dumb question on automatic swap?

[bevans6]

If I were to swap in an allison MT 644 into my MC-5C in place of the Spicer 4 speed, where does one go about buying the transmission and the various parts?  If you just go looking for a used box, how do you tell it will fit?  Are there different ratio options or are they all the same?  I guess there are unique flex plates and bellhousings to fit the 8V-71?  How is the shifter connected physically back to the gearbox?  Can you do the swap without taking out the engine?

I did say these were dumb questions...  But my recent afternoon of looking for bearing bits inside of my Spicer has me thinking...

Brian

[luvrbus]

Take it from someone that has been there and done that the cheapest and easiest way is to go with a 6v92 and a 740 for a swap in a MCI 5 .
Another guy here is running into all kinds of problems trying to find parts to do that swap huh Lin


good luck

[TomC]

Luvrbus has very good suggestion-as it would be mine also.  Just exchange the whole engine and transmission for a 6V-92TA with Allison HT740.  It will fit, and you'll be amazed at the performance.  Your engine is putting out 275hp and 740lb/ft of torque (with 60 injectors).  With standard 90 injectors in the 6V-92TA you can get 350hp and 1050lb/ft torque-think your bus will go then?  You might have to increase the radiator size, but with that kind of performance, it's worth it.  6V-92TA with the HT740 are in lots of buses-just a matter of finding one perhaps in a crashed one.  My suggestion would be to stay with a mechanically controlled one for ease.  Good Luck, TomC

[RJ]

Bryan -

I'll agree with the others - it's a whole lot easier to swap the powertrain for a 6V92TA/HT740.

What hasn't been pointed out yet is that the H-series transmissions can handle the torque better than the M-series can in a highway coach application.  Most of the Ms were used in local service vehicles, such as skoolies, bobtail boxes, etc.  Not to say that it won't hold up in RV service, it does.  It's just that the 740 is virtually bullet-proof.

Heck, you might be able to buy a complete, running MC-9 just out of revenue service for about the same price as getting a full powertrain from NIMCO or Sam Caylor.  Lots of interchangeable parts that way, too - including the shift tower & cable!

Stuffing in the OEM 8V92TA-equipped MC-9 radiators and squirrel cages would give you a real hot rod, with respectable fuel mileage to boot. 

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Lin]

As Clifford said, we have run into problems getting the connection parts joining the 8v71 to an Allison 647.  I think we may have them now though.  I am just waiting for Don to get back to me confirming that.  The upgrade to a 6v92 would be nice though if you believe your 8v71 to be a bit short of power (which I do).  Although I might be hyper sensitive to the problem, having once had inadequate power to get up a hill (with a car on a tow dolly, no less), I look at the hill climbing ability of a torque converter as a major benefit of going automatic.   

[bevans6]

Thanks for the advice.  i guess that I will put this all in my pipe and smoke it for a while.  Being in Canada I can't just say a mc9 followed me home, can I keep it, the customs guys won't let it in.  i would have to buy a powertrain on a trailer and bring it in, or find something local.  I hate to change engines - what I have I know, and a new one could be a disaster in waiting for a sucker...

time has a way of making decisions like this for us, if nothing goes wrong nothing will change, if something breaks the right course of action will make itself apparent!

Cheers, brian

[RJ]

Being in Canada I can't just say a mc9 followed me home, can I keep it, the customs guys won't let it in. 

Not sure why that would be a problem, since the darned things were built in Winnipeg.

[bevans6]

While I don't know all the details, if it's still actually a bus it has to have all it's seats, a notice of recall from the manufacturer, pass a smog test, have  speedo and odo/hubmeter in KPH and other assorted bumpf.  Mine had all that done when it was imported.  It was converted up here, it came in as a complete running bus.  If it is a  pallet of spare parts, say a complete drivetrain, it's easier.  People kind of point at you and laugh, then let you in shaking their heads...after you pay tax on whatever the notional value of what you are bringing in is.

brian

[bobofthenorth]

I don't know this for a fact Brian - haven't done it myself - but I have talked to people who say they have done it.  What you need to do is bring the converted bus in the same way you would bring in the pallet of spare parts.  If its on a salvage title then it bypasses the gestapo at RIV.  Once its inside Canada you retitle it the same way you would any other salvage vehicle.  Or so I've been told.  I don't think my stomach would be up to risking $100k ++ on a converted coach with this approach but I think I'd give it a whirl if I wanted a parts bus.

[paul102a3]

What about a road trip into the US and then swap the drivetrain while it was here. Do you need to declare repairs in that type of situation?

Just a thought.

Paul

[Paso One]

Hi Brian
 Get a copy ( on Internet ) of document # RC 4140 importing as vehicle into Canada

According to the section 2 general all MCI buses are admissable into Canada. (except the RTS that they manufactured at one time on a special contract.)

Also if the Bus was manufactured before Jan 1 1971 you have a easier cake walk. ( more Options)

The easiest method is bringing it in on a "salvage title"  you must make a declaration that your intended use is for disassembly.

I drove Fishbowl Brians bus across the border completly converted. ( including the hidden floor safe nobody knew about )

Bobofthenorth made a great point in his post  if you read it carefully

But your plan is to use it for parts anyway so its a no brainer.

[TomC]

While you can easily turbocharge an 8V-71 like I did and get 375hp with 1125lb/ft torque, the MT647 is only rated to 300hp and 800lb/ft torque, if I remember correctly.  While the HT740 is rated at 445hp and 1450lb/ft torque.  The 6V-92TA and HT740 is a really nice way to go. Good Luck, TomC

[Gary '79 5C]

Brian,

I am not positive, however I believe there is a length difference between the 644 & the 740 transmissions. I have been lead to believe the 644 is shorter, and that the 740 will not fit in a 5 series. I have seen many 5's, none with a 740.

I may be very incorrect here, as I have never ventured to pull/replace either. FWIW,

Best of Luck with you endeavors,

Gary

[luvrbus]

FWIW guys the factory setup for the MCI 5 was a 6V71 with a 740 the 8V71 was never offered with a automatic 



good luck

[TomC]

Gary- this is why we're suggesting the 6V-92TA with HT740 because of the length difference in transmissions. Good Luck, TomC