Turbocharge and air to air intercooler

TomC · May 22, 2010, 02:10:48 PM

Here are two pictures of my turbocharging and air to air intercooler. Good Luck, TomC

NeoplanAN440 · May 22, 2010, 02:36:51 PM

Great installation!!

i was always going to ask,how happy are you with it??
also,im on my way to a cummins repower,but i havent figured out my transmission and rear end of choice!!

so i have some more trips with my 6V92 to do.
i was playing with the idea to plumb in an intercooler from a dodge 5.9 2nd generation.
these are allready pretty large for its use.
what do you think,if i would feel a difference.
im not happy with the hill climbing power of my bus,even with a 4.63 rear end.
that makes no sense to me ,as im wondering how the mci guys all get up a grade.

also i can fell a big difference in power if im climbing cold (in the morning) or hot.
so i guess that tiny aftercooler that my 6v92 has is doing nothing.

still
nice and clean engine bay!!!

Ed Hackenbruch · May 22, 2010, 08:12:59 PM

How do the MCI guys get up the hills? Depends on the hill and what you got. Our 68 5A with 8V71N with a 644 allison tranny? .......some hills very slooooowly, gives us lots of time to see what is in the ditches along the road.

TomC · May 22, 2010, 11:47:09 PM

If you compare the air flow and cubic inch displacement of a 6V-92TA to a 4 stroke, it would be nearly 900 cu in. So the relatively small air to air intercooler of the 5.9 would hinder more then help. My air to air intercooler has 4 inch hose and can flow almost 1500cu/ft of air per minute. For a 8V-92TA, you need closer to 1800cu/ft of air.

Thanks for the compliment. The engine bay is a bit dirtier now, but try to keep it clean. Always seems to be an oil leak somewhere (not the case with my Caterpillar with 1.2 million miles on it). Good Luck, TomC

JohnEd · May 23, 2010, 11:09:52 PM

My understanding is that an intecooler doesn't add an power to the engine. Not even a fraction of a horsepower. What it does do is keep the heat built up from prolonged high throttle running from crippling your power while you are pulling the hill.

The example was that if you put a fresh and cool engine on the dyno and run it up "once" it will generate so many HP. If you then install a intercooler and do the same test it will measure exactly the same HP. BUT, without the cooler you will see the power start to drop significantly as the heat builds on a long pull. The intercooler eliminates that drop in power.....largely. The bigger the intercooler, the less the drop cause it can dump more of the heat. Hot air is bad if it is off the board. Smaller doesn't mean you fail it only means you get less benefit and maybe so little you might as well not have bothered. MAYBE. I wouldn't thrown away an intercooler cause it was 10% undersized cause the price trade-off might sell the deal. Keep your options and your mind open. My mind is so open it feels drafty. Huge advantage, that.

The big converters have stacks of huge intercoolers sitting on the back lot. It isn't worth their time to refit or modify them but you may see it all differently. North West RV Salvage, here in Eugene, has ten or so of various sizes starting at AFB and going up.

Good hunting,

John

luvrbus · May 24, 2010, 06:31:43 AM

The little after cooler does work not as good as air to air but it cools air that is over 300* to 200* and air to air cools from around 250*entering to 110*at 75* ambient temp.
The ALCC systems works good on a 92 series but is high maintenance and there are other ways to help cool the air I have my own way since I didn't have room for the air to air. JohnEd it is not hp you are chasing with colder air it is torque and cooler air does that on a diesel

good luck

lostagain · May 24, 2010, 07:03:09 AM

When I overhauled my 4-71T last year, I installed an air to air aftercooler, (between the turbo and the blower). The theory being that the turbo compresses the charge air and that heats it. A charge air cooler cools it and it expands again and flows faster. Or something like that... It feeds cooler air to the combustion chambers, which is easier on the pistons and the whole head in general. I had replaced my pistons with the cross-head model, which are made to withstand more heat, and are spect for the turbo application. I was only seeing 8 psi of boost. I double checked my plumbing for leaks, etc. The cooler, at about 36" x 24", was the biggest I could fit in the space available. Long story short, I removed it. I have been running without it since. 12000 miles so far, and it is running great and strong, and 13psi of boost. If you look at the DD service manual, it shows the turbo version of the in line 71 without any cooler, so I don't feel so bad... Maybe a better mechanic could figure out a better set up...

JC

luvrbus · May 24, 2010, 07:17:23 AM

Jc, the 8v71T was around for years without any type cooler BTW I run 19:1 in my 8v92TA I wonder which one of us will blow first LOL

good luck

muddog16 · May 24, 2010, 07:41:05 AM

Nice neat installation, gottal love a clean engine compartment, that really shows how the bus is taken care of!...........Nice job! I just spent the last two days with my son putting my new radiator together, I understand how labor intensive your project was.

lostagain · May 24, 2010, 07:50:27 AM

I have a 220 Cummins powering a saw mill. I has a turbo thats pushes air directly into the intake, without any cooler. It even sucks through an oil bath filter! It ran like that for years 8 hours a day at the ski hill powering a T-bar lift in the 60s and 70s. Still runs strong. Intercoolers are a great thing, I am just illustrating how an engine can be run without one.

Not knowing much about the 92 series, can someone explain what kind of cooler is in them. I heard it is under the blower in the V between the heads? Is it air to air, or air to water (coolant)?

I don't mean to highjack your thread TomC, I think it is a good place to discuss intercoolers.

JC

Lee Bradley · May 24, 2010, 10:19:26 AM

Generally the 220 with a turbo was step up as a 262. Drove one of those in a KW with a 5 speed main and a 4 speed browny for years. You drove with the exhaust temp as much as the tach.

NJT5047 · May 24, 2010, 05:43:41 PM

Quote from: lostagain on May 24, 2010, 07:50:27 AM
I have a 220 Cummins powering a saw mill. I has a turbo thats pushes air directly into the intake, without any cooler. It even sucks through an oil bath filter! It ran like that for years 8 hours a day at the ski hill powering a T-bar lift in the 60s and 70s. Still runs strong. Intercoolers are a great thing, I am just illustrating how an engine can be run without one.

Not knowing much about the 92 series, can someone explain what kind of cooler is in them. I heard it is under the blower in the V between the heads? Is it air to air, or air to water (coolant)?
JC

Air to water in V92s. Sits between the heads and beneath the blower.
JR

luvrbus · May 24, 2010, 05:57:45 PM

JC air to water for most buses, air to air was popular for trucks and the advanced liquid charger cooling for the military and others for the 92 series

good luck

TomC · May 24, 2010, 07:51:13 PM

Any of the TA engines have a jacket water cooler beneath the blower in the V of the block. While the 8 cylinder is pretty good sized, the 6 cylinder is almost a joke. The air to air intercooler will make a more dramatic drop in inlet air temperature then any jacket water cooled aftercooler. This is why virtually all Diesels now have air to air intercoolers.

True, you can run a 8V-71 turbo without the cooler, but you're restricted to 75 injectors and the engine will put out 350hp and 1050lb/ft torque. The same injectors in my 8V-71 (9G75's) with air to air intercooler, and my engine produces 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque. I will keep my air to air intercooler mainly because I'm running 18.7 to one compression pistons, rather than the 17 to one turbo pistons. I'm a bit afraid the extra heat wouldn't be good. Good Luck, TomC