Towing and Tongue Weight

[RJ]

All -

As has been cussed and discussed on this and BNO over and over, it's well known that a lot of coaches are not designed to pull trailers, especially ones with heavy tongue weights.  GMCs in particular have been hashed over often.

Anyway, while surfing around on some auto racing forums, I ran across this little goodie.  Might be a much better solution than the "Tuff-Tow" that's also available.

http://www.trailertoad.com/

Anybody ever seen one at a race weekend somewhere?  They seem to be extremely popular in the Midwest.

Be interesting to get some feedback from owners, not typical "testimonials" you get on the seller's advertising blurb.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[artvonne]

  It would make backing up as impossible as a car dolly.

  I havnt researched the issue, but as you mentioned GMC's, are they not able to carry much weight off the bumper? Would a load distributing hitch work on a GMC, or is that too much torque?? 

  How do MCI's handle a trailer??

[RJ]

Art -

It would make backing up as impossible as a car dolly.

You mustn't have perused the site referred to very thoroughly before posting the above comment.  Go back and try again - backing up is covered.

I haven't researched the issue, but as you mentioned GMC's, are they not able to carry much weight off the bumper?

GMCs use a monocoque chassis - no frame rails.  Engine cradle with bumper attached hangs from roof, held by two bolts, one on each hanger.  This has been discussed numerous times, both here, over on BNO and on the GMC/MCI busnuts groups on Yahoo. 

How do MCI's handle a trailer??

Better than a GMC, but still subject to severe stress cracking on the engine cradle.   Often discussed, as are Eagles, etc.  Prevost motorhome shells from the factory have their engine cradles reinforced on the assembly line.

Would a load distributing hitch work on a GMC, or is that too much torque?? 

Load-distributing hitches are virtually useless on a bus chassis, regardless of manufacturer.  Research how a load-distributing hitch works.

You will be graded on your research skills!   

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Gary '79 5C]

Have not towed with the bus, however looking to do so in the future. This unit appears to be a great design & far more robust than others I have seen.
I agree with MCI cradle stress cracks are a concern. Even before towing a car, I will be reinforcing my cradle attachment points.

[bevans6]

I've seen them several times and the people who have them brag on them a lot.  They work exactly as advertised according to the people who own them.  No issues backing up, you need to have a WD hitch, they make the trailer about 3 feet longer in total length if over all length is an issue..

A weight distributing hitch works exactly the same regardless of what vehicle it is attached to.  It always distributes a portion of tongue weight off the hitch ball and both back to the wheels of the trailer and forward to the front wheels of the vehicle.  It's considered irrelevant on buses with air suspension because the suspension just adjusts the height to where it wants to be anyway.  But the laws of physics don't change, the weight still gets transferred.

Many people suggest that you either don't need to or shouldn't use a WD hitch on a bus with air suspension.  I think that there are several reasons to use one.  You can use it to mitigate or eliminate the rotational torque around the hitch beam from the weight on the hitch ball.  That can reduce load input into the bus framing.  The WD bars stiffen the connection between the bus and the trailer, that can be beneficial from a ride point of view.  A WD hitch often incorporates sway control, which is usually a good thing.  I see about half of the trailers on buses in the race track paddock with a WD hitch and about half without.  the buses at the track are usually Prevost based.

Brian

[robertglines1]

Can't see much difference between this and a Joe Dog(tandem hook up on semi) or function of a tag axle. Only weak spot I see is actual tension on rear frame assembly to get this rolling(all the extra weight)  Brakes would need to be spot on to keep it from Jackknife situation.  I have pulled tandem with no problem on non Ice/snow covered roads.   Bob

[lostagain]

This might be illegal in BC. Two trailers is not allowed in BC, and this could be interpreted as being two trailers.

JC

[longjohn]

Here is a link to a good article by Jim ( rv safetyman)
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm


Loads of good information here!

[RJ]

John O -

Here is a link to a good article by Jim ( rv safetyman)
http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm
Loads of good information here!

Jim needs to update this.  None of the website links for the various products he shares are active.

But he covers the basics well.

(BTW, the Gillig Phantom transit bus is built with two massive frame rails that run bumper to bumper.)

FWIW & HTH. . .

[rv_safetyman]

I have wanted to check those links for some time, just never comes up to the top of the list.  Now I will have to do something

Jim

[JohnEd]

I have seen a similar device/system.  It was a single wheel that was mounted on a caster.  The wheel caster assembly was mounted under and between the tongue rails.  With the caster the supporting wheel never scrubbed in turns.

The system you mention has the wheels fixed and would scrub the tire tread off at an accelerated rate.  Maybe that is not significant? ? ? ?

Can the hanger strap arrangement be augmented with more straps...better foundations?  What tongue weight is being considered in this case?  What kind of mods could you do to the bus with a budget of $3.5K?

Someone on this board installed a "T" drive Cummins M10 or 11 in a 4106 years ago.  That was determined to be "complete folly" by many here and they were vocal and insistant on the matter.  He actually lengthened the bus engine bay so he went way further in his mod and he lengthened the "moment arm" 3 feet or more.  He quit the board for all the flak he was taking.  He got 14+ mpg consistently but he had to keep his speed down to 75MPH or 82.7 Canadian.  The pic I saw was really great and you had to be a 4106 aficionado to spot the stretched 3 feet behind the drive wheels.  Did I mention the 14+ mpg part?  He was also really pleased with the additional power....maybe it was a 4104.  And, he got over 14 mpg.

[RJ]

John -

If you peruse the site a little closer, you'll find that the Trailer Toad axle does, in fact, pivot, thus reducing scrubbing to a minimum.

I remember little single-wheel caster utility trailers, but I don't recall seeing what you mentioned.  Before my time, maybe?

FWIW & HTH. . .

[rv_safetyman]

OK guys, RJ's cutting comments  forced me to update the links on my trailer towing page:

http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm

Like so many companies in the RV related industries, some have gone out of business.  I chose to leave those units on the page to show folks was was available in the past. 

Now there are only two commercial "trailer dollies" available.  Of those, the Trailer Toad seems to be the best option.  It certainly is much better than doing damage to your bus.

Jim

[RJ]

Jim -

I wasn't cuttin' - just poe-light-lee proddin' !

         

[JohnEd]

I ain't cut or even a teensy bit miffed.

It wasn't all that long ago but that sure doesn't mean that they are still in business.  Jim has the last laugh on that aspect.

But here is the deal....even if this stuff is out of mfr. that doesn't mean that they aren't any good NOR that they are not available used.  The single item was an augment to the tow vehicle's capacity.  It was positioned to bear the full tongue weight and one trailer tire can only support so much weight.  I wanted to know if the single that mounted  on the trailer was any good.  Anybody?

John