perform well at all.
Gerry

RoyJ · February 21, 2011, 05:10:18 PM

Quote from: hargreaves on February 21, 2011, 04:15:33 PM
It's only a better engine if you buy a pre 2007 model. the EGR engines don't last and cause all kinds of engine coding grief. I work on the transits every day and they do not perform well at all.
Gerry

I'd say 2007 - 2010 are the worst 3 years ever for diesels. They tried to control NoX levels by aggressive EGR, which produces lots of soot. They then tries to eliminate all that soot by aggressive regen on DPFs. It's a bad cycle.

I do think the newer Urea Injection based diesels will be better, as Nox is now offloaded to downstream treatment instead of highly inefficient EGR.

Bill 340 · February 21, 2011, 06:40:07 PM

I know that Prevost started putting series 60 in 1994, right at the end of that year, supposedly only 5 got them in 1994 All 5 were 40 ft coaches, last year for the 40 ft, went to 42 and 45 in in 1995 and all series 60.

niles500 · February 21, 2011, 11:14:37 PM

Bill - I think we all discussed this before - Weren't the (5) series 60's all VIP's? I think you meant H3-41's (not 42's) only made for one year

TomC · February 22, 2011, 08:50:21 AM

Comparing a transit buses performance (which is thee hardest service any engine can be asked to do) to using the engine in a bus conversion is just not the same. The ISL is just about the perfect motorhome engine. It is 1300lbs lighter then the ISX, 1000lbs lighter then the DD or Series 60 engines, and tremendously smaller physically. Current engines have a 450hp and 1250hp rating for motoehomes-almost as much power as an 8V-92TA (actually more compared to the stock 8V-92TA at 400hp and 1200lb/ft torque). When and if I have to up grade my 3406B Caterpillar 400hp in my truck to a smog engine, the ISL will be the one I use. Good Luck, TomC

Busted Knuckle · February 22, 2011, 02:01:43 PM

OK on the Setra/Diamler issue. I have a little insight being we own 6 Setra's and I pretty much keep up with what is happening with them.
I was told by Setra that Diamler NA was not going to restrict the sale of DD's to just Setra coaches. When I asked why not they told me there were several reasons.
1) was that it some how violated fair trade laws. yada yada yada. (also why the rumors that the Van Hools would be the only coaches allowed to use the Cummins engine went away fast!
2) it was said that if Setra were to be the only one allowed DD's and Van Hool had exclusives to Cummins and Prevost had exclusives on Volvo, and CAT getting out of the US OTR Market then there would be lawsuits from MCI about anti-trust laws & monopolies and all that junk! Supposedly when all these deals were being done it looked like MCI was going under anyway and nobody was worried. But when MCI was able to make it's deals to come out of the bankruptcy everyone back pedaled and rethought their strategies!
That is the way it was explained to me by those in the know @ Setra.

BK

CrabbyMilton · February 22, 2011, 03:13:38 PM

Very good perspective thanks for the insight. Evidently, PREVOST(VOLVO) is confident on the idea of offering VOLVO engines only at this time. It wouldn't shock me too much if VAN HOOL began to offer MAXXFORCE engines at some point or even MCI doing that. BCI was supposed to offer MAXXFORCE exclusively but since they are out of the picture, MAXXFORCE could make a pitch. Some of you know that I own CUMMINS stock but I like the idea of buses and fire trucks offering engines from different builders. It keeps competitors on their toes and the coach builder can give customers a choice. BOEING offers a choice of 3 engine builders on the 747.

belfert · February 22, 2011, 04:28:15 PM

My idea of the Cummins ISL being better than the 6V92 is that it has better HP and better torque. Some might not call the ISL better because they don't like the electronics and all that on new engines.

Bill 340 · February 22, 2011, 08:06:31 PM

Niles you are right, they were 41 footers, BUT mine was a hwy coach and it has one of those 5, with a 4 speed allison