Liability for the volunteer mechanic

[lostagain]

As I have posted before, I am the volunteer mechanic and driver for our hockey team's bus.

I am a qualified and experienced bus driver with the proper licenses.

I am however an amateur mechanic of the shade tree variety.

At our last meeting last week, I raised the subject of liability because I want to make sure I am covered in case of my negligence.

As the driver, the bus insurance covers me or any other qualified driver.

We are looking into wether an injury to a passenger, or other road user, or damage to property at the result of improper maintenance or repair to the bus, should be a concern. It was mentioned at the meeting that commercial vehicles are often maintained by non licensed mechanics at the company owned shop.

Our bus is DOT inspected every 6 month as a commercial vehicle.

As an example, I had a front wheel off last week to replace a leaky bearing seal. That also involves loosening the slack adjuster, then readjusting after the wheel is back on. I know I have done it correctly, but what if... a player got hurt in a accident resulting from my negligence and or ignorance, their lawyer would be all over us, and me.

What do you think?

JC

[bobofthenorth]

First off I'm not a lawyer.  And second there's no perfect defense against a runaway lawyer.

It seems to me that there are only 2 things you can do to protect yourself.  The first is to not have deep pockets.  If you are loaded then you'll get sued regardless of what else you do.  If there's nothing to go after then they will go somewhere else for the easier returns. 

The second is to have honest intentions.  I don't know what the legal term is but essentially you need to use your best efforts.  Virtually every vehicle on the road is maintained to some degree by non-licensed mechanics.  If you add brake fluid, change a tire or a windshield wiper you have done something that could have safety implications.  Obviously if you have never lifted a wrench in your life you shouldn't rebuild the brakes on the team bus but that's not the situation.  Keep good records and don't worry about it.  If you are really concerned about it then extend the record keeping to your own professional development as an amateur mechanic and keep records of your reading and any informal apprenticeship under licensed mechanics.

[Zeroclearance]

JC, your good hearted nature to "help" keep expenses down might and will be the first thing brought up "IF" there becomes a accident.   It might not even be your fault, by doing serviced repairs you are accepting liability.   As you start to do more work the scope increases.     

If you are driving for a Hockey club, or semi pro team> someone must be in charge of the purse.   With sports there is always money for equipment.    When the bus is "down" for repairs, the cost for a charter or renting "vans" usually will motivate someone to pass the hat to get the repairs done.   

Changing the oil and grabbing the grease gun would be the extent of the work that I would do on a commercial bus.   If anything happened "you" will be the target.    You have enough on your plate when driving the team.    And doing the wrenching for free doesn't escape your liability if the bus involved in a accident.   

[lostagain]

The hockey club is a non profit organization. So we have no money.

My wife and I have some assets that they could come after in a worst case scenario.

I do keep records of everything I do, and I follow procedures to the letter from the MCI service manual and other publications. When in doubt, I get advice from professional mechanics.

I am waiting for answers from our lawyer and insurance company.

I've been doing it for years and not worried about it till my wife brought it up the other day. Maybe she thinks I'm spending too much time at it...

JC

[jackhartjr]

Talk to two or three insurance agents.
Between them you will get an idea of what coverage is needed.
Jack

[jackhartjr]

JC, I did not fully read your last post.
You are already doing the best thing you can do to mitigate losses.
You are documenting what you do and going by the MCI book.
In the case of an accident...at least in the states...not sure how it works up there...if an attorney decided to sue, he would in all likleyhood get the records, and then seeing that they are that thorough decide not to go further.
Or he may depose you and if you are in any way articulate...and looking at your posts you are...decide again to go no further.
I would still talk to more than one insurance agent.
My 2 cents!
Jack

[bevans6]

My take, based on what I've learned about how things are done up here, and just an opinion...

Your hockey bus is a commercial enterprise.  Non profit or not, it is not a personal vehicle, it's transporting children, it's owned by a corporation or non-incorporated entity.  As such you would have to comply with all regulations in your state that regulate commercial enterprises operating buses.  I would say at least that if you work on the bus, particularly on the brakes or air systems, or other safely related systems, and you aren't licensed to do so, you are putting your "everything" on the line.  It's probably illegal, and you are probably open to relatively undefensible litigation.  Mind you, you can probably shift the responsibility to the hockey club and put it under, if can prove you were operating as an agent or employee of the club. 

Non-profit doesn't mean that it doesn't have any money, it means that it can't retain money as profit.  I would take your bus to a professional, licensed company for a complete safety check and certification prior to ever allowing anyone to ride on it again.  if your organization doesn't have money, then pay for it yourself.  And find out what the regulations concerning such vehicles are!  Guessing just doesn't cut it!  I would imagine that you would have to comply with the same maintenance regulations as a charter bus or school bus company.

Mind you, I may just be paranoid...

