Red light camera

[Jeremy]

How exactly do speed cameras work?  I know they have them all over in Britian.  If one is going 56 MPH in a 55 MPH zone would I automatically get a ticket?

I've seen websites that show speed cameras destroyed by vandals.  There have to be some pretty angry folks out there to so some of the damage I have seen.

There isn't a set margin above the speed limit at which cameras are triggered - it varies from camera to camera - which is the sensible way of doing it if you think about it since using the same margin everywhere would merely become a de-facto change in the speed limit.

What is pre-set by the law is a 'margin for error' when applying speed limits, to accommodate inaccuracies in the target vehicle's speedometer; I'm pretty sure that this is 8% - I have heard of people setting their cruise control to include the extra 8% by using the (accurate) GPS speed shown by their sat nav system.

The fine is only a nominal amount, but the reason people get angry about speed cameras is because getting caught by one four times in a year means you lose your licence for a period, which can mean you lose your job and everything else that goes with it. Being caught can be embarrassing too; I was once caught by a camera whilst in a company car on company time, and had to explain exactly why I wasn't where I should have been that day...

People also often believe that they have been caught 'unfairly' by speed cameras, if for instance the camera was behind a tree or around a corner, or they were in an unfamiliar area and didn't know the speed limit - hardly a valid excuse of course, but that doesn't stop people feeling hard-done-by. The cameras used to be painted grey, but to reduce the 'unfairness' factor they are now painted bright yellow and have lots of warning signs telling you they are there before you reach them, with their locations programmed into sat nav systems etc. But all that means is that people naturally just slow down briefly whilst going past the cameras, then immediately speed up again - hence the increasing use of average speed cameras.

Jeremy

[lily]

It is true that it is my job to defend myself but, if the quaint innocent-until-proven-guilty thingy applies...

Constitutional protections are not 'quaint'.  They always apply, even if they are sometimes abused by people in authority.

If the camera is set to take a picture of you entering the intersection after the light turns red, it is not the same as the camera taking a picture of you merely being in the intersection when the light turns red.

'merely being in the intersection when the light turns red' is a (different, separate) crime as described by the aforementioned California state law. Do not enter intersections you cannot completely clear.

Lily

[Len Silva]

About two years ago, someone I am close to was hit by a red light runner.  They are now permanently disabled, cannot work, deeply in debt, and involved in multiple lawsuits.

So yes, I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who will run a light, whatever their silly excuse.

If it were up to me, I would replace red light cameras with spike strips that pop up into the road when the light turns red.

[kyle4501]

About two years ago, someone I am close to was hit by a red light runner.  They are now permanently disabled, cannot work, deeply in debt, and involved in multiple lawsuits.

So yes, I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who will run a light, whatever their silly excuse.

If it were up to me, I would replace red light cameras with spike strips that pop up into the road when the light turns red.

Why not simply add a little more warning - longer yellow & flash before changing?
Also increase the fine & points for running the light! If there is plenty of time/ warning before the red, there is no excuse for not stopping. (Yes, reasons will still be abundant, but there is a distinct difference between a reason & excuse.)

[HighTechRedneck]

About two years ago, someone I am close to was hit by a red light runner.  They are now permanently disabled, cannot work, deeply in debt, and involved in multiple lawsuits.

So yes, I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who will run a light, whatever their silly excuse.

If it were up to me, I would replace red light cameras with spike strips that pop up into the road when the light turns red.

I can understand your feelings.  I am the same way about those who drive intoxicated, or even after "a couple drinks", for a similar reason.  When I was fresh out of high school a close friend was killed by a drunk driver.

But one thing I think bears distinction is the difference between still being in the intersection after it turns red and entering it after it is clearly red.  Both are a violation.  But only the latter leads to accidents unless the other driver jumps their green light or isn't paying attention.  And I would definitely have to say that there isn't anybody here, especially those that have driven a truck, bus or RV, that can honestly say they have never still been in an intersection after the light was red.

[Dreamscape]

I was a passenger in a car several years ago. It was in the early am, and we were driving the posted speed limit. We had the green light and proceeded through the intersection. A car traveling at least 60 mph in a 30 posted zone hit us broadside. I was thrown out of the car, was not pretty. The cop told us he heard the collision several blocks away it was so loud. Red light camera or not, he would have run the light.

Some people just don't pay attention no matter what. Texting, drinking coffee, talking on the cell phone, you name it. You can put up cameras at each intersection and someone will always try to outrun the light. It's a fact of life.

Blinking amber lights seem to help, but even then, someone will try to ourrun it. Cameras will not stop the problem, only people driving properly will.

It's just another way for revenue, in my humble opinion.

I sure wish someone would solve this OP question, so we can talk buses!

