4104's

[happycamperbrat]

Good Luck Art!! You truely have heart  Please do video tape it all!!

[Kevin]

As Gus said, all you need is a bit of a running start.

If the RPM's fall-off, you're dead. You'll stop (like it or not!) and either back to the bottom - or needlessly smoke your clutch - and then back to the bottom. 

You mention revising your driveway entry a bit. Do it in a way that will prevent your bashing the under-the-front-bumber apron during transition to the driveway incline. In other words, make for the smoothest possible transition from road-to-driveway incline. Then, with as much head start as possible, foot-to-floor a' blowin' mass smoke and a "not-takin'-NO-for-an-answer" attitude, wheel 'er on up. You should be fine. The coach could care less as long as you're not slipping the clutch or bouncing the living poo out of the suspension.

As mentioned in another thread, I once regrettably subjected my '04 to some seriously brutal terrain and inclines, all off-road, the worst of which included first having to drop into a severely undercut sandwash, plowing the 75' across with foot to floor in 1st, rear tires spinning (honest to God, as I could feel the rear of the bus slightly "fishtailing" as it fought for traction in the very soft and deep sand) and then (Ouuuuch!!!) bashing into the opposite "wall" in order to keep the RPM's up enough to pull what seemed (at midnight) a near vertical incline.

My then 13 year old daughter Sarah and friend Monica, seated on the sofa, actually banged their heads on the ceiling upon "impact". My wife Kathryn was white-knuckling it, swearing under her breath in the copilot's chair. I was literally sick to my stomach, visions of a Chinook helicopter lift-out in my near future. 

The "road" dead-ended at a massive crevice. Luckily there was room to turn around so we could do it all over again in reverse. We were pulling the motorcycle trailer and both bikes were lying on their sides, but luckily hadn't bounced completely out!

I wondered how the air bags ever held, and noticed the next morning (when it was light) that I'd crumpled the apron under the front bumper. That misadventure occurred many years and many, many miles ago, however, and the bus still runs and drives perfectly. I did have a thorough look at the undercarriage, including both front and rear suspensions after the misadventure.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that it'll probably do it - just as long as you can get a bit of a run at it. Say, would you like for me to drive yer brand-new toy up yer driveway for ya?! Heh, heh, heh!!!   I'm a real good driver!

[gus]

Kevin has a good point about the incline. I've never had a problem with the front but the rear is a different story.

I have to cross a small creek to get to my house and more than once I've dragged my trailer hitch receiver on the creek bottom. I built up the bottom of the incline with some crushed limestone to solve that problem but it is still pretty close.

The only good part of this is that the trailer hitch saves my exhaust pipes from being demolished, I have enough problem keeping them tight as it is without dragging them.

A 4104 is LOW.

You cannot afford to bounce the bus at the incline because it will drag and hit hard, the incline must be smooth at the bottom to avoid this. My incline is so short I don't need any extra speed to make it.

[artvonne]

  I should be able to stretch the entrance out along the road farther, that will ease the transition. I tried to post a pic the other day but it came out to white for some reason, i'll have to try again. Anyway, from up the road it looks more like a runaway truck ramp than it does a driveway, lol. If I can grade it back far enough I should be able to hit the drive with the Bus wound out tight in first. If it can make the 18% part without slowing down too much, I shouldnt have any trouble making it to the 12% part. Time will tell.

[Mex-Busnut]

/quote] BTDTHTS! And WDIA (will do it again!)

Excuse my ignorance: What is the meaning of "BTDTHTS"?   I went to http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php and did not find it.

Thanks in advance!

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico

[Nusa]

/quote] BTDTHTS! And WDIA (will do it again!)

Excuse my ignorance: What is the meaning of "BTDTHTS"?   I went to http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php and did not find it.

Thanks in advance!

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico

BTDT = Been There, Done That
BTDTGTTS = BTDT Got The T-Shirt
BTDTHTS = BTDT Have The Shirt

Google search probably would have got the answer for you...but I didn't have to look it up.

[Mex-Busnut]

BTDT = Been There, Done That
BTDTGTTS = BTDT Got The T-Shirt
BTDTHTS = BTDT Have The Shirt
Google search probably would have got the answer for you...but I didn't have to look it up.
[/quote]
Thanks for enlightening me! Believe it or not, I DID put BTDTHTS in Google and did not find the answer.

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico

[RJ]

Art -

Some points of clarification on my comments are in order:

1.  Roads & Grades.  I wasn't starting some type of contest.  I simply was pointing out the difference between the short, steep grades that are common east of the Mississippi River, compared to the long steep grades found from the Rockies to the Pacific.  That's why I affectionately call eastern mountains "speed bumps."

2.  Clutch engagement.  I know perfectly well how to do a Dead Throttle Start with a coach - I taught school bus and charter bus drivers how to do it.  And I taught them how to do it without spilling the red wine, too.  What I should have clarified is that it takes more than forty feet to get the coach rolling and up to the governor in first gear.  Oops!

