appreciate some non-bus drive train advice

[bevans6]

A friend of mine is looking at a toterhome, and called me for some advice on diesel engines...  I said if it's not a two stroke I don't know, but I know some guys who do!  so hoping for some advice!

Rig is a 2004 Freightliner Columbia, Cat C12 with an Eaton 10 speed Auto.  I wasn't sure if that was a full auto, or if it had a clutch for starts.  it's 415 hp, and has 86K miles.  What should we look out for?  It's always been a toterhome, always been owned by an auto racing team towing a 4 car trailer.  $115K for the rig and trailer.

thanks very much for any thoughts you have!

Bus content - chipped the ice from the door today, and aired the bus up with shop air but couldn't get the governor to kick the purge on the air dryer, not quite enough pressure from the shop air compressor to get over 120 psi on the bus...

Thanks guys

Brian

[DaveG]

With that kind of low mileage, there is not much to look for! Just get one of those air fresheners "new car smell" and you won't know the difference. The C-12 is a GREAT engine, better than the replacement (C-13). If it is a short hood (C112 as opposed to a C120) it will have excellent forward visibility and turning radius. I'm not even sure I'd take it in for a tune-up...probably wait a year or two!

[buswarrior]

Is that the price including the trailer?

Just be sure of which Eaton transmission is in it.

If it is the one with a clutch AND you have to manipulate the throttle for each gear change, you want a big discount from market value, and possibly forget it. He must take it for an extended road test, around town and including hill work, up and down, at lower speeds.

They are a royal pain in the rear to drive, especially from a stop uphill. Simply will not change gears properly while human and computer fight each other. Going to neutral by itself and rolling backwards is always fun...

If it is the middle generation, with a clutch and the computer manages the throttle, then they are nice, and I'd buy it. If it is a two pedal, it is lovely, and buy it right away!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[bevans6]

The price includes the stacker trailer (not a tail-gate lift, which would be better), the upper deck holds three cars, room for one more on the floor, plus all the workshop and storage/tool cabinets.  It has three 10k axles.  Exactly which trans is yet to be determined, but it is probably the two pedal.  The living quarters are fairly premium, leather couches etc.  Race car guys seem to either have a sponsor and more money to spend than they know what to do with, or are out of business and holding a fire-sale, nothing in between...

thanks for the tip on the transmission, I hadn't heard of that before!

Brian

[TomC]

The AutoSelect-the Eaton 10spd that was originally available for mechanical engines, has not been available in Freightliner trucks since 2002. So if it is a 2004, it will have either the AutoShift, which has a clutch pedal for starting and stopping (in my opinion, the better choice-it gives you more control when backing), or the UltraShift that has a centrifugal clutch-which can be controlled pretty well by just using one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake at the same time.  If the transmission is the 1650lb/ft version, you can turn the C12 up to 470hp and 1650lb/ft torque.  At 410hp, it has 1450lb/ft torque-which is still enough for most.  The C12 is a proven, reliable engine that with proper maintenance should last up to 800,000 miles.  You can tell if it is a short hood by looking at the picture.  The long hood has the hood tie downs externally.  The short hood has the hood tie downs hidden within the rear hood vents.  Personally-like the long hood for better engine accessibility, and the toterhome manufacturers usually used the long hood to allow bigger fuel tanks to be fitted under the cab and not extend back into the body of the toterhome (usually twin 80 gal tanks).

Just for information- the next generation of UltraShift will be one that Eaton has replaced the centrifugal clutch with an electronically controlled clutch.  This does two things-first it gives better control when starting with the option of brake hold for 5 seconds on a hill to get going without roll back, and two-the clutch will be releasing on every shift automatically to facilitate much faster shifting-so it will be almost as fast shifting as an Allison.  The new UltraShift Plus will be available in 9spd-convertible to a 13 spd (for companies with big fleets that want to resell to owner/operators), 10spd, 11spd (8spd with 3 low gears-super low creeper for concrete mixers and pavers), 13spd, 18spd with deep low.  Freightliner will have these new transmissions available in the new trucks in the 3rd quarter of this year.  The 13 spd UltraShift Plus would be my choice.  Good Luck, TomC

[Charles in SC]

Who built the camper section? Is it a fifth wheel style? Some of the toter trucks have the ability to control the rear air suspension to raise and or lower the truck to make hooking and unhooking the trailer easier. Also for more ground clearance in rough ground. Mine will lower for hookup but not raise for clearance. Hope this makes since. Mine is a United Specialties and I am very happy with it except that the fresh water tanks are small and the beds not great. There do not seem to be very many floor plans out there

[Busted Knuckle]

Who built the camper section? Is it a fifth wheel style? Some of the toter trucks have the ability to control the rear air suspension to raise and or lower the truck to make hooking and unhooking the trailer easier. Also for more ground clearance in rough ground. Mine will lower for hookup but not raise for clearance. Hope this makes since. Mine is a United Specialties and I am very happy with it except that the fresh water tanks are small and the beds not great. There do not seem to be very many floor plans out there

Charles it ain't hard to add yer own "raise" system. I personally would use a cylinder in the ride height linkage that will extend and make the linkage longer and "fool the ride height valve into thinking it was low" when needed. (Setra in Greensboro, NC has them in stock as they are standard on Setra coaches!)
FWIW   BK 

[bevans6]

Charles - it's a 2004 Renegade fifth wheel that was built on what is probably a 2002 or 2003 chassis.  It's a 14' box, which for me is too small, but with the trailer brings him in at 74 feet total, legal in Ontario.  he needs to carry 4 cars and run them out of it, so he needs the trailer.  It has one slide, the fold out couch slides out.  It has a three piece bath, a little kitchen area, and a little over-head bunk over the cab.  Gen is a 7500 Onan.  Based on the advice we got, he is going to look at it next weekend. 

BK, how long and how much are the Setra height links?  I want to do that to my MCI.

thanks, Brian

[Charles in SC]

Wow, you said that Ontario, that brings to mind the furnace in mine. It is not nearly big enough, even for South Carolina winters. If the temp is below about 40 it never satisfies the thermostat. I would check that out. As far as I can tell the Renegade is about the same thing as my United Specialities unit except the Renegade has a little more bling on it. One thing I will say is that they are built like a tank. I could not understand why it weighed so much (24,000) until I crawled under it. It will put a bus to shame. There ain't stick and staple here. This thing is built with 1/2 inch steel and 3/4 plywood. Another thing to think about is can you get the rear wheels off just by jacking it up. On mine you cannot. the fenders are made so close you have to jack it up and put jack stands under the frame and then let the axle back down. Good luck!