Paul

[Len Silva]

Most everyone here is a safe driver, we care about doing it right.  The biggest concern seems to be safely stopping when the light turns yellow.  It can be difficult to do the instantaneous computation of "how far am I from the stop line" and "how fast am I going"? It can get harder as we get older.

Now, as I understand it and as clearly explained for the new cameras coming to St Pete, you will only be charged if you cross the line after the light turns red.

So, while some of us might get caught and have to pay the price for miscalculating, we are not the ones that the cameras are there for.
From my observations, it is not those moments of indecision that we have to be concerned with, it is the flagrant drivers who think their time is more valuable than someone else's or too busy not driving to pay attention.

It is these folks we need the cameras for:

Look at the second video (Missouri) at 2:45

These are not people who misjudged the length of a caution light.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=red+light+running&aq=f

[Jeremy]

It occurs to me that the reason people going through red lights is apparently a big issue in the States - but not here - is that you use traffic lights far more than we do - where you have lights we very often have roundabouts, especially on faster roads. Obviously you can still have an accident on a roundabout, but at least 'everyone' has to slow down, and the situation where vehicles traveling at 60mph can meet vehicles traveling at 10mph cannot happen.

Just a thought

Jeremy

[Dreamscape]

When I was in Belfast, it was my first real experience with roundabouts. At first I was trying to figure out which lane to be in to exit where I needed to. After a few days I liked them. You are correct, the traffic is much slower, but at least it's moving.

I did experience that MN I think, thought it was strange to see them in the States.

Good point Jeremy!

[HighTechRedneck]

They've put in a few roundabouts in Chattanooga in the last few years.

[kyle4501]

We call them 'traffic circles' around here (Spartanburg, SC) & we have one just down the street from work - there are collisions there all the time.  

If an idiot is gonna be selfish enough to run a red light, I think it is a stretch to think that same idiot would yield at a traffic circle. . .  

One of the underlying problems is the false notion that driving is a right, not a privilege. At least in Europe there is a public transportation system available so the bad drivers can't use the excuse they 'have to drive to get to work'. . . .

[HighTechRedneck]

One of the underlying problems is the false notion that driving is a right, not a privilege. At least in Europe there is a public transportation system available so the bad drivers can't use the excuse they 'have to drive to get to work'. . . .

Here they do have a pretty good city bus system but still grant "restricted licenses" to those who have had their license suspended.  But if they get caught driving anywhere other than their job or the grocery store nearest their home, it gets revoked and the term of their suspension extended.

[Lin]

I think that the cameras could be tuned to catch the true red light runners without netting the miscalculations and causing more accidents than they deter.  They would be set up that way if safety was the motivation.  They are not set that way because revenue is the motivation.  Since receiving a citation can affect your license and insurance rates, I find the practice to be predatory.  Having been in law enforcement, I am aware to how easy it is to use the law to further injustice.  I wonderful example is an incident where a cab driver I know was shot but able to drive himself to the hospital.  He did speed and did not wait for lights to change green if he saw it was safe to cross.  The police let him drive on when they realized he was injured, but they followed him to the hospital to give him the tickets.

[wal1809]

Most everyone here is a safe driver, we care about doing it right.  The biggest concern seems to be safely stopping when the light turns yellow.  It can be difficult to do the instantaneous computation of "how far am I from the stop line" and "how fast am I going"? It can get harder as we get older.

Now, as I understand it and as clearly explained for the new cameras coming to St Pete, you will only be charged if you cross the line after the light turns red.

So, while some of us might get caught and have to pay the price for miscalculating, we are not the ones that the cameras are there for.
From my observations, it is not those moments of indecision that we have to be concerned with, it is the flagrant drivers who think their time is more valuable than someone else's or too busy not driving to pay attention.

It is these folks we need the cameras for:

Look at the second video (Missouri) at 2:45

These are not people who misjudged the length of a caution light.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=red+light+running&aq=f

I would agree with you if the red light cameras reduced accidents, but they don't.  If the data proved it was stopping people from running the ligths and accidents were reduced then I would agree with you.  I am sorry your people were hurt, that is a shame.  I know of others that were hurt because of the red light cameras.  Accidents happen daily and people are getting hurt often.  I feel for them as well.  I feel for everyone getting hurt whether it was a red light runner or otherwise that caused the accident.  What gets me are the cities that put them up disguised as a way to avoid accidents from red light runners.  Now they all know is has not solved the red light runner problem and it creates another problem.  They still keep taking the money!!!!  If that aint a CASH COW I will kiss your foot.

[Len Silva]

So, I started digging a little.  Here is a very interesting piece
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970/

Saying that some localities are removing cameras because they were too effective and infractions, thus fines were down.  Incredible!

I take it all back.  Revenue IS more important than safety. At least in Dallas.  Let's encourage people to run the light so we can fine them.  Yeah, that's the ticket.