C-13 or C-14 Cat?

[robertglines1]

Starting next conversion.Have not bought drive train yet(original was not in shell)Any input on this possibility verses 60 serries.Would like to make a well informed decision...any year to stay away from?

[DaveG]

From a truck operators point of view, I'd pick a 60 (or even a Cummins) over the C-13. The twin turbo setup can be expensive if there are problems, and fuel mileage is pretty poor for today's engines.  Now a C-12...that is a different story. I have a nice C-12 that I am sitting on, either to do a repower on a future bus, or sell.

[TomC]

The C12 can be easily turned up to 470hp and 1650lb/ft torque.  It is a reliable engine.  The C13 on the other hand with its' twin turbo AND aftercooler is a mechanical nightmare.  The C15 whether it be the single or twin turbo engine is just too big physically for a bus (also the Series 50, 60 and N14 and ISX Cummins).  Suitable sized engines that would be relatively easy to swap are the forementioned Cat C12, Cummins M11/ISM, Mercedes Benz 4000, Volvo D13.  With the newer engines getting more horsepower out of them then ever, the new Cummins ISL with 450hp and 1350lb/ft torque would be a good choice if you're looking at being green in choosing an engine with the most up to date smog control devices-mainly a catalytic converter with particulate trap and the Urea injection reaction chamber, commonly called Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) using Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF [Urea]).  Good Luck, TomC

[belfert]

Tom, I belive Robert's new shell came with a Series 60 originally so he won't have any size issues just popping a Series 60 back in there.

Roobert, I would stick with the S60 unless Prevost has a cradle for the Cat engine.  You'll put a lot of time into getting a Cat mounted properly.

[robertglines1]

Its sort of nice to have a choice...i have nothing now and want to put best set up back in..cost would be about the same either way...fuel cost is a consideration..Will be last bus I do so want to get it right and enjoy for many years....have access to 14 ltr detroit 60 series and trans combo with cradle and rear end to match as a package...decision is tough..trying with guidance from board to make right one....engine,transmission,and diff  combo  Going in 98 prevost 45 XLE..bought as a salvage shell for 1200 dollars..

[luvrbus]

Robert, stay away from the S60 EGR engines those are 4 to 5 mpg engines go with a DDEC IV and give some thought about using a Eaton 10 speed  auto  in place of a Allison will save you big bucks and yield better fuel mileage it's not going to be long before fuel is 5 bucks a gal again.
Don't over look a 3406E CAT same as a C-15 with out all the bs if you can get a buy on one.
Not being one of Cummins biggest fans that would be my last choice of engines




good luck

[Busted Knuckle]

Tom, I belive Robert's new shell came with a Series 60 originally so he won't have any size issues just popping a Series 60 back in there.

Roobert, I would stick with the S60 unless Prevost has a cradle for the Cat engine.  You'll put a lot of time into getting a Cat mounted properly.

Brian yer right what came out of it, but I can assure you if you saw his current "practice bus" and some of the other projects Bob has done you'd know as well as I do he ain't afraid of tackling a difficult project! (engine cradle would probably be one of his easier accomplishments! )
As I said he ain't faint at heart when tackling projects!  His bus is one screaming accomplishment, but only a small sample of his projects! His huge photo album of others as well as telling me of yet others has me convinced!

And Bob, "Will be last bus I do" OK I'll let you tell it, it's yer story but really?  (Judy might believe you. But have you noticed when you say that how she steps to the side and looks up making sure there is not lightning coming down? )
  BK 

[Busted Knuckle]

And Bob, "Will be last bus I do" OK I'll let you tell it, it's yer story but really?  (Judy might believe you. But have you noticed when you say that how she steps to the side and looks up making sure there is not lightning coming down? )
 BK  

[Phil H / Chicago]

Hi Robert,
Your present coach looks great...I like the island....is it moveable?

I can't wait to see your next one come together. I would stay with the ser60 myself...but that's just my preference. Can I ask, did you purchase the salvage shell from a little town in southwest Ohio?

Thanks,
Phil

[TomC]

If your bus is set up for a Series 60, then stay with it (you'll be hard pressed to find a better engine).  Try to find a pre '98 engine of around 470hp (500hp took a real fuel mileage hit).  The '98's have the best fuel mileage because of lack of smog devices.  2002-2007 (engine year models) were the worst with EGR.  2007-2010 were better, even with EGR because of the particulate trap eased some of the engines smog controls.

The new DD13, 15, 16-because of most of the smog devices are after the engine, the EGR has been substantially reduced and with the new high pressure common rail fuel injection, the new clean burning Diesels are once again getting the same mileage as the pre '98 Series 60's.  Good Luck, TomC

[Busted Knuckle]

Hi Robert,
Can I ask, did you purchase the salvage shell from a little town in southwest Ohio?
Thanks,
Phil

Phil,
Yes you've seen Bob's shell before. But no HE didn't buy it from a little town in SW Ohio, his wife did ! (She bought it from Todd as a Christmas gift for Bob!)
 BK    (the politically incorrect busnut! )

[Busted Knuckle]

Hi Robert,
Your present coach looks great...I like the island....is it moveable?
Thanks,
Phil

Phil,
OH yeah no Bob's Island is not movable, it's stationary. (but the love seat, fridge and wall are. same as the bed and bedroom wall! )
 BK    (the politically incorrect busnut! )

[Phil H / Chicago]

Hey BK....I kinda figured that was the case. Todd didn't mention he sold it but it has been a little while since he and I have chatted.

Phil

[Just Dallas]

Removed

[robertglines1]

Just got back from Jack Conrad's,fine people and very knowledgeable busnuts....The island has worked out great,when the room is in you can walk around the other side(it is flush on drivers side).A lot of decisions to make about drive train..I have budgeted 10 to 15 thousand for the right set up..less would be great..dependable neccesary!The shell came from Overpeck Ohio..really looking foward to doing project.