Battery desulfator for winter storage

[Chaz]

Hey guys,
  Sorry for the lapse in posting but it's hard enough to type with two fingers, let alone one now. I shattered my upper arm bone Mt.Biking.    Yeah, I still have "kid" in me.    I wasn't even getting stupid!!!!    I believe in having fun and staying in shape but I guess I need to be a little more careful. Blacksmithing (metal sculpture in general) is kinda hard with one arm. 

  Anyway, I have been wanting to buy a battery desulfator to hook up to my battery bank for the winter. I've heard they work well but , they are not all created equal. Jerry told me one time that building one was easy enough but I'm not in any shape to do that right now. So, I want to buy one.

Do any of you have any suggestions on which ones you feel are good or not so good? My ol' girl is a 24v but I was also interested in a 12v. I appreciate any info you might have.

Thanx a bunch,
   Chaz

p.s. I also might have some info for you all soon on foam mattresses. I'll keep ya posted with another thread when I know more.

[bevans6]

I'm curious as to why a de-sulfator is required or good for winter storage.  I tend to put mine on trickle-charge for a month in the middle of the winter season.  I'm getting enough of an investment in batteries to think that learning new tricks is pretty worthwhile!

Brian

[Jeremy]

I don't think winter storage is the issue specifically - I expect that Chaz simply means that now is a good time for him to have a go at desulphating a battery that has been abused previously.

I did as much research as I could, then bought a desulphator kit from these people:

http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/

Problem is that was months ago, and I haven't got around to building the kit yet, so I cannot report on the results. I knew at the time I should have bought the fully assembled version, but I'm just too cheap.

I bought the 'High Power 24v' version by the way. As I remember it the smaller version wasn't likely to make much impression on our type of large battery, and the fancy even-higher-output version seemed like too much money when I wasn't yet convinced about the whole concept

Jeremy

[boogiethecat]

I've got a whole outdoor shed dedicated to wet batteries ranging from T-105's up- for my bus , my burning man vehicles, and my solar projects.  I've usually got between 10 and 20 batts that need to sit around and not get used more than once or twice a year, and I need to keep them alive.
 I've read about desulphators for years, and thought about the theories... and then finally purchased more than one that looked to be the best of them... the results?

Using a smart charger that routinely equalizes on it's own (mine does it once a week) keeps batteries in top shape and never lets me down.

Every desulphator I tried resulted in a dead battery doomed for recycling.

Hands down, my FAVORITE charger, and the one that ALWAYS has kept my batteries happy for years on end is any of the PD intelipower series from Progressive Dynamics , WITH the charge wizard.  for some reason they figured it out where most other manufacturers have not... The only downside of these is that they are best used if built in to something, because their packaging isn't very portable...

The only other brand I've found that works about as well as the P.D. chargers is this one- JAC series from Shauer http://www.battery-chargers.com/chgrpic.htm
I actually like these better for a charger that you can carry around with big clips and charge batteries that are not built in to something.

Keeping sulphation out of the equation is all about keeping your batteries charged and equalized. As far as I'm concerned pulsers and ETDA are just a lot of snake oil.

Want to know a LOT about your batteries?? Read this.. it's really detailed...   http://www.batteryfaq.org/

FWIW....

[Jeremy]

Every desulphator I tried resulted in a dead battery doomed for recycling.

Are you suggesting that the desulphator actually killed the battery, or that it simply didn't help? (If it's the former then that's something which I'd never thought of - I figured the most I would be risking was the cost of the device, not the battery itself).

Was this just using the desulphator by itself, or using one in conjunction with a battery charger?


Jeremy

[boogiethecat]

Naw they didnt kill the battery directly, but looked at in a different way, yes.  I let the desulphator sit on three semi-sulphated batteries for a year and charged them only once in a while.  Their specific gravity never dropped lower than the lowest end of the green zone on the hydrometer, but it never got higher either.  They died soon thereafter.  Three other batteries that were in similar condition that sat constantly on the Intellipower and got equalized every week that year turned out quite happy and still are...
So while I don't think pulsers do any damage, I also think they don't do anything beneficial other than line the makers pocketbook.  Just my opinion though...

The one thing that's been an interesting way to desulphate batteries that I learned from a big battery company is to put them on a constant 5 amp current for 3-4 days.  You have to really watch out and keep them watered, and I learned the hard way to make sure there are no possible sparks around, because they really generate a LOT of hydrogen and heat in the process, but it really desulphates them pretty well if that batteries are in a condition that it's even possible.

Here's a photo of what happens if you screw up and allow a spark though.... what a mess it was !!!! meltdown...

