Trailer advice

John316 · October 28, 2009, 09:12:56 AM

We just sold our trailer that was rated for 14K, which is very nice.

Now we are looking at getting another one that is rated for 10K. What is your advice? How much can the bus pull? Can it pull the ten? I know the hitch has been discussed, so I will simply look in the archives.

We are looking at a 20 foot long trailer. What is the typical length restrictions?

Anybody know if we are going to have problems getting into and out of places (okay, I know this one. We will, and we are looking at a bat powered trailer mover).

This is more of a question for DaveG. How heavy can you load the torsion axles? Can you load them up to maximum capacity?

Thanks a lot guys.

God bless,

John

bevans6 · October 28, 2009, 10:03:24 AM

I've pulled and owned trailers like that for a couple of decades, so I know a little about trailers, but I haven't pulled one with a bus yet, so I will be looking at that advice closely.

My trailer is longer than yours, 24' plus a 4' vee nose, 30 feet ball to bumper. That puts me at about 66' over-all length, which is legal where I am, and real close to the 65' overall length that is common elsewhere. My feeling is 65' is long enough. One thing that people may not think about is rear overhang from the drive wheels and how it affects trailer tracking. My bus is a 35' single axle, and it has maybe 8 feet of overhang (never actually measured). When it turns a corner, the rear swing moves the ball of the trailer hitch over, so the trailer is tracking away from the inside of the turn a bit. That makes the trailer wheels track closer to the track of the bus drive wheels. A 40 foot dual axle bus will have maybe 12 feet of overhang from the drive wheels, which is what the rear of the bus pivots around. That means the ball of the trailer will be moved over even farther, and the trailer wheels will track even closer to the track of the bus, which is a good thing for maneuverability.

I like the torsion axles, and I spec them higher than the anticipated max load that I will carry. My trailer is a 10K rated load, and I have two 5200 lbs axles. Taking tongue weight into account, that's 15% over spec. I never carry over 8K actual. The trailer seems to handle well with the stiffer suspension. 10K rated is fairly high for a 20' trailer, mostly they come as standard with two 3500 lb axles, which is why I uprate them. The tires you get on the 5200 lb axles are at the very top of their rated weight capacity, as a rule, btw.

The motorhome guys have a rule of thumb of 1 hp per 100 lbs of total weight for acceptable performance. If you know your HP and weights, maybe that can help you decide if the bus will pull OK.

I have no idea about getting in and out of places, frankly it scares the cr*p out of me! But I will give it a try! Other people do it, so I figure I can do it too.

Brian

belfert · October 28, 2009, 10:42:35 AM

With a 45' coach you'll be over length in some states. (Presumably the 20' trailer length does not include the tongue.) Minnesota used to be 65' and yes, I have read forum posts on rv.net from people who said they got stopped just inside the MN border for over length. Minnesota recently went to 70' or 75' for maximum length.

You might not get stopped for your entire life, or you might get the officer who makes you drop the trailer and have it towed.

ruthi · October 28, 2009, 03:58:02 PM

Our bus is 40 ft, and we pull an 18 ft trailer right now, but with the new bus, which is 43, we are prob. going to get a 20ft trailer. We get in and out of places fairly easy. Stores, flying Js, etc. We rarely do camp grounds though.

John316 · October 29, 2009, 04:48:57 AM

We were talking about whether the frame would support the trailer, or not. I found some really rough drawings of the frame.

Dallas, there you go. What do you think? It does have a frame that runs front to back, from the drawing (I think).

I will try to get the pics posted.

God bless,

John

Just Dallas · October 29, 2009, 07:06:55 AM

Removed

John316 · October 29, 2009, 07:09:32 AM

Thanks for you input, Dallas. We will see what we end up doing. My guess is that we will end up pulling, simply because we don't have any other option....We are simply out of space.

Too bad that the frame is not better...

Now there is an advantage of Eagles, aye guys?

God bless,

John

bevans6 · October 29, 2009, 07:40:43 AM

One thing is to take a look at what you actually intend to carry in your trailer - sometimes the space is the issue and it doesn't weigh that much, and sometimes it's purely a weight thing, like a car that doesn't actually take up a lot of volume but weighs what it weighs.

