Can I take my RTS to Europe for a while?

Kevin Warnock · May 24, 2010, 06:55:06 PM

My wife said she wants to take an extended tour of Europe, perhaps a year. I proposed we look into taking our RTS bus conversion there when it's done. She agreed! I am actually shocked she would so readily agree to such a crazy adventure.

I've been reading the book 'Take your RV to Europe' by Adelle and Ron Milavsky, and they make it sound quite reasonable to take a small motorhome to Europe. They took their Toyota mini motorhome there and had a great time. They used a roll-on roll-off service from the East Coast, and the round trip fee was under $5,000. I am in San Francisco, and I have a 40' foot by 8.5 foot wide RTS. I got a quote from an online shipping calculator from Los Angeles to Rotterdam, Netherlands for $7,000 one way, including $40,000 of insurance. This doesn't seem too bad, given how much we'll save by having our own home while there. Apparently there are nice and cheap campgrounds in every medium and large city in Europe. For example there are are campgrounds for 25 Euros a night in Paris, and the city transit system goes to the campground.

So, I have a lot of questions, such as will my California Class C license let me drive my conversion all over Europe?

Where will I get insurance?

I am not nervous about actually driving in Europe, as I've spent a few weeks driving rental cars around UK, France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy. I've also driven my previous MCI 5A conversion quite a bit in San Francisco and New York City, so the traffic doesn't worry me. Plus, we don't plan to drive right into every big city.

I hope with all my heart that my wife and I can take this trip, which we would be thinking about doing starting next spring, in 2011. But even if it takes a couple of years to plan, we want to take this trip.

Any thoughts about all of this would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Kevin

NeoplanAN440 · May 24, 2010, 07:10:56 PM

that would be something!!! haha

its now 5 years ago that i have been home in germany to visit my family,but from the reactions i got when they saw our converted bus (in pics)and heard the stories what we do with it,i guess you wont be happy!!

i havent seen many rv lots that could take your rig.let alone that its not so easy to park just somewhere overnight.on the parking lot from my hometown supermarkt i would allready have problems with my gmc 3500 dually,that is usally behind my bus on a trailer.
then i dont know how it works with the driver license.

and then the fun part!!!

my last info was that diesel is at 1.24 Euro a liter!!!! thats about $6 a gallon depending on exchange and where the crisis will bring us!!!
i drove a 55 miles per gallon car and it was still hurting to go south and north to visit them all!!

if you go there enjoy,lots to see,eat and drink a beer or two for me. i prefer JEVER !!!!

TomC · May 24, 2010, 07:37:05 PM

Most European campsites are very small. You better check if they will accept a 12 meter bus. Plus-most all of Europe is on 110v and 50cycles (compared to our 120vac and 60cycles). Most of the campsites and motorhomes are wired for straight 220vac and 50cycles. Course-you could just run your generator. I'm not sure how much a voltage converter to go from 120vac 60cycles to 220vac and 50cycles. Personally-with the $7,000 each way, you could rent a motorhome there for many days. Good Luck, TomC

Chopper Scott · May 24, 2010, 07:59:52 PM

Europe? I guess you've already seen everything here.

But in all reality you may check into buying something there and then selling it after your done. It doesn't sound like your bus is going to be to compatable over there. Have you ever seen the size of the refrigerators? I had a friend from England visit me and he couldn't believe the size of our fridge not to mention we also had another one in the basement. Probably holds true for the size of their campsites also!

Iceni John · May 24, 2010, 10:38:19 PM

$14,000 will rent you a very nice motorhome for a long time, of a size that will fit campgrounds and narrow streets, with far better fuel economy than the sub-10 MPG you're getting now. Heck, you may be able to buy something, use it for a while, then sell it at the end for little less than you paid (sort of like tourists in India who buy Enfield Bullet motorbikes, ride them for a few months, then sell them afterwards sometimes for a profit!). If you have a 6V92, what happens if it goes kaput in Europe - if you think finding good 2-stroke mechanics in USA is hard, try finding one in the lands of MB, Volvo, Scania, MAN and Iveco! Yes, Euro-electrons like to boogie 50 times a second, but in the British Isles they are 240V and elsewhere 220V. Europeans prefer volts to amps.