[Jeremy]

Ok, thanks. On the three batteries I am trying to save, I have tried charging them for days on end with no obvious improvement in their duration, but I've only done this with a small trickle charger - just 2 amps I think. The two really bad batteries seem to be constantly boiling slightly even at this low current - this seems very strange, and I'm not sure what it means. I don't have a hydrometer yet with which to test them - I planned to get one once my desulphator was working.

I can see how forced boiling might encourage the sulphate to dissolve back into the electrolyte, so would be willing to give that a go in due course (and with suitable precautions).

The instructions with my desulphator advise using it in conjunction with a trickle charger in bad cases, in order to prevent the desuplhator itself flattening the battery and making the situation worse. Quite why the constant current from the charger doesn't interfere with the pulsing created by the desulphator I don't know.

Jeremy

[pvcces]

Jeremy, two out of three desulfators that we have bought have worked just fine. The remainder was made to make the seller money, as far as I am concerned.

Most of the desulfators that I have seen do not provide the power to keep them and the batteries up. For our good desulfators, I use a small maintenance charger such as a one amp for and 8D battery while desulfating the battery. I figure on three weeks for this setup.

If you connect a digital voltmeter to the battery and check it every few days, you will see the battery voltage gradually rise. When the voltage stops rising, that battery is desulfated as far as it's going to get.

If this is done once every three months, the battery should stay in good shape.

All bets are off if the cells are very different either in specific gravity or voltage. I don't even try these anymore.

The desulfator will work better if the batteries are done separately. on a big bank that stays connected, I just let it run most of the time.

We have around 30 batteries that we keep up. Occasionally, one gets a shorted cell and we get rid of it. All the replacements come from the battery scrap pile. We find that we can recover more than two batteries out of three that we use the desulfator on.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey

[Chaz]

Thanx guys.
Still kind of in the dark on this tho. (might be the pain meds. )

My understanding is that sulfation happens when a battery isn't fully charged. I try to keep that from happening but I'm by no means perfect. I have my house batteries managed by a Xantrex 4024 and it is also linked to the start batteries via another little electronic widget.

But, s--t happens and they will get discharged on occasion and to compensate for that, I thought I'd throw on a desulfator in the winter months when not in use. Plus, with 9 total vehicles, keeping batteries alive helps a lot. 

Thanx for the link Jeremy but I'd rather not have to pay shipping from UK if I don't have to. But I appreciate it. Oh, and you had ME pegged as to how and why I want one.

Thanx Boogie. I checked Shauer and will check PD. I'm also going to look over the link you sent. Looks like there could be some good info there.

Tom,
Does that mean you have bought SEVERAL desulfators?? Wow. My inquisitive mind is interested in why so many, if true? And, of course, which were the good ones??    I think it's cool that you can get batteries and save them for your own use! That would be awesome!! I appreciate you telling me of your experiences. Gives me hope. 

Chaz

[pvcces]

Chaz, we bought two from Pulsetech around five years ago and they have been working steadily ever since. Also, we bought one from Indonesia that carried the brand name of Sulfarid. The product by the name of Infintum looks just like what we bought, and it has done a first rate job.

We also bought several Solargizers and they work, but the power input from the tiny solar panel (4" square) is too small to be effective on anything larger than a car battery.

We bought a few others, but got poor to mixed results. If you want to know if one is running, just bring an AM radio close by. You will have no trouble hearing it.

The self switching feature that turns on only when charging works very well with a rarely used vehicle. You just hook it up and it will do the rest.

Good luck

Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska

[Iceni John]

We also bought several Solargizers and they work, but the power input from the tiny solar panel (4" square) is too small to be effective on anything larger than a car battery.

I bought two of the Sunforce 1.8 W "battery maintainer" solar panels last year, and connected them yesterday to my two 8Ds, one panel on each battery.   I've never had a problem with my batteries not starting the bus, even after a few months inactivity, but they are always completely isolated by the Cole-Hersee master switch when the bus is sitting.   Because my bus is in an RV yard without electricity available, I cannot use chargers or anything else that require 120 V AC.

Will they do any good, or are they just a gimmick on something the size of an 8D?

Thanks, John

[FloridaCliff]

I have been putting 1amp battery maintainer for about 7 years on my lawn mower over the winter.

Still have the same battery, before that replaced a battery at least every 2 years on the mower.

On the coach I have an automatic 3 stage charger that checks every 24 hours for SOC.  This stopped all of my battery issues when sitting for any length of time.

Worth every penny and money well spent in my opinion.

Cliff

[pvcces]

John, a charge of 1/10 of one amp will keep a health 8D battery up, from what I have seen. Your small charger might work.

I would suggest a voltmeter reading once in a while to find out if it is doing the job. If the battery gets up to a little over 13 volts, you will probably do alright.

For comparison, there are 15 watt solar panels sold for the same purpose. I understand that a charge of less than one amp could be fairly well tolerated by a big battery as long as you water it regularly.

Good luck.

Tom Caffrey