Updated - Weigh Stations, help please....

[Busted Knuckle]

On the "no jake brake" laws I had a lawyer who loved fighting those tickets for me! Most times we never ever even had to appear. But if needed he did appear and the Judge would always get disgusted and throw it out of court when he would ask "since when is it legal for a community to outlaw a safety device that is designed to help large vehicle slow or stop while saving the main brake system from failure?"
Of course I didn't go around using my jakes just to rattle windows either, but if it was on a hill I did! (Like coming into Salt Lake City on I-80 right next to the country club and golf course!)
  BK 

[belfert]

North Dakota still doesn't allow retailers to operate from Midnight to Noon on Sundays.  A special exception was made during the 2009 flooding so Walmart and others could sell flood supplies 24 hours a day.

Wow I guess many fine folks in ND don't even know this as I used to live in Fargo (2 yrs and then I got my butt back down south where I belong and intend to stay!) and the Super Walmart was open 24/7 and never refused to sell me anything!

From everything I can tell North Dakota still has this law.  Walmart might use the exception for grocery stores to keep the grocery side of the store open 24/7.  I recall going up to Fargo to help with sand bagging and hearing them talk on the radio about the special exception to the Blue law so stores could be open Sunday morning to sell flood supplies.

Liquor laws are generally different than laws about general retailers.  Retailers can be open 7 days a week here in Minnesota, but liquor stores can't open on Sundays.

[MikeH]

North Dakota still doesn't allow retailers to operate from Midnight to Noon on Sundays.  A special exception was made during the 2009 flooding so Walmart and others could sell flood supplies 24 hours a day.

Wow I guess many fine folks in ND don't even know this as I used to live in Fargo (2 yrs and then I got my butt back down south where I belong and intend to stay!) and the Super Walmart was open 24/7 and never refused to sell me anything!

From everything I can tell North Dakota still has this law.  Walmart might use the exception for grocery stores to keep the grocery side of the store open 24/7.  I recall going up to Fargo to help with sand bagging and hearing them talk on the radio about the special exception to the Blue law so stores could be open Sunday morning to sell flood supplies.

Liquor laws are generally different than laws about general retailers.  Retailers can be open 7 days a week here in Minnesota, but liquor stores can't open on Sundays.

We go to Fargo quite often and almost all the stores we would want to go to are open. The mall is in full swing, Scheels (large sporting goods store) is open, most of the strip malls are open. If we are there on Sunday, it is in the afternoon, so I guess I don't know about the morning, we are in church. I think the only thing that is closed are the auto dealers and the liquor stores. We don't go to either, so I can't comment on them.

In Minnesota, I have found about the same: the auto dealers and repair shops and liquor stores are closed. I think probably the auto parts stores are closed, too, as the biggest part of their business is the auto repair shops, so their business is dried up, why stay open? I like that the auto dealers are closed because you can wander around and peak in the windows without a half dozen salespeople asking you if you want a test drive.

Mike

[John316]

DMDave,

Yes we do have DOT number, IFTA, inspection sticker, log book, daily pre-trip inspection logs, medical card, drug testing, every weigh station, yada, yada, yada. The whole nine yards.

I agree too much government. Oh well. The law is the law.

God bless,

John

[Jriddle]

This post is another one I have resisted from posting on and now I have to say.
We have rights right or wrong. If you use your bus for commercial use then Licence it for that. If you live in the gray area of the law then make them prove you need all this BS.

MY RANT
John

[justin25taylor]

I agree with the "No engine brake sign crap 100%" Most any bus I have driven the jakes are so quiet I doubt anyone would know they are even being used.

On to the topic at hand, weight stations:

As many of you know, I have a PRIVATE EAGLE MOTORHOME and I drive COMMERCIAL ENTERTAINER COACHES to buy groceries.
This question has always bothered me. It seems I cannot find out where or when I am supposed to stop. The following describes what I do. I am not 100% sure it is right, it is just what my experience tells me I should do.

If I am driving my Eagle motorhome I do not stop at any weight stations. If I am going through one of the "weigh in motion type things like in LA., I try to get in the left lane as to not set off the "enter weight station sign". I stop at border checks (no choice) and "produce checkpoints" (think California).
I used to stop, and was always told to "get out of here"
I have never been chased down by the guys at the station.

If I am driving a commercial entertainer coach, I usually do what the sign says. If it has the word BUS on it, I pull in. If it does not I pass it up. If I catch a "weigh in motion" and it says pull in, I do. When I pull in I usually get a green light. If they do come out to say anything it one of two questions. One is "Why did you stop?", the other is "Who are got on board?, any chance for a CD or T-shirt, photo, autograph, etc" They then ask why I stopped. I have never been given any trouble by stopping. I do everything I am supposed to do. Medical card, class A license with passenger endorsement, logbook, fuel permit (if applicable), etc. I try to keep a few autographed photos handy to give them just to avoid trouble. I do not mind a bit. These guys are working just like we do.
The only time I have been chased down is recently in Minnesota. As our friend who had the wreck learned, they are having a serious problem. I will detour the state if time permits. I absolutely hate Minnesota.