What that means is you might be able to spec out a lighter trailer. A 20 foot trailer spec'd for a 10K gvwr may itself weigh as much at 4,000 lbs empty. I know that my trailer is close to 4,600 lbs empty but for a spare tire, which is about 400 lbs more than the label says. so you may be able to economise on weight there. Also, going to an aluminium frame trailer is possible, ATC has a good line of those, and from talking to people a 20 ft trailer could be as little as 2800 lbs empty.

I'm also looking at trailers right now, thinking of trading my 28' car trailer for a 20 ft model.

Brian

rv_safetyman · October 29, 2009, 07:54:15 AM

Actually John, Eagles also have the same issue. The whole engine support system is a square tubing structure. Some of the structure is "hung" from the roof structure. Like to admit it or not, the tubing in Eagles can and does rust. The rust compromises the structure. Good old miles also compromises the structure a bit via the fatigue process.

I have gathered a few thoughts about big trailers at: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Trailer%20Towing.htm

Every time I bring this up, there will be folks jump on my case about being an an "over zealous engineer". I was glad to see that Dallas is among the concerned group. I have lots of tales about problems, but I just try to present the facts as I see them.

On the page cited above, I list some dollies that will convert the vertical load to a horizontal load that our buses are better capable of handling.

Jim

John316 · October 29, 2009, 08:13:23 AM

Well, it looks like we are changing everything. We are going to go with a 8X12 trailer, because of length restriction (it is all Brian's fault

). We would be over length in some states. Of course, the trailer has to be custom built....

The 12 get's us a lot closer. How do you guys up there in Orygon work the 50 max length? How hard is it to get a permit?

God bless,

John

bevans6 · October 29, 2009, 08:20:37 AM

from what I've heard on other forums, and it gets discussed a lot, the accepted path forward is ignore the limit, don't do anything that draws attention to you, don't get caught, etc.

Brian

busshawg · October 29, 2009, 09:48:25 AM

I'm not about to give advice about your bus or hitch, I got a welding shop to put my hitch on, however I did buy a Pace America van body trailer. I was nearly new. The PO bought it in California and pulled it home to Manitoba with a golf cart in it, the floor was still spotless when I got it. After our first trip with our harley in it the angle iron that hold the ribs down to the the frame broke, teh body lifted and came back down creasing the sides of the trailer. I dismantles and fixed it myself , placing wide pieces of stainless along the bottom to cover most of the severe damage. It is a 14 ft tandem trl. I have never seen such poor craftmanship. I did contact Pace America and they told me I was on my own as I am not teh original owner. What a cheap pice of *****

Grant

John316 · October 29, 2009, 09:59:00 AM

Brian, I know that there are people out there that operate like that, but we try to abide by the laws. Also, it just takes one county mounty, and we are toast (we travel enough, we would probably find him).

Grant, I know what you mean about Pace America. A lot of their trailers are junk. That is why ours we will probably have custom built, that way it is built strong enough.

God bless,

John

bevans6 · October 29, 2009, 10:41:19 AM

John, I find myself oddly addicted to following laws to the very best of my ability these days too. I just this morning did a deal to buy a tow dolly with surge brakes because, while I'm legal flat towing my car without brakes here, and in most of the states that I commonly travel to, there are one or two I visit that have a lower limit on max trailer weight without brakes. Problem solved, dolly has brakes.

I have no idea when I became such a law abiding citizen. It snuck up on me!

Brian

ArtGill · October 29, 2009, 05:25:03 PM

I know in NC if the trailer is rated for over 10,000 pounds, you will need an A license. If the combined vehicle is rated for over 28,000 pounds you will need a CDL A. I'm not positive on the 28,000 figure. And that is rated, not actual weight. After a saltwater fishing tournament, the DMV jumped a number of trucks towing boat trailers and cited them for improper drivers licenses and over width. Many of the trailers were rated for over 10,000 and the dually pickups put them over the 28,000. And if they had any sign of a sponsor on the side of the boat, the DMV guys considered it to be a commercial vehicle. They stepped on enough toes in one season that some of the laws concerning oversize were changed the next year.

Art