Why do I keep murdering start batteries?

[Jeremy]

HTR is right - you cannot decide anything about the condition of the batteries whilst they are still connected to the bus. It does sound like your wiring system is rather complex - not least because of the number of connections ("at least a dozen") on the batteries themselves - are many of these small-gauge wires going to individual accessories in the bus? If so, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing a manufacturer would do - more like a succession of owners or mechanics have added stuff to the bus in a very quick-and-dirty way. Worth taking the opportunity to re-wire things properly such that all 'minor' connections are made permanent within the loom itself, with the only removable connection being a single large cable to each battery post. Doing that alone might sort out your phantom load problem.

Once the batteries are out, don't rush into testing them before you are certain they have received a full charge - for instance, I'm wondering what 'quite a while' means in the statement "I charged the batteries at 10 amps for quite a while and then let them sit for 24 hours". If 'quite a while' means a few hours, that's probably not nearly enough time to charge a totally flat battery bank, especially if the bank was still connected to a substantial phantom load.

Your batteries might be toast - but give them a fair chance of proving otherwise first.

Jeremy

[belfert]

The wires coming off the batteries are all heavy gauge like they are factory connections.  The wiring diagrams shows a number of connections coming off the batteries.

I probably won't pull the batteries until this weekend and then charge them each individually. 

[robertglines1]

Auto zone here loans a load tester ,I think 100 dollar deposit till you bring it back.will tell you quickly if battery has a bad cell. must be seperated indivually (no cables) but you could leave in bus.One cell in one battery can kill bank.but if replaced the other should restore to use.

[Rick 74 MC-8]

Belfert

         Could you tap off where all those connections are now made and put a remote post in with only one connection to the batteries.  With a disconnect and wire of proper size. Then you could shut off all those feeds with one disconnect just a thought


                                                                                      Rick 74 MC-8

[Jeremy]

Belfert
         Could you tap off where all those connections are now made and put a remote post in with only one connection to the batteries.  With a disconnect and wire of proper size. Then you could shut off all those feeds with one disconnect just a thought
                                                                                      Rick 74 MC-8

Actually that's a really good idea - even if your wiring is standard, and Dina themselves did intend for there to be multiple connections to each battery, a modification such as Rick suggests may be very worthwhile. Knowing as we all do how even a single battery connection can corrode and develop a high resistance if not correctly assembled with petroleum jelly or similar, having multiple connections at each battery seems to me to be very bad practice. And, as Rick says, it will make it much easier to install a switch to completely isolate the batteries from all the bus systems

Jeremy

[Don4107]

You may already have this covered.  Just a suggestion.

Something that has not been covered in this thread is the possibility that improper charging could be contributing to your premature battery death.  Whether you revive your existing batteries or replace them I would carefully monitor what is happening as they charge.

Under charge could be contributing to them going down sooner that you expect.  Overcharge could also be killing them.

Another thing that has been mentioned is changing 1 battery at a time in a bank.  While it may be less expensive at the time it is often a false economy.  If you can pull a bad battery, or pair for 6 volts, from the bank and continue with what is left until you can replace the entire bank, it is a better way to go. 

Good luck

[Van]

Brian, just trying to help you cover all bases here, but as I recall you did some work on the dash board, trailer wiring, also you did have a little episode with your trailer axle. Just something to consider. Did you have a charging problem before starting any of these projects? Bottom line is first pull the Batts as I suggested to make sure they are up to snuff (charge and load test), start with the simple things first, then dig deeper if needed . Nothing worse that tearing everything apart to find out it was as simple as a batt plate that collapsed, just saying. good luck


   Van

[belfert]

The battery problems only started after I got home and didn't hook up my smart charger right away.  Everything was working just fine after doing all the work I did, but at that time I had the smart charger hooked up.

[HighTechRedneck]

The charger may have been handling the phantom drains and giving a little charge to the batteries.  Or it is a possible that one of the unswitched wires somewhere wore through its insulation during the trip and introduced a new drain.  Or it is possible that one of the batteries developed and internal problem during the trip.  In any case, the next step is the same as the one you are now planning.  Separate/isolate the batteries and charge each of them thoroughly and test them.  If you find a bad battery that is a probable solution.  If the batteries are good, them you will know to troubleshoot the wiring and consider how to address the phantom drains.

[Lin]

Have you used an ammeter to see what the draw is when everything is shut down or the disconnect switch is used?

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Something else that i just thought of and should be obvious, are they sealed or wet batteries? If wet, how often do you check them/fill them and with what?  If you let your batts get low on water that can kill them real quick, even just one cell being low a time or two can do it. If you fill them with anything other than distilled water that can do them in pretty quick too.

[belfert]

Good news:  I charged the batteries for 24 hours at 10 amps and the voltmeter was showing just over 24 volts.  The engine started without any hesitation at all.  I moved the bus from the driveway to its normal parking spot and hooked the smart charger back up.  We'll see how things look this weekend.  If the batteries are still good this weekend I probably won't touch the batteries until spring.  It is getting cold outside and I have lots of stuff to do to get the house ready for winter.

These are standard lead acid batteries that are supposed to be maintenance free.  You can get the caps off to check the water, but it wouldn't be easy as they aren't supposed to come off.

[Ace]

So after all this we can assume your NOT bringing yourself and your bus to Arcadia since you are parking it in the regular spot and won't touch the batteries until Spring?

I have the same batteries and even though the caps weren't meant to come off, they actually come fairly easy with a screwdriver. That's how I check my water and re-fill if and when necessary!

[buswarrior]

So, after wasting our time reading this, you aren't going to do anything?

And we'll get to write more in the spring? I think not...

It is your coach, you are master of it, make it do what you want!

Go back and do what Rick 74 MC8 told you to do: tie all those connections together with a suitable sized for amperage, commercially available terminal junction, wiring sorted according to voltage required and then feed them with a single cable from each of the the ground/12/24 volt sources.

We don't get smarter with age, we get stupider. On some battery change, or unrelated maintenance procedure, what will you do after you mix up the wires and feed 24 volts to some 12 volt computer?

Your choice, set it up for addled success or suffer the consequences.

Leave the Vanner attached directly to the batteries, three lines direct, and put two disconnects in the cables heading for your new 12 and 24 volt terminals. Vanner won't harm anything by itself. Mine has been directly connected at all times inside the system disconnects for years with no degradation in battery set voltage, sometimes in durations measured in months rather than weeks.

thanks for being a target this evening...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[belfert]

So after all this we can assume your NOT bringing yourself and your bus to Arcadia since you are parking it in the regular spot and won't touch the batteries until Spring?

I never said I'm not coming to Arcadia.  I'll pull the batteries if they don't maintain a charge for a few days.  If they maintain charge after several days I am not going to mess with them for now.

My regular spot is just off the end of my driveway on river rock.  It isn't like the bus is parked away some place where I can't take it to Arcadia.