Inverter problem No AC working?

Dave5Cs · October 02, 2010, 05:22:47 PM

Sorry for the long Post but I am at a loss?

Anyone want to venture a guess. We have a MC5C. We have been converting to go full time soon. In working on it I have been plugged into the Garage and have been able to use everything electrical AC and DC. Hadn't been able to unplug and use anything off JUST the Batteries because they were killed by non use and no charge for 2 years before we bought it. We figured when the time came we would buy new batteries and put them in and should be able to dry camp etc. off them.

Inverter is a 5 year old big black and ugly Heart Interface Freedom 20. Has a 25 amp fuse and an n Off switch on end. Doesn't seem to make any difference if it is in on or off position. Have a Remote panel on the wal for it also.

Pro Mariner Charger 24/30
Vanner 60-2A Voltmaster Input 20-35V DC output 50 MV, says Current max limited to 20 Amp Breaker

I finally went to Battery store Friday and bought 4 new US 2200 deep cycle batteries, hook them up like the other ones in Series and parallel after cleaning, priming and painting the compartment.

I unhooked from the garage box and the remote on the wall went dark but I noticed the DC lights Refrig, stove lite etc. But no AC lights work or AC plugs either. They all did when plugged in to the garage power. I turned the Inverter remote on and didn't here the Inverter fan and the Remote LED 's were lighting up the AC then Overload back and forth and the inverter light was not blinking which was usual for it. Normally the Inverter and AC lights were on and then the Battery DC lights to show how much was used up etc.

I traced the wires to make sure they were all hook up and they are, from the batteries to the inverter. From the inverter to the AC circuits through the transfer box where all come into and go out to breakers, Generator etc. But still no AC upstairs.

I hear the inverter kick in when we are hooked to house power but when unhooked no noise for it. But DC circuits come on and I think are running from batteries with no inverter?

Don't know where to go from here. Is the Inverter shot or gone but then why is it working when plugged in and not working when disconnected?

Any idea would be appreciated.

Thanks Dave

RickB · October 02, 2010, 05:58:22 PM

First off are they 6 or 12 volt batteries? That will determine whether you are in series or parallel.

There should be a really big fuse in between the positive battery terminal and the positive connection to the inverter. I have blown one of them once. You can get them at Marine supply places alot cheaper than anywhere else. They are somewhere around 200-300 amp fuses.

Hope it helps

rick

Dave5Cs · October 02, 2010, 06:41:02 PM

Riceep Cyclek

They are 4- 6 volt, they are as previously wired in Series and parallel, US 2200 and yes there is a big fuse between an it is not blown?
Dave

Dave5Cs · October 02, 2010, 06:44:35 PM

Quote from: Dave5Cs on October 02, 2010, 06:41:02 PM
Rick;

They are 4- 6 volt, they are as previously wired in Series and parallel, US 2200 and yes there is a big fuse between an it is not blown?

Dave

Sean · October 02, 2010, 07:07:10 PM

Dave,

There could be any of a dozen reasons why things are not working.

When you are plugged in to AC power, the inverter is not inverting, it is merely passing the loads through to the incoming AC. Depending on how the inverter and external transfer switch (if any) are wired, this might tell you that you have AC coming in to the inverter, but not much more than that.

As a first step, I suggest disconnecting the loads from the inverter before starting it up, and see if it comes up normally and starts providing AC power. Then turn off all branch circuit breakers and reconnect the load main breaker, and if that works, switch the branch circuits on one at a time. Based on your description, you may well have a simple overload that just needs to be tracked down.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

bobofthenorth · October 02, 2010, 07:26:41 PM

Assuming the guts of a Freedom 20 are similar to those on a Freedom 25 there are 4 really big mechanical relays inside there. When they get old they can stick. What I was told to do with mine is give the case a moderately hard smack when that happens. I didn't like that as a longterm solution so I had a nice man by the name of John Ashton change them out for me but I did have to smack mine a couple of times before he changed the relays.

Dave5Cs · October 02, 2010, 07:40:56 PM

Sean;
Yes there is An External Transfer switch it is mounted on the other side of the coach in the bay next to the generator compartment. That answers my 1st question, why the inerter was coming on when plugged in. I remember you say a ways back that when you were plugged in theat you would connect the plugs together and not use the inverter.

So I will try unplugging and see if all works and then track down each branch. Thanks will let you know if that finds anything.

