Fire destroys 15 school buses

[desi arnaz]

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/230875/fire-destroys-15-school-buses

[HB of CJ]

Yep again, I bet some kids burned up all those schoolies hoping they would not have to go to school.  Let us be thankful the burned up busses were not irreplaceable Crown Supercoaches.  HB of CJ (old coot)

[CrabbyMilton]

I wouldn't rule out kids doing this either. Given the state of public education nowadays where any kid who manages to go the whole year without throwing a chair at the teacher can finish top of the class, maybe nothing is lost. Those of you people out there with scanners(like me) should listen to your area school bus frequencies and her how funny and bad it is. All the money we spend on education and the kies behave like animals and the officials can't make sure they get on the right bus at the end of the day. I guess the officials didn't learn much in college.
Yeah those buses appear to be the type built on a BLUEBIRD VISION or NAVISTAR conventional and those are usually disposed of after about 10 years. I love to imagine what things would be like if CROWN was still around and GILLIG was still building school buses. Those things lasted at least 25 years and flys in the face of logic why school bus operators would want to spend money to constantly turn over the fleet with cheaper buses.

[Gary '79 5C]

CrabbyMilton,
I initially resisted this post, but here goes. The person who set this (these) fires should be fully proscuted, shared responsibility for parents, if minors.
I read the responses and reeled at the person who merely says "No big deal, they have insurance" WOW, wait until renewal time for that policy. Also the replacement buses are not obtained over night. The transportation requirements will not be met without costly substitutes & such.

To your last point, I do not agree with the idea of school boards purchasing new buses every 10 years, or less in some places. I do recognize these are designed with obsolesence in mind. But a better specification, and more money initially, the fleet life expectance could easily be doubled. Kinda like my town which sells police cars @ 60-80K miles. This is a city 7 miles long, 1 1/2 wide. While I drive 135 miles round trip commute daily, with cars @ 200K & 250K. The answer I receive is that they have an image to maintain....

Full failure of our society to inflict malicious damages.

sorry for the rant, alot of coffee this AM.

Also love the internet handle there, CM !!

[CrabbyMilton]

Oh I agree with you that the people need to be punished for this regardless the ages of the thugs. I only stated that school buses are replaced about every 10 years because at least around here(Milwaukee WI.) I always see new ones every year and almost never see one more that 10 years old though they seldom change. Yes, even those buses could last much longer if cared for properly but these operators are the vendor of the big school districts and they figure it's easier just to buy new ones and let them go to heck than to properly take care of them.
Glad you like my handle. Milton is not my real name but I do get crabby quiet often. When I was a little kid before my mom bought a house, we lived in a duplex where the man down stairs was a grouchy old man named Milton.

[belfert]

Some states have laws that school buses can only be used for 10 years before being replaced.  Some have suggested that schools in those states should just use gas engine buses because they don't need the longevity of diesel engines.

Police cars need to be 100% reliable.   That is the main reason they buy new ones.  I don't think it is image.  A Crown Vic looks basically the same if new or 80,000 miles.

[CrabbyMilton]

Big city departments are tough on cars so they need to be replaced more often. I have an '04 GRAND MARQUIS and love it but FORD is/did pull the plug on it and are going to replace the old reliable CROWN VICTORIA with a police version of the TAURUS. I hope it works for FORD and the depts. that buy them but it has to go thru an uncertainty period for awhile. Nobody wants to waste tax money but fire and police should not be short changed at all. Those people deserve the best as they put their lives on the line to protect lives and property and from the criminal pukes.
Gasoline engines in school buses all but disappeared about 15-20 years ago but BLUEBIRD is supposedly going to offer a FORD 6.8L V10 in the VISION. That would work fine in the bus since FORD is going to offer that proven beast in the F650 and F750 in '12.

