Bad news for basement A/C industry

[busguy01]

So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH

Jim, if it's a Heat Pump, I have a buyer waiting in line..
Nick-

Nick:
Got home and it is a heat pump Are you still interested?
JimH

[dougyes]

Nick- maybe you could do what I'm going to do-modify the Penguin roof top air to run as a basement air.  Since it is still being made, and now has been switched to the new freon, it will be around for awhile.  About the only modification I see you have to make is to duct the unit.  Meaning-the condenser fan is squirrel cage-you have to create a duct to take the hot air outside the bus like a 6" flex hose.  Then just create an adapter on the return and supply to also facilitate a duct.  I'm going to build a platform (I have 24" height in my basement) to make enough room for the lower return and supply ducts.  And since they are already available as a remote thermostat-that's not a problem.  Let me know if you'd be thinking on these lines since I need two for my truck conversion and would buy them from you if they'd be basement ready.  Good Luck, TomC

Tom, Could you give us more detail on how to convert a roofer to a basement?
Thanks

[Bob Belter]

Ahoy, Nick,

"Go for it!!!"  By building only to order, you should not have the serious risk of a large inventory.  A bit more costly for you and the customer that way, but survivable.  I'm sure that there are a lot of metal fabricators available to provide the cases.

Also, you could then easily add the capability of including the option of engine driven compressor(s) while over the road.  I have that on both my  R-22 hydronic systems, with two of the old R-6 compressors.  Works just great, other than the 'cold hose condensation problem'  which I have previously noted.  When plugged in, there are four each ~~14,500 btu  120vac compressors, (which have check valves in the lines).  The hose condensation problem renders the system not really acceptable, but it is very effective and otherwise easy to live with.  I'd planned to insulate the hoses while I was building, but didn't, and now it is just too hard.  I'll just suffer with it.  In your case, you sidestep that problem which I have.

I had not realized that machine production utilizing R-22 was stopped.  I know that R-22 production is to stop in 2030.  I'll then be even an older 'fellow' then than I am now.   

Enjoy   /s/   Bob

[PCC]

Ahoy, Nick,

"Go for it!!!"  By building only to order, you should not have the serious risk of a large inventory.  A bit more costly for you and the customer that way, but survivable.  I'm sure that there are a lot of metal fabricators available to provide the cases.

Line me up also. I am still trying to find someone to put the components together for the cooling and heating of my vehicle. I am looking for a lot of cool, but I have found the size of evaporator that will work in the space I have, but it is the rest of the pieces that I have no idea what or how.

So let me know if you decide to do this. If not, we will all be disappointed. If you do, and need a hand, I would love to learn the craft.

[HighTechRedneck]

Nick, reading these posts it sounds like you have a great business opportunity before you here.  The big boys are backing out of the market because the market isn't big enough to support large corporations with big factories.  And your target consumer base already knows and trusts your reputation and is encouraging you to do it.  Sounds like the perfect niche for you.

[luvrbus]

What going to happen with parts for the basement units are they going to be like most and just fade away ?



good luck

[NewbeeMC9]

you could make them run on DC,   12 & 24 volt,   less inverter needed then.

[oldmansax]

Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.

And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.

TOM

[Kenny]

Nick- maybe you could do what I'm going to do-modify the Penguin roof top air to run as a basement air.  Since it is still being made, and now has been switched to the new freon, it will be around for awhile.  About the only modification I see you have to make is to duct the unit.  Meaning-the condenser fan is squirrel cage-you have to create a duct to take the hot air outside the bus like a 6" flex hose.  Then just create an adapter on the return and supply to also facilitate a duct.  I'm going to build a platform (I have 24" height in my basement) to make enough room for the lower return and supply ducts.  And since they are already available as a remote thermostat-that's not a problem.  Let me know if you'd be thinking on these lines since I need two for my truck conversion and would buy them from you if they'd be basement ready.  Good Luck, TomC

Tom, Do you have plans, pictures or sketches on the mods you are going to make to turn the roof air into a basement? Also, how about turning a roof air with heat pump into a basement unit?
Kenny

[HighTechRedneck]

Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.

And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.

TOM

It seems like what is being discussed is no different than what his business does everyday already.  Assembling systems from existing components.  It isn't like he would be building his own compressors, condensers or evaporators.  Just putting together systems from components that have been manufactured in accordance with regulations.

[oldmansax]

Unfortunately, as soon as the government finds out Nick is "manufacturing" a unit, he will have to certify they meet all the appropriate standards. That will effectively shut down the operation.

And, don't think "No one will know, it's just between us bus nuts". I think Nick has been in the business at least as long as I have, which means he is known to his competitors. Somebody will talk.

TOM

It seems like what is being discussed is no different than what his business does everyday already.  Assembling systems from existing components.  It isn't like he would be building his own compressors, condensers or evaporators.  Just putting together systems from components that have been manufactured in accordance with regulations.

Maybe...... I hope you are right.

BUT,

I assume (almost always a bad start!) Nick usually puts together systems that have been tested by the manufacturer; i.e. a Carrier condensing unit mated to a Carrier air handler & coil that has been tested together to meet all the regulations. In this case he would be mixing different componets that have not been tested.

Anyway, it is certainly his decision & exposure.

TOM

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

So i guess the new, never used one I have in storage MAY be worth something? Actually decided to not use it a while back and forgot I had it until this post. Maybe I should list it in the spare tire area.
JimH

Jim, if it's a Heat Pump, I have a buyer waiting in line..
Nick-

Nick:
Got home and it is a heat pump Are you still interested?
JimH

Great! I will keep you in mind because I replaced alot of parts in my customers unit and it seems to
be running flawlessly right now..
Nick-

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Bob,

R-22 production has haulted as of december 31 2009. Supplies are abundant and should last for the

next 5 years or so. However, there are new gasses out there that will render R-22 useless real soon.

First being R-410A. The only problem with 410 is the operateing PSI's are double that of R-22 which

will lead to more refrigerant leaks, compressor failures, and serious injuries if the homeowner attempts

to tackle a refrigerant refill.. Second is R-407-C & B which is my favorite because because the chactoristics

are very close to R-22 and is a direct drop in replacement for R-22 without having to replace the oil.

Next is R- 417A, also very close to R-22 but reacts more like R-134A and requires Polyester oil in the system.

Ok, gotta get to the office, I will continue soon...
Nick-

[robertglines1]

I know this is not on point..but thanks for info on ref replacement types..will watch while buying new air system...Bob

[TomC]

While I don't have pictures of what my idea for converting a Penguin ducted model to a basement modes, I went to Camping World and looked at one that was a take off.  Both the return and the cold air feed, while they are not round, have flanges on them that you can clamp flexible ducts to them.  More importantly, the Penguin is the only roof top that uses a squirrel cage blower to suck the air through the condenser and then blow it out the side of the unit-hence you can make a plenum to attach a flexible duct to that blower to feed the hot air to the outside.  I'm going to try to find two 13,500btu straight cool mechanical control duct Penguins with the new freon to use (Nick?).  Then just mount them elevated about a foot above the floor for space for the duct work on a platform, and then you have it!  Good Luck, TomC