Brian

[Lin]

I would say that you are not only civilly liable but could even be criminally liable.  Even if you win a case, it could bankrupt you.  An example I could give is of a trucker who lost his brakes coming down Hwy 17, into Santa Cruz, Ca.  I even think he had stopped to adjust his brakes before the grade.  He slammed into some cars and a baby was killed.  He ended up with a year jail time plus who knows what else.

It won't matter how nice a guy you have been and what sacrifices you have made getting someone's kid to a hockey game.  If something happens, the parents, at the very least, are going to be looking to blame someone.  Even though it will not hold up in court, try seeing how many parents would be willing to sign a document saying that they will hold you harmless for any accident or lose.  I would be surprised if any did.

[kyle4501]

Sounds to me more like fear of having to fund someone else's winning of the litigation lottery.

Look, you can't justify doing anything (or even nothing at all) based on that fear.
Look at the insane judgements awarded for stupid acts - anyone remember the huge judgement to the little old lady for the spilled coffee?
Nevermind the facts - a relative was driving, it was a sports car, etc - - - Just go after the one with the deepest pockets. . . 


The saddest part of this is the good deeds left undone due to this fear.


How's this for an idea?

Is riding in the bus mandatory? If not, I'd suggest getting a good liability waiver form for all to sign before they can ride. If someone isn't comfortable with the release, they can provide their own transportation to the events.

[Runcutter]

In running transit systems, two of the insurances we always carried were "Garage Liability" and "Garage Keepers Legal Liability."  It's been almost 25 years since I had to deal with transit insurance coverages, so something may have changed.  These might be worth investigating.  I've forgotten the details of which policy covers what.  If I remember, though, the GKLL covers the maintainer in event the repaired vehicle is involved in a wreck.    

The liability waivers might do something if your passengers are injured, but wouldn't cover third parties.  The best thing you can do is investigate insurance coverages, and legal status.  

On a slightly different note, some years ago I developed a church bus drivers' safety program.  Simply, I got fed up with volunteer drivers killing kids haphazardly, through ignorance of common bus driver skills (how to run in convoy, etc.).  I had very little interest, with at least one pastor saying that if his volunteer drivers realized how much liability they had, they'd stop volunteering.

Since you're dealing with a non-profit group, would the church bus insurance coverage model be helpful?  I'd suspect some of them use volunteer mechanics.  

What would I do in a similar situation?   Probably wipers, lights, oil changes, etc.  I wouldn't touch wheels, brakes, suspension.  That's just me.  If you want a wake-up, read the National Transportation Safety Board report on the sinking of a DUKW - with fatalities.  The maintenance write-up starts on page 33.  

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/MAR0201.pdf

Arthur

[lostagain]

Well, this is becoming scary!

We operate this bus to take our team to the games. We also as I stated, have a commercial charter license and run charters for money.
The bus gets DOT inspected every 6 months. We comply to every legal requirement there is, like any other commercial bus company. I know a lot of trucking companies that do their own maintenance by unlicensed mechanics like myself.
AFAIK, and I am verifying this with our lawyer, in Canada, you have to be proven negligent before you are found liable. As I pointed out above, I document everything I do, and I make sure all is done correctly by the book, so negligence on my part is unlikely.

I am waiting for advice from the lawyer. If he says I am at a significant risk, I'll get the club to buy insurance to cover me.

JC

[NJT 5573]

JC,

Your right about the Trucking Companys doing all their own shop work, but we still look out for the public. I have a $2,000,000 General Liability Policy that stands between me and anything I may do wrong by mistake or foolishness. This policy is on top of several others I carry. It is not very expensive should the worst happen. It costs me $500 a year.

Buy some insurance, if something ever did happen you would want the resourses available to take care of everyone.

[bevans6]

If you're in Canada, then it might be relevant that in Ontario, ony certified technicians may repair or adjust manual brake slack adjusters.  Drivers can take a course to become certified.  This does not permit you to manually adjust automatic slack adjusters, you need a truck and coach technicians certification for that.  this applies to all commercial vehicles with air brakes.  If you're doing charters or carrying passengers, that includes you.  I really think you're noot allowed to do what you've been doing.  In Ontario, you need to have the coach inspected (under body) monthly, or every 12K KM's

Brian

[Don Fairchild]

JC;

From the job you did on your bus I would you are far from a shade tree mechanic.

I can't help you with rest of your concern. sorry

Don

[loosenut]

Njt gave you good advice.  If Canada is similar to the US you should have general liability coverage.  As a small business owner I purchased general liability insurance for $80.00 per year per million.

It was good approach to peace of mind.  I worked in the environmental industry for several years.  It is funded by law suits.  I went to several seminars to see what the lawyers were targeting.

Once you have coverage the insurance company has more to lose than you do...err rather than I did.

Sleep tight,

Mike