Sand balancing - tires - question

plyonsMC9 · September 13, 2006, 08:52:59 PM

Hi All,

I went to get another new front tire, right hand side this time, to match the new Yokohama model tire I had put on last year on the left hand side. This tire store had a fair price for my 12r 22.5, but when I asked them they said they didn't have a spin balancer, but they used some kind of sand instead. ? This is not a small shop. Actually, I think it is fairly large. Antioch tire in Illinois. There are other locations as well.

What is the story about this sand balancing? Is it a good idea? Do I need to post more info?

Thank you!

Phil

Busted Knuckle · September 13, 2006, 08:58:15 PM

Phil, I hadn't heard of anyone actually using sand, but I have used a powdered type stuff called Equal which is a heavy powder that they ould be calling "sand" That's about as much as I can add! BK

plyonsMC9 · September 13, 2006, 09:01:39 PM

Thanks Knuckle, I will ask the guy exactly what he is going to be using.

Best Regards, Phil

TomC · September 13, 2006, 11:54:00 PM

Find a shop that has a spin balancer. There is no substitute for that. Then you can consider using additional balancing methods. The one dynamic balancer I like are the Centrimatics rings that mount behind the wheel with ball bearings in auto trans fluid. Is the only one I've tried that really works. Good Luck, TomC

kyle4501 · September 14, 2006, 10:06:32 AM

Before you let them put anything inside the tire, find out what it does to the warranty of the tire.
Michellin will void the warranty.
Goodyear reserves the right to void the warranty if they think the added stuff damaged the tire.

Lots of people have advocated using golf balls & some have had good luck with that, but that is not for me.

If powder is used, you must use DRY air to fill the tire since moisture will cause 'clumping' of the powder making it ineffective.

Personally, I'll heed the advice of the tire maker over the opinion of the installer. But that's just me.

My choice is to buy the proper tire for the job & have them spin balanced along with a proper alignment.

Good luck.

Busted Knuckle · September 14, 2006, 10:51:55 AM

Quote from: kyle4501 on September 14, 2006, 10:06:32 AM
Before you let them put anything inside the tire, find out what it does to the warranty of the tire.
Michellin will void the warranty.
Goodyear reserves the right to void the warranty if they think the added stuff damaged the tire.

Lots of people have advocated using golf balls & some have had good luck with that, but that is not for me.

If powder is used, you must use DRY air to fill the tire since moisture will cause 'clumping' of the powder making it ineffective.

Personally, I'll heed the advice of the tire maker over the opinion of the installer. But that's just me.

My choice is to buy the proper tire for the job & have them spin balanced along with a proper alignment.

Good luck.

Kyle, my tire guy and I discussed this clumping issue at length and although we could be wrong, came to the conclusion that the clump if it did happen would be temporary. Heres what we came up with one the clump tossing around in the tire will break up as it tosses and the tire/air heats up drying up the moisture! He said very rarely ever find water in a tire when dismounting them from a vehicle that gets driven any at all, however the "storage trailers" that he services that might go 20 miles a month from the parking lot to dock and back & forth sometimes have a small amount of water in 'm ! And there are legitimate arguements as far as spin balancing being effective only around the speed they are spun at for the balancer! So is there a right way and a wrong way? I don't know I just know what has worked for me, and as the AWOL Fast Fred say's do it yer way! LOL !

As I said just our thoughts ! We're not experts on it but, then again anyone promoting another product or method is going to argue with our logic anyway, whether it's right or wrong! BK

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kyle4501 · September 14, 2006, 11:49:26 AM

I'm going from memory here, but there is something called a critical or narural frequency & there are several, each is at a different speed.

The result is that when you spin balance a tire at to low of a speed, then it may not be balanced for the speed at which you plan to use it.

I looked in to buying a spin balancer once upon a time. The better ones had settings on them for quality of balance.... The higher quality, the more time it took to balance the tire.

The tire shops near me insist there is no setting, but I snooped around once & found such a setting on one, & they said that it took more weight to balance the tire so they didn't use it.
That tells me they didn't understand tire balancing. They only know how to operate the machine under specific circumstances.
Like I said, be careful of the opinions of the tire store employees. Some of them are the ones that say wheel nut torque isn't important........

I know that when we balance rolls at work, we never have a problem if we balance for a higher speed than what we actually run.

BK brings up a good point in that your actual useage impacts the results. So learn as much as possible so you can make the best choice for your needs.

YMMV

tekebird · September 14, 2006, 03:57:31 PM

I have cetrimatica all around on my 04....no lead weights.

Dad has Cetrimatics All around on his 4108 no lead

Just put Dynabeads in the MC-8 on the front....no lead.......

All work perfectly....don't mar up the edge of the wheel be it painted or aluminum

You'll never throw a dynamic ballacer......lead comes off

I plan on doing the rest of the Wheels on the MC-8 when new tires get put on the drives and tags this winter

Clarke Echols · September 14, 2006, 04:18:36 PM

The local tire shop I use has a bag of dark grey powder they toss into truck tires before mounting.
It then breaks up (plastic bag) in operation and balances the tires. Whe I saw them doing it, the
owner-operator was there and seemed to have no concerns because they always did his tires.

If you "balance" a rotating device dynamically at a lower speed than when operating, the balancer
may not have the sensitivity to guarantee balance at higher speeds. It depends on the quality
and accuracy of the balacing machine. If it's balanced at a higher speed, it will be unconditionally
balanced at lower speeds unless there is an independent factor that could alter the result. The
flexibility of rubber combined with centrifugal force as the tire rotates could vary the results
somewhat. Whether the variation is noticeable to the user/driver/operator/passenger is an
entirely different matter.

Clarke

Beatenbo · September 14, 2006, 04:59:36 PM

Phil, I am running Firestone FS400 315/80/ 22.5 and I have Equal in the front and it does pretty good up to about 72 mph just a little bounce after that. I just put a couple tires I had took off the drive axle on my tags. One had equal and looked okay inside.Good day, Charlie B.