propane injection

[JohnEd]

Reading some of the hype doing this would get you a net payback equal to the cost of the propane you burned.  It would give you better MPG from the D because it promotes better/more complete combustion.  Now propane has far less energy than D but it costs considerably less per gallon so wouldn't this be worth doing?  Fuel tax comes to mind as a question.

What do the experts say?  I think the answer might be in that I hear of nobody doing this.

Thanks,

John

[kyle4501]

. . . .
What do the experts say?  I think the answer might be in that I hear of nobody doing this.

Ya think?

[buswarrior]

Some have used it, they'll chime in.

The limiter seems to be oxygen.

You need it to burn, no matter if you are burning diesel or propane.

If there is black smoke, there's already more fuel than air to burn it in, adding another fuel won't change what the injectors squirt in there.

Adding a small "smog turbo" might be better use of funds, so that the negative effects of altitude may be reduced in a naturally aspirated engine?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[TomC]

For many years, Diesels have been run with Propane, Natural Gas, Methane, Sewer Gas, etc, since all gases are flammable (need a flame or spark to ignite them).  Whereas Diesel is combustible (needs heat to ignite it).  Commonly called a dual fuel engine, Diesel fuel is used as a "spark plug" to fire off the flammable gas.  Many use propane as a way to get additional horsepower out of the engine also.  If still using Diesel fuel as the main fuel and just adding propane as an additional source of power, I would keep the propane addition to 10% of Diesel burn.  Good Luck, TomC

[DMoedave]

What Tom Sez! We looked and studied this for possibel power for our old 4-71. (we had a engine swap done instead)  It does add power and is used for climbing hills etc. As far as making economical sense it apparently doesent. Search the archives on both boards and you will get some answers,opinions and some real world experience and advice.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

So what is a "smog turbo" ?  and how would it be plumbed in?

[Frank @ TX]

Hi John,
A 2 stroke compresses the air from the turbo and blower and sends it deep into the engine block.
If you use propane , these "air"  channels would be filled with a framable mixture of air and propane.
I would not do that to any 2 stroke I own.  The chance of igniting the mixture when the air is pushed into the cylinder is too much for me.  Sometimes there is unburned carbon still glowing in the cylinder from the last power stroke when the air is shot in.  Think  KABOOM
Frank

[JohnEd]

What Tom Sez! We looked and studied this for possible power for our old 4-71. (we had a engine swap done instead)  It does add power and is used for climbing hills etc. As far as making economical sense it apparently doesent. Search the archives on both boards and you will get some answers,opinions and some real world experience and advice.

I searched for subjects on "propane" and got a message "no posts found".  That has to be bogus.  Yours was sage advice, however.  I often don't do that because I forget or because the stuff in the archives doesn't seem current or I suspect there might b a new crop of commenters.  I think your post fits the later.

When I hear "that's not possible" or "really bad idea" or "never been done" I rarely feel the issue is closed.  Particularly if I am looking at evidence that somebody is doing it with success. I value you answer highly....Studied the subject...... only technically feasible....makes no economic sense.  Great answer, if it is out there.

I think someone that has tried to get more power out of a small engine is likely to have turned over every rock.

Thank you for your comment/answers.  Hopefully it will turn up in the future on a search for the topic.  The board and mods are superb in their function, however.

John

PS:  If ya think your appreciated...the answer is yes.

[JohnEd]

Hi John,
A 2 stroke compresses the air from the turbo and blower and sends it deep into the engine block.
If you use propane , these "air"  channels would be filled with a flammable mixture of air and propane.
I would not do that to any 2 stroke I own.  The chance of igniting the mixture when the air is pushed into the cylinder is too much for me.  Sometimes there is unburned carbon still glowing in the cylinder from the last power stroke when the air is shot in.  Think  KABOOM
Frank

Frank,

That was my first reaction way back when.  Standby D emergency gens runs off nat gas, buses in this burg run of LNG and I think they are D engines at their heart also.  The "propane " injection system is being sold by one outfit I read up on.  So the question of "can it be done" has been answered.  Are their additional issues on safety?  I think you are right again.  I think the core answer is "you don't get sufficient return on your investment".

Thanks for your answer of caution.  Especially when blowing my fool head off is a possible outcome.  Or another Knut that might read.

John

[Utahclaimjumper]

Same old thing,,,,the people with the LEAST knowledge and "never done it" are doing all the talking.>>>Dan

[Lin]

John,

I have looked into it but have not followed through.  From what I got, it works much better with a turbo but may give some 7-10% boost without one.  There are ways to do it cheaply, but I would not be looking for fuel economy as much as an on-demand power boost.  I know that there are many that are pessimistic about it but have spoken to some that have done it, one was on an 8v71, that thought it was great.  I would not consider the case closed until I have actually experimented a bit myself.

[JohnEd]

Same old thing,,,,the people with the LEAST knowledge and "never done it" are doing all the talking.>>>Dan

Dan,

I have sent you a PM on this post.

Thanks,

John

[Dreamscape]

John, I used the search on the tab, upper left and got over 70 pages. You might try that.

I just typed in propane and that's what I got.

Paul

[JohnEd]

Now here is some news.  Had I used the other search I could have saved my breath...mostly.

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12898.0 has almost all the information as published by UtahClaimJumper and he has an operational system and seems to know where all the bodies are buried. 

Clifford even mentions that he has a friend that uses the system and is well pleased with the additional power.  Clifford is smart enuf that if he repeats a lie it is probably gospel.  Was that clear?

Seems, in that thread at least, that nobody that has done it finds any fault.  Don Fairchild even has he system on his pick-up and he gives his judgment call.

That thread is a year old so no wonder I forgot it.  I am having trouble with what happened at breakfast.

Thanks all,

John

[Lin]

John,

I think that Utah's info is very relevant for us natural aspirated guys.  It is a whole different game with turbo.  I think that Don F. had said that he put it on his turbo diesel dually pickup to see what would happen and did find that it added noticeable horsepower.  He doesn't use it though since he can spin the back wheels without it.  Don likes seeing what he can get from an engine.  He built one for his project eagle that had some amazing horsepower, but he is not sure how he would be able to keep it cool.