BIODIESEL

[JohnEd]

Neo,

You have 4 red lines and two black lines going into the surge tank.  What are the lines carrying and what does a surge tank do?

John

[wal1809]

I copied my system based on Neo's bus.  I bought a 20 gallon tank which is fed via pump from the larger 100 gallon tank.  The 20 gallon surge tank is heated but the larger 100 is not.  The lines going to the tank would be hot engine water in and out.  The others will be the feed line from the larger tank, a feed line to the engine and a return fuel line from the engine.

The concept is to keep feeding that engine 180 degree oil.  When it leaves the tank it has been warmed up considerably.  Mine goes through 3 heat exchangers after the surge tank and then enters the motor.

I don't have  a pic of the tank guts here at the office but here is the tank exterior.

[NeoplanAN440]

Neo,

You have 4 red lines and two black lines going into the surge tank.  What are the lines carrying and what does a surge tank do?

John

yes,

the two black lines are coolant lines , feeding a hot fox tank heater to heat the surge tank.same loop has a 30 plate heat exchanger, a heated fuel filter and a heated water seperator.
two reds are engine in and return  the other two reds are feed in and a vent line back into the main wvo tanks. the level in the surge tank is controled by a level switch , that activates the lift pump at the main tanks. in case this fails and overfills i returned the vent to the main wvo tanks, so it will back fill.

the surge tank is only there , to feed the engine. this way only 17 gallons have to be heated and i have faster switch over times from diesel.also with the amount of fuel a detroit is spilling allready at idle ,its would take some huge inside dia fuel lines to not have to much restriction when on wvo with lines longer then 20 feet. on my other vehicles i found that when driving short distances and having lots of heating and cooling cycles on a large wvo tank , that i have signs of condensation (water build up)

the only flaw in my system , is that i kept the stock secondary fuel filter after the gear driven fuel pump.
i kept it as insurance in case my pump fails and to keep temp changes at switchover slow.the temp diff should be no problem on a detroit, with the gear pump mounted to the block and fuel running in the heads. but on some ve pumps i had problems with seized plungers at switchover.
the only problem i have due to the filter is that my purge times are longer to flush also the amount kept in the filter.
before i stop and switch over to diesel, i turn of the transfer pump to the surge tank, and run it down to half. then i switch to diesel and let the return flow into the surge tank. so the wvo and diesel mix goes into the surge and not to the main diesel tanks. after a minute return also switches back to the diesel tanks and the bus runs on the main diesel tanks, ready to shut off.

my main wvo tanks are only kept at room temp (bus inside) and the fed lines are bundled with the coolant lines that go to the front under dash heater and to the heat exchanger for the shower.
i also have my webasto diesel fired water heater set up , that its looped into the engine and then into the wvo pre heat circuit. so when my shower water is ready, my engine is also at 180 together with the wvo and after airing up im ready to switch.

with that setup i usually use between 20-30 gallons of diesel on a 2000mile trip. most of the fuel used by my webasto and espar heaters and the generator. next step would be to have the gen set also connected to the wvo source. maybe i have that ready till summer when i need the power for the ac.

[HighTechRedneck]

I split off the part discussing the politics and taxation principles of BidD and WVO, etc.

Let's keep this thread technical and anyone wanting to discuss the other aspects, go to the spin-off thread:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=18984.0

[wal1809]

Sorry Hightech!  I posted an apology for railroading this thread on the linked thread.

On a better note lets talk bio diesel technical!!!

[TomC]

The dye in ATF and the dye in off road Diesel is different.  I was stopped by the Montana HP and my tanks (when I was truck driving) were dipped.  I asked the officer if I had ATF in there would I be fined-and he said yes.  But would be refunded when the sample was analyzed as being ATF rather then off road Diesel.

Using WVO and creating your own fuel is a novel idea.  But-I consider my time worth $50/hr.  Have you ever figured your actual cost of creating your refined WVO including your time-whether it be working on the equipment, or the time you have to collect it, etc.  I think you'll find when factoring in all the many hours, it's just not worth it.  Good Luck, TomC

[Charley Davidson]

I really don't get the bio thing, why put all that extra work & money into it when you can just go strait WVO? You can even use the bad stuff to make glop logs and burn that for heat.

I call my WVO "Sweat Equity Fuel" but it's really not that much work once you have a system down. You have to work for your fuel money why not cut out the middle man and just work for your fuel?

I drove 36,000 miles on WVO only buying $1,000.00 in fuel, that's close to $17,000.00 in savings

I can carry in various methods about 400 gallons of oil at a time if need be and with a trailer once I had 800 plus gallons. I'm setup to pump from any where to any where on my system, I have a 20 gallon tank I run out of but don't have it hard plumed for auto fill like the others do but the fittings are in place.

[wal1809]

The dye in ATF and the dye in off road Diesel is different.  I was stopped by the Montana HP and my tanks (when I was truck driving) were dipped.  I asked the officer if I had ATF in there would I be fined-and he said yes.  But would be refunded when the sample was analyzed as being ATF rather then off road Diesel.

Using WVO and creating your own fuel is a novel idea.  But-I consider my time worth $50/hr.  Have you ever figured your actual cost of creating your refined WVO including your time-whether it be working on the equipment, or the time you have to collect it, etc.  I think you'll find when factoring in all the many hours, it's just not worth it.  Good Luck, TomC

I consider my time worth the same.  If you were to add up the cost for 400 gallons that would be $1200 a month for fuel expense if I bought from the pump.  That is with 2 VW TDIs that get 45 miles per gallon.  We drive those to work and the others like the bus or the Excursion when traveling out of town.  MY time might be worth $50 an hour but htat does not mean I can go earn $50 an hour when ever I want.  I can brew bio D whenever I choose though.  It is there so Why not.

Charlie D.  How are you Sir?  If you look back at the pic of my surge tank you will see your heat exchanger installed.  It is behind the surge tank and to the left.  To answer your wuestion I would like to run nothing but WVO on everything.  I find it is easier to run Bio D with the TDIs and the tractors.  I am going to convert the Excursion to run WVO when I finish the bus.  THat will save a lot of time and money.  It will allow me not to have to brew 400 gallons a month of BioD as well.

[Charley Davidson]

Was wondering how things went & if you were still on this board. Heat exchanger work out nice for you?

I guess I should have been a bit more clearer about the bio thing, I know some cars/trucks are not as WVO friendly as our bigger rigs.

Your install looks nice.

My bus is not running at the moment contemplating selling it if I can get a decent price out of it, I want to buy a CNC Plasma table setup from a former bus guy Ross Carlisle.

[wal1809]

Yes Sir I am right on the verge of being done.  I am waiting on a tank and once it gets done then I will finish out the project.  I am sure I am going to have some bumps in the road but heck that allows me to tinker some more.