3.  Mercedes fuel mileage joke.  Which is what it was, albeit w/ a little bit of truth behind it.  Over the last 10 -12 years that I've been participating on these discussion boards, time and time again I've seen a newbie come on and start asking lots of questions, and often complaining about the "poor fuel economy" of a bus.  Either that, or they want to know how they can go from 5 mpg to 10 mpg in a forty-foot, 18-ton vehicle @ 70 mph.  So the reason for the joke is to bring a little bit of reality to the discussion, because the biggest expense operating these beasts is fuel.  When that sinks in, some newbies finally accept that fact, others simply "disappear" from the forums, never to be heard from again.  So it was a humorous attempt at a reality check, that's all.  Was not, in any sense, meant to flame.


Now that that's out of the way, I think your focus on getting the slope of the drive revised with the help of the local infrastructure folk is a good one.  Then all you'll need is one of the really nice 4104's that are out there and available, and you're good to go!  I think I mentioned in the other thread that the '04 was the workhorse of the industry during the 50's and 60's, with a well-deserved reputation of being virtually indestructible with decent preventative maintenance.  5065 of them were built between 1953 > 1960, the most of any highway coach until the MC-9 came along.  They're a good choice for those who aren't in a hurry (Aesop's Fable again), not to mention their virtually timeless, classic look.  At least those that haven't been capped front and rear, anyway!  (LOL!) 

Good luck on your search for one!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[artvonne]

   RJ.

   I do cherish your opinions, even if I dont want to accept them at the time. Just dont gloat if it proves I cant drive the darn thing up my driveway. I think I can, but its iffy. Hmmmm, what would a shot of propane do for a 671??

  That will be the next part, finding a good one at a decent price that isnt on the opposite side of the country with an owner that isnt tough to deal with. Probably have time to work on the driveway. LOL.

[happycamperbrat]

Possibly a shot of propane for the bus and a shot of burbon for you?

[Kevin]

Hey RJ, in reference to your last post,

I "capped" my '04 front end, only it was under the bumper!!! (LOL!) Put a pic or two of my coach up on the gallery couple of days ago. The damage done to the under-bumper apron is actually minimal, and not really even noticeable in the photos (and to date, not repaired, either) but it still breaks my heart. I really do love this bus. Driving it (when I'm not bashing the poo out of 'er!) is like therapy for me. 

Only abused her the once, and definitely learned from the experience, poor Baby! It does remarkably well off-road as long as one balances adequate engine RPM/vehicle momentum with careful negotiation of desert-y off-road obstacles such as whoop-de-do's, sand washes, rocks and etc. I also try to minimize passenger-side-to-driver's-side body 'twist' while encountering the extreme camber changes which inevitably occur. If one is very careful and takes one's time, she'll get there in one piece, no worse for wear and tear.

I feel the love that so many of you folks have for this worthy bus, and smile to myself reading all the supportive opinions. I wouldn't trade 'er for another, but then she truly suites my particular needs. We were made for each other!

Cheers!

[artvonne]

Put a pic or two of my coach up on the gallery couple of days ago.

 Nice looking Bus Kevin, wouldnt even know you went boonie bashin if you hadnt said.

 Has anyone come across a 4104 with a 4 cyl GM diesel driving the OTR air conditioner, one diesel fuel tank, AC engine also driving a generator? Supposedly this is all original???  Also may have the rare high speed axle, says 80-85 mph is "no problem". Plausible??

[TomC]

The 4104's A/C came 3 different ways.  Most popular was a Continental 4 cylinder gasoline engine powering the A/C.  Later they went with a Perkins 4-108 Diesel to power the A/C.  The last models had the same set up as the 4106 powering the A/C off the engine-but few were made this way since the 6-71 didn't have an over abundance of extra power-unlike the 8V-71 in the 4106 where you barely felt it when the A/C was on.  Good Luck, TomC

[gus]

Art,

You're missing the point about the 671 and clutch. Making the 671 more powerful by any means will only result in destroying the clutch quicker.

The problem is lack of low speed gearing and torque, not power. The 2-stroke DDs have very little low speed torque unless geared very low. Cummins, DD 4-strokes and Cat engines all have high low speed torque and would probably make your grade with no problem. 2-strokes are different animals and depend on higher speed for power, just like chain saws and leaf blowers.

High engine speed when the clutch is engaged while stopped means burned out clutch.

The proper way to start any stopped diesel is to engage the clutch at idle and accelerate after engagement. Unfortunately this only works well on level or downhill ground. This is not so with clutches on gasoline engines which can be slipped without great harm.

[artvonne]

Art,

You're missing the point about the 671 and clutch. Making the 671 more powerful by any means will only result in destroying the clutch quicker.

  I think you misunderstood what I meant,  I probably said it wrong.

  What I meant was, if I am already headed up a steep grade on the governor, and the Bus slows down from lack of power (torque), because the grade is too steep for the available power, if I had a slight boost in power I wouldnt slow down, or, maybe wouldnt slow so much I couldnt make it over the top.

  I wasnt going to try starting out on a steep grade, I am trying to maintain speed (power) on the grade.