Ok Bobofthrnorth,
while I like your idea of Whacking the box to un-stick the relay, Me thinks I will open unplugged big blackbox and see if I can test rely for a click first before giving it a whack! But if all else fails hey who knows? I did start out a a Carpenter and do have lots of bi and bigger hammers,LOL

Thanks Guys Dave

Dave5Cs · October 03, 2010, 02:29:25 PM

Sean;
This morning I hooked up to Garage power and all ran great on AC, again switched the panel to AC inverter and all was OK AC and DC. Inverter I think was not on but the fan was on after I used Bob's advice and thumped it. It had only been buzzing then the fan came on. I think the charger is coming on which is good. No overloads light on.

Then disconnected from house Turned the remote panel off and pulled plugs at inverter and tested for current. There was none at twist lock plugs and no fan coming on when. No Ac of course at any plugs or lights, but all DC things work.

When I turn the panel on the panel it unhooked nothing but with it hooked back up again overload blinks and inverter light is lit but still no AC. Tried turning off all branches and no change and then turning each one on and no change.

Have to go to help someone move into Mobile home for a few hours but will check back afterwards. thanks
I am wondering if there is another fuse somewhere or maybe the inverter is just old and done?

There is a 3 1" disks that are together between the Big positive cable from the last terminal to a block and the big positive cable the goes to the inverter is that maybe some kind of fuse that could be gone. Can't see into it It seemed to let current through when I ran a continuity check on it.

Dave

Frank @ TX · October 03, 2010, 03:02:43 PM

Dave,
Why do you have the inverter going to the transfer swich ??
The transfer switch should move the power from the pole to the house OR from the gen to the house.
Again , why is the inverter involved with the transfer switch ?
Frank

Sean · October 03, 2010, 03:10:24 PM

Quote from: Dave5Cs on October 03, 2010, 02:29:25 PM
Then disconnected from house Turned the remote panel off and pulled plugs at inverter and tested for current. There was none at twist lock plugs and no fan coming on when. No Ac of course at any plugs or lights, but all DC things work.

When I turn the panel on the panel it unhooked nothing but with it hooked back up again overload blinks and inverter light is lit but still no AC. Tried turning off all branches and no change and then turning each one on and no change.

I am having trouble following you here.

Are you saying that the overload light starts blinking immediately after disconnecting the shore power, or some other time?

What do you mean by "turned the remote panel off"?

Quote
There is a 3 1" disks that are together between the Big positive cable from the last terminal to a block and the big positive cable the goes to the inverter is that maybe some kind of fuse that could be gone. Can't see into it It seemed to let current through when I ran a continuity check on it.

I don't think the Freedom will run at all without DC power, so I don't think this is a DC fuse problem.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

bobofthenorth · October 03, 2010, 04:10:57 PM

Did the "buzzing" stop when the fan came on? If so it sounds like a stuck relay. I expect Sean knows this already but I'll mention it anyway - there's a switch on the front of my Freedom 25 that has to be shut off in order for the remote panel to work. I assume the 20 would be similar.

Sean · October 03, 2010, 06:07:49 PM

I want to focus on the blinking overload light. On the Freedom series this means that an overload or overtemp condition has caused the inverter to shut down, requiring a manual restart. I'd like to start at the inverter and work outwards to track down the overload. I don't think this problem is related to the remote panel, but I've missed guesses before...

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

Dave5Cs · October 03, 2010, 06:46:06 PM

Sean and Bob yes I do have the switch on off at front of inverter

Sean yes when I disconnect from our house the remote panel starts blinking overload and not getting any reading through or noises from Inverter. Plug it back in and the thing comes alive and the fan comes on only when the remote switch in in the on position? I tried to put pictures in but can't seem to get them in on this board but I will post them on the other for you soon.

Dave

Dave5Cs · October 03, 2010, 07:23:02 PM

Frank ,
Yes when the fan comes on it stops buzzing. I posted picture on the other boards because I just can't seem to get them through here.
Dave

Dave5Cs · October 05, 2010, 09:44:38 AM

Frank:
Heard from another person who has a Freedom 25 that they are the same pretty much as the 20 and they said theirs on their Boat did what mine is doing. One time the charger stopped working and another time the inverter stopped working. Both time they opened up the case and it was like you said the relays ad to be replace. 2 out of four had the legs melted.

They also blew the big fuse at the fuse block at the batteries and the same thing happened as is with mine like Rick was saying.

Am going to do another test on the fuse after taking it out. Then I will open case and check for any melted stuff etc at relays, Because I am not getting any juice out of it inverter wise when not plugged to garage. It does charge the batteries tough when cord is hooked to garage.

Sean,
did check all circuits but no overload problems but did find black burn mark on wall behind panel that makes me wonder and rubber shield on incoming cable that someone put 2 inches of thick heat shrink on as if there was a big overload or blunder someone made before I got it.

Dave