[Jeremy]

I don't know about the States, but I am reliably informed that the Police here very often don't buy their cars at all - or at least the 'high profile' ones (pursuit cars, motorway patrols etc). I have friends in the traffic division of the local force, and they report that they are constantly getting freebies delivered to them from the various auto manufacturers 'for evaluation purposes'. Certainly you see a very wide variety of cars being used, many of them very flashy - the latest trend seems to be fully tricked-up Imprezas and Lancers for pursuit duty. The manufacturers no-doubt see it as a cheap way of getting respect and kudos for their product from the public - and as a tax payer I'm all for it.

Jeremy

[Gary '79 5C]

 Nobody wants to waste tax money but fire and police should not be short changed at all. Those people deserve the best as they put their lives on the line to protect lives and property and from the criminal pukes.

Tax money has been wasted for the last nine years. I really do not think a sleepy little shore town needs a mobile command center vehicle+ all the new/additional vehicles purchased with the "Terrorist" justification. I did get interviewed by FAA during 911 as my plane was on the OC tarmac, and they thought I could have been a problem. I see costly vehicles sitting same spot for years in Camden NJ, valve stem at 11:00.

You make a point, however there is a difference between a hardcore inner city and a seasonal, tourist destination barrier island, which I live full time. 15,000 pop. off season, possibly 140,000 - 150,000 during 9 or so weeks of the summer season. We have (64) full timers supplemented with as many during summer. Could not even get into a high speed chase during season, with traffic. Comparable communities have 1/2 to 1/3 the headcount, with a higher house value.

I do support first responders, police, fire fighters, However there must be vigilance in drawing a line.
I do not support the cop watching a YouTube video of a girl dancing on his CrownVic laptop, I saw at a red light the other day.....
I mentioned this, in a supportive manner, to the mayor whom I had breakfast with this AM.

Man, did we (I) get off topic. Sorry !!! What next Oil thread Discussion

Have a Great Evening,  Good Night downstairs Milton, where ever you are.

[RoyJ]

Police cars need to be 100% reliable.   That is the main reason they buy new ones.  I don't think it is image.  A Crown Vic looks basically the same if new or 80,000 miles.

But why wouldn't a modern car be unreliable at 80,001 miles? In fact, it should last atleast twice that much. I think this all comes down to: if you've got money (govt), why not spend it?

If anything, us busnuts are proof that with proper maintenance, and common sense, vehicles remain reliable for a LONG time.

[Lee Bradley]

'bout time to move this to "OT"

[Iceni John]

As for why most school districts these days buy disposabuses every few years, instead of keeping their buses for closer to their cost-effective useful lives, that's a whole different matter!   In California CARB is subsidizing districts to replace perfectly functional older Crowns and Gilligs with new buses, ostensibly to reduce pollution.   I wonder how much energy and raw materials are used, and pollution caused, to produce a new school bus compared with continuing to use an existing bus, even one with smoky engines (of course I'm not inferring that Detroits smoke, no, never . . .).   Some districts are resolutely keeping their old Crownigs, preferring them to fussy temperamental over-complicated new school buses from the Big Three.  As with most things, politics has usurped simple down-to-earth common sense.

John, proud to own part of California's heritage

[CrabbyMilton]

Great point and sadly it all fits into the stupidity known as government. If CROWN was still around and GILLIG was still in the sckoolie business, they could have built those buses the same way in terms of structure. That way these new '10 compliant engines would have been used and older buses could have been repowered with them. Yes it would have been costly too but you'd think it would have been cheaper than buy new "truck buses" to replace the ones they just threw out.

[Len Silva]

I don't think it's that simple.  School buses have a hard life.  Those particular buses and many others in this country are owned by for profit transportation companies.

They don't run them for the same reason that bus companies don't run 4104's, even though they are a much better engineered design than the new crop.  They just reach a point where it's not economical to build or maintain a bus of that caliber.

[belfert]

Someone here at Arcadia has a 1997 International school bus.  It was replaced due to the 10 year law in the state they bought it from.  It was an activity bus so it is geared a little higher.

In Minnesota we tend to have a lot of private school bus operators.  They turn over buses fairly often, but it may be due to rust.  They would probably run them longer if profitable to do so.