As a non-EC citizen you may have issues at some borders, and if you're driving a USA-registered vehicle it won't make things easier. Also, in some countries any vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is heavier than a regular car license allows, so you may need a PSV or HGV license. As for insurance, who knows?

Obviously it's not impossible to drive an American transit bus around Europe, any more than intrepid Germans who drive Unimogs all around the world, or hippyish Brits still driving old double-deckers across Asia to India and Nepal. It would certainly be an adventure, albeit an expensive one.

Bon chance, John

Jeremy · May 25, 2010, 01:09:50 AM

It probably wouldn't be practical, but you should do it anyway - it will be a once-in-a-lifetime adventure.

I've never, ever seen an American bus on the road in the UK, although I did once see an advert for a 4104 being sold by Pinewood Studios. You do occasionally see bus conversions, and there are a lot more 40' Class A's here than you might imagine (in fact there are two, plus an Airstream trailer, that live less than 1/2 mile from my house). Having said that, I don't really know how many campsites will take them - I suspect a lot of them are for traveling to sporting events and the like, rather than traditional camping in campsites.

Although most European motorhomes and touring caravans (travel trailers) are comparatively small, there are some which are similar in length (but not height) to my bus (although my bus isn't a 40-footer). Lastly, there are a lot of campsites here with static caravans (40-50' foot long), which would take a bus very easily - but you'd need to speak to them first, as by definition they are not used to 'tourers'.

I'm not sure about the electrical situation, but I suspect you can get converters specifically for the job.

Regarding the cost of shipping your bus - I have seen 40' coaches strapped down to a steel 'skid' which is effectively the base of a 40' shipping container and could be loaded as such (only ever on top of the pile though, obviously). This option might be considerably cheaper than a Ro-Ro ferry.

Cost of fuel:- do a WVO conversion before you come.

Jeremy

gumpy · May 25, 2010, 05:18:43 AM

Quote from: Jeremy on May 25, 2010, 01:09:50 AM
Regarding the cost of shipping your bus - I have seen 40' coaches strapped down to a steel 'skid' which is effectively the base of a 40' shipping container and could be loaded as such (only ever on top of the pile though, obviously). This option might be considerably cheaper than a Ro-Ro ferry.

Yeah, there's something I'd really want to do with all the money and hard work I've put into my conversion!!

Just imagine your bus was loaded on the top right of the ship below. Where's your bus now?

m-werx · May 25, 2010, 05:41:24 AM

Hi yes take the bus, we had a 30ft Winnie with a 20ft trailer went all over Europe parked in gas stations, we were racing @ the time, the only problem we had jealous neighbours, but we fixed that ( moved to USA ) there is a company in Vegas that ship all over, two years ago $2500, for a 40ft RV to Belgium from Jacksonville fl, hope you have a good time,Darren,

Ed Hackenbruch · May 25, 2010, 05:56:20 AM

Do you really want to expose your bus to all of that salt air back and forth across the ocean?

Kevin Warnock · May 25, 2010, 03:24:30 PM

Thanks for the comments.

Just a note that my RTS has a Series 50. The bus itself has just 370,000 miles on it. The engine computer had only about 1,000 miles on it when I bought the bus. Whether it's a new engine or a new computer I don't know.

Fuel is costly in Europe but everything is so compact compared to the US that I expect my fuel costs to be no more than if I spent a year touring the US. The couple that took their Toyota motorhome to Europe found they spent only $200 more than their previous long US trip ($1,400 vs. $1,200). Also, I will take a full tank with me.

