tag axle update

busshawg · August 25, 2009, 08:54:06 AM

Thanks Sojourner, I am am maybe taking too big of a bite. As you mentioned maybe small increments rather than full movements back and forth might be the answer, I'll give it a try tonight.

JohnEd · August 25, 2009, 05:41:59 PM

Grant,

What caused the problem in the first place? No grease in the tag suspension?

I have installed supplemental zirks in bushings in the past. The drilling isn't complicated as the parts are so large and the drilled hole isn't a problem. I just drilled to the depth needed to lube the bushing and threaded the hole to accept the zirk pipe thread. Worked for me. In your case it would provide a port for you to inject the rust buster.

If you have hardened grease and rust packed into the bush I am concerned that you will never get straight grease to move past that jam. You have no choice but to do what you Are doing now..at least...as far as I can see.

Good luck on this,

John

busshawg · August 26, 2009, 06:46:28 AM

Thanks John, yes I believe it was a lack of grease and use from the previous owner. Thank goodness I was able to get everything else working , greased properly. I am actually taking the pancake clamp apart so I can get in there and clean it up with some solvent or something. The idea of an extra grease zerk is a good one I believe. Especially while I have it apart, easy to do on the work bench. I started last night and with a little heat I was able to get all the bolts to break free. The only one that required heat was the large bolt that is bolted to the axle, top centre.

Grant

Sojourner · August 26, 2009, 10:06:49 AM

Quote from: JohnEd on August 25, 2009, 05:41:59 PM
Grant,

What caused the problem in the first place? No grease in the tag suspension?

I have installed supplemental zirks in bushings in the past. The drilling isn't complicated as the parts are so large and the drilled hole isn't a problem. I just drilled to the depth needed to lube the bushing and threaded the hole to accept the zirk pipe thread. Worked for me. In your case it would provide a port for you to inject the rust buster.

If you have hardened grease and rust packed into the bush I am concerned that you will never get straight grease to move past that jam. You have no choice but to do what you Are doing now..at least...as far as I can see.

Good luck on this,

John

Quote
What caused the problem in the first place? No grease in the tag suspension?

The real problem is not grease often enough to flush out the road grime & water.

A farmer have to grease his single or double disk or anything that get the fine dust and dirt out every morning before to the field.

After a day or 2, you the bus owner usually will see water & rust compound coming out while greasing.

In other words, if see water or unwanted compound leak out...keep pumping grease in until it is OK. At least if you never see anything not bad coming out...you know it properly lube for the next dusty and heavy rainy day.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

busshawg · August 26, 2009, 02:36:04 PM

Yep , I agree and understand this, the problem is that the tag axles in general don't have a lot of travel. Therefore the grease only seems to come out clean at the point of least resitance, leaving at least half of the bushing with old dirty grease in it. I have already pumped about 15 tubes of grease through it, and it does not appear to travelling around the bushing area. I really don't think I have any other choice that to take it a part and clean it properly, that way hopefully I can get new grease into all of the vital areas. It will also give me a chance to inspect it for abnormal wear, and place another zerk in the problem area. I picked up an air nozel for my compressor that will also blow what ever chemical one chooses, I picked a 5 gallon pail of solvent, we'll see what happens tonight. I hope at least some of you after reading about these problems have gone out and greased all the points on your tag axles. I also believe there are several buses running around out there with seized tags without the operator being awae of it. I think when greasing the tag axles a person should always do as Sojourner has suggested below.

busshawg...to get grease work it ways around the moisture & dried grease (dirt) faster. Is to back up over & return over a 2x4 a few times. Now try 2x4+1"wood a few times. When working well it should be able to over 4x4 with out sticking up.

Keep greasing after 3 time until clean grease shows

This will allow the grease to travel around the shaft better, before someone else has this problem, it will also make you aware of any travel issues in the tag axle.

Grant

JackConrad · August 27, 2009, 05:09:32 AM

Grant,
You mentioned the pancake assembly. Are you also greasing the zerks on the cross-over tube? Jack

busshawg · August 27, 2009, 06:11:00 AM

Yep , I sure am, the grease comes out of the vent immediatly and I believe I have flushed all the old grease out as there is clean grease coming out.

After working on it last night I believe I will have to pull the axle. I took the pancake clamp right off to find old dirty grease. I cleaned it all out using a scraper, solvent etc. Arount the round ring that is located at the pivot point was espeacially dirty. The ring is now moving freely and I have it quite clean. However there is no improvement to the movement. So I guess it's the foot long bushing in the axle tube that is giving me grieve. My question is now what all is involved in removing this axle. I believe the pancake clamp that I have already removed is to prevent the axle from sliding out. So I will remove the air bag and air line for the brakes. I beleive this is all that needs to be done to get it out?? Is there any other clips etc. that will prevent the axle from sliding out? I did hook a chain to the axle and secured it to a tractor and trying winching it out, but it never moved. Although I didn't put alot of pressure on it nor did I try too hard as I wasn't sure if there is something else holding it in. I imagine after I apply pressure to the chain to pull it out I will also need to heat the axle tube to get it out. Any advice pls???

Grant

JackConrad · August 27, 2009, 06:31:31 AM

Grant,
If you have removed both halves of the clamp that fits on the end of the crossover tube, the axle should come out (with air lines, air bag, and shock absorber removed). Removing the brake shoes and brake spider assembly reduces the weight you have to hande when the tag axle comes out, but it is still very heavy. Jack

buswarrior · August 27, 2009, 06:37:33 AM

VERY HEAVY!!! Like over the borderline young man foolishness heavy.

Jack's right, strip as much as you can. Depending on what's left of your guts, you may need some props and supports to manhandle it. Or a bit of hydraulics, a forklift, tranny jack, etc.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

busshawg · August 27, 2009, 06:43:36 AM

Thanks a bunch guys, I have a front end loader on my tractor that will use. Any tricks to cleaning the inside of the tube when I do finally get it out? I presume I'm right about possible needing heat on the tube? I won't damage anything internally?

Grant

johns4104s · August 27, 2009, 06:57:15 AM

Grant,

I think from remembering old posts on the subject, you will need to replace the bushing.

John

busshawg · August 27, 2009, 07:03:25 AM

Thanks John

busshawg · August 27, 2009, 07:42:32 AM

One more question, where is the movement, between the axle and the bushing or between the bushing and the tube, supposed to be.

Grant

JackConrad · August 27, 2009, 08:30:55 AM

Movement should be between the tag axle and the bushing. The bushing is a press fit (freeze the bushing before installing it) into the crossover tube. Jack

busshawg · August 27, 2009, 09:00:13 AM

Thanks once again Jack, that's what I thought but I've had surprises before. I will attempt this tonight. I heard you have done this before, a lot of trial and error? or how did you find out about the trick of freezing the bushing. Great idea , How the hec did you get the bushing out?