As a few others have mentioned I think the problem lies with entertainers registering their bus as a motorhome. There are numerous cost saving reasons to do this but it has given us a bad rap. A lot of the "drivers" are not really legal drivers. Just because you can drive a car does not make you a bus driver unless you have some training and the correct license and all the things that go with it.

I will say if you are driving your private converted bus, you should be able to do so without any flack from the law enforcement folks. Most of the bus-nut folks I have met keep their buses in better shape mechanically than most automobiles. They know their coach and how it works front to back, inside and out. They take an enormous amount of pride in their coach and keep it in top shape as best they can at all times.

I have another story I should not tell but I will not give the guys name:
This guy is may main employer. He uses 11-12 buses and several trucks on his tours. He leases all but his own bus from Hemphill Bros (they are all properly licensed commercial coaches). He registers his bus as a motorhome even though he makes about $500K-1M each night he works. He has been given trouble by DOT. They even came to his home one time. He told them it was his and his alone. He said nobody rides but me and my wife and driver and nobody was going to convince him any different. He said it was for his private personal use.
Well guess who won. His bus now has DOT numbers on the side and is sporting a Texas commercial inspection stcker now. 

I am not trying to claim I know it all and really, really hope this post comes across as my humble attempt to help. With all the mis-information out there, I doubt anyone really "knows it all" at this point

I always have an open ear on this problem we have, especially with our own buses. Any more info would be great!

Best,
Justin

[John316]

Okay guys, I know this is very old, but I wanted to give you all an update.

Our bus is now a commercial outfit. It has been a huge pain. The bottom line is, if you are selling anything, you must be commercial (MikeH, this is something for you to consider). It turns out that if you are simply transporting your own goods to sell for yourself, you must be a private carrier.

Then you must keep logs, maintenance records, drug testing, inspections, CDL, health card, weigh stations, fuel tax, and the list goes on and on.

Once again, from what we have found, if you carry anything to sell, you must be commercial.

RickB, I would like to thank you for bringing this to our attention. Just so you know you didn't have to wreck your bus for us, but thanks anyways 

God bless,

John

[MikeH]

... The bottom line is, if you are selling anything, you must be commercial ... It turns out that if you are simply transporting your own goods to sell for yourself, you must be a private carrier....

John,

These sentences seem to contradict each other. If you sell books, are you not selling them for yourself? If you collect junk and take it to a swap meet, are you not selling it as a private individual? Where do you draw the line? Can you clarify this a little for us?

Thanks,
Mike

[Sean]

... If you sell books, are you not selling them for yourself? If you collect junk and take it to a swap meet, are you not selling it as a private individual? Where do you draw the line?

The exact same place the IRS does.

If you buy books to read, read them, and then sell them at a garage sale, you are selling your own personal property.  If you buy books in bulk, or odd lots, or on eBay, and then take them to swap meets just to sell them, in order to make a profit, then you owe income tax on the profit and it is a commercial enterprise.

Lot's of people selling stuff for profit on eBay, for example, have been doing so illegally for years, and the IRS is finally catching up to them.  eBay just notified everyone that they will now be reporting sales numbers to the IRS, due to a change in the reporting rules that takes effect on January 1.

If you go to the flea market every month and have a booth there, it won't be long before everyone knows you are a vendor and not some guy selling off his lifetime collection of personal possessions.  And that makes you commercial in the eyes of the law, whether that's for tax purposes or motor vehicles.

As has already been beaten to death here, lots and lots of people get away with noncompliance, sometimes for decades, but that does not change the legality of it.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

[HighTechRedneck]

I believe the "Private Carrier" that John mentioned was just the class within the Commercial license, as opposed to a "For Hire Carrier".  Both require the commercial DOT registrations and a CDL.  Difference is whether you haul inventory owned by you or your company or are in the business of hauling cargo for others.

http://www.tislimited.com/miscellaneous_terminology.php

[John316]

MikeH, I am sorry, let me clarify. I get so used to using the "lingo" that I forget others don't know.

Mike(HTR) is also right. You still have to be commercial, and all of that. However, there are a couple of different rules if you are simply a "private carrier." You still are commercial, but you are "private" in the fact that I can't contract for you to deliver my goods to the next state. I ONLY carry my materials to sell, not anybody else's.

However, I think it would be different if I go to a flea market (I have nothing to sell, and I am just going). I am wearing a nice leather coat, and a gent says he wants a coat just like that one, and offers me $300 for it. I don't believe that would qualify (but there shouldn't be any decision made based on my advice).

That is why on our bus we have our DOT number, and all of that stuff, and a part that says "not for hire." Does it help us? I don't know. Do I feel better having put that on? Yes I do.

And Sean, yes they are cracking down on those kind of infringements. They need money, so they start with the easy stuff.

HTH

God bless,

John

[MikeH]

John, Mike, & Sean,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm trying to learn as much about this as I can so when a bus comes into our lives we are ready to do it right the first time. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse deader (if that is a word), just trying to use this discussion to glean as much helpful info as possible. Thanks for your patience and willingness to share your knowledge and experience.

Mike