Do you think I would be able to get any service on a Series 50 in Europe? How do people with British buses in the US get service here? I see British buses all the time in San Francisco, as sightseeing buses.

With regards to power differences, I rarely plug in in the US, as I prefer to boondock. I would plan to not boondock much in Europe since the camping is so convenient to cities, which I prefer.

With regard to renting a motorhome, that would cost so much more than taking my RTS. It's in the range of $150 a day without fuel, and generally few motorhomes have generators from what I've been able to determine. Also, according to the RV book I mentioned in my first post, most campgrounds only provide about 8-15 amps of power, making it hard to run an air conditioner even when camped. It gets hot in Europe in the summer.

But the main reason I want to take the RTS is that I love buses, and my bus in particular, and I would just not enjoy being in a cramped rental camper without my Internet dish. Oh, does anyone know if the MotoSat DataStorm dish can be set to point to and connect via a satellite over Europe?

My RTS gets 10+ mpg on the freeway at 60 mph, as it has 4:10 gearing, so the fuel usage won't be completely crazy.

I am still hoping if someone knows if my California license will allow me to drive my RTS in Europe. I am hoping there is an arrangement that says since I am legal in California, I am also legal in Europe. If my license won't work, can I take the required test in one country as a tourist, and then use that license for the rest of Europe?

Thanks

Jeremy · May 25, 2010, 04:23:08 PM

A couple of links which might help:

Commercial vehicle operation in the UK (may or may not apply to your bus, you'll have to study it) : http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/
Vehicle and Driver licensing: http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/

Generally speaking I imagine the above will be true for the whole of Europe, or at least be typical - but again, you'll have to study it to be sure

Finally, a company in the UK that deals with Detroit Diesel & Allison Transmission; I expect there are plenty of others, but I happen to know about this place because they are local to me and I see their vans running round with the DD / AT logos on the side: http://www.centraldriveline.co.uk/

Jeremy

Iceni John · May 25, 2010, 04:29:32 PM

Quote from: 1967_MCI5a on May 25, 2010, 03:24:30 PM
Do you think I would be able to get any service on a Series 50 in Europe? How do people with British buses in the US get service here? I see British buses all the time in San Francisco, as sightseeing buses.
My RTS gets 10+ mpg on the freeway at 60 mph, as it has 4:10 gearing, so the fuel usage won't be completely crazy.

Detroit's website says there are a few dealers for parts and service in some countries, so you should be OK. As for Brit buses in USA, nah, they never need service, they just run for ever . . .
60MPH should be enough to keep you alive on the autobahn and autostrada, even though some vehicles will pass you like you're standing still! Remember, don't stray out of the relative safety of the right lane - life happens really quickly in the left lane!

John

Kevin Warnock · May 25, 2010, 05:02:42 PM

I will stay in the slow lane. My RTS has a top speed of 75 mph and seems steady and stable at that speed, so I could travel at that speed in Germany for example.

I am so happy to know there are Detroit Diesel service centers in Europe! What vehicles over there typically have such engines?

With regard to spare tires, would I have a problem getting them there? I don't own a spare now, but probably would take one with me if I can't buy one locally.

Thanks

niles500 · May 25, 2010, 07:06:46 PM

http://www.aaa.com/vacation/idpf.html

http://europeforvisitors.com/europe/driving/international-driving-permit.htm

Sean · May 25, 2010, 07:52:26 PM

Quote from: 1967_MCI5a on May 25, 2010, 03:24:30 PM
.... Also, I will take a full tank with me.
...

Actually, you probably will not. Most shipping companies require all fuel tanks to be drained before shipment. Ro-Ro's generally allow only enough fuel basically to drive on and off the vessel and through the yards.

Check with your shipper before you fuel up. They will not give you any credit for fuel you have to off-load before embarking.

That's absolutely true for gasoline and also usually true for diesel. LP is another matter altogether and, if you have LP tanks aboard, you will have to have them emptied and purged before loading.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com