Injector Cutout Test for evaluating a used engine?

[belfert]

Man, every time I read about Series 60 engines I start to worry about my engine.  I do everything to treat it right, but who knows about the last owner?  My coach had so many issues at the start (since fixed) that I doubt they paid much attention to the engine.  It would probably be game over for me right now if I needed a replacement Series 60 engine.

I think Jim did most of the hard work when he installed his Series 60 so swapping in another one should be a piece of cake compared to the initial install.  He already has the motor mounts and all the other modifications made.

[DaveG]

Hey Belfert, if you or anyone here blows a S60 and wants to sell their coach, let me know! I have a S60 that needs a home...unfortunately it is condition unknown, as the truck I got it in was in a fire and I was not privy to the overall condition before the fire...only assume it to be a runner...as a side note, I do have a nice low mile Cat C-12 with jakes....have all maintenance records since new...too bad my driver totaled the truck last month, now I gotta find something to do with the S60 and the C-12!

[NJT 5573]

Jim,

I still would rebuild your engine, were it me. I just would not give anyone $15,000 for a rebuild, I would do it myself and maybe hire a little help here and there.

You have alot of good parts. Your crank is good, your block is basically good, (needs 2 counterbores cut at most), may pass with shims only, if one of those two dropped holes were not the bad gasket hole. No need to pull crank and strip block for a line bore, that was never a problem. Your head is good, turbo good, etc.

I think you can get the 2 counterbores cut for a couple hundred. You need a inframe kit, aftermarket is $1995 from ardiesel.com. My local diesel machine shop regrinds camshafts for under $200 and you should be able to get a comparable price in your area, (and yes, it is a common practice). Don't know what you will pay for the cam follower, but probably less than $100. Head bolts are spendy, but you probably won't find wear on all of them, lets say $125 for head bolts. Don't know if its cheaper to put your 2 questionable injectors on a stand or get rebuilt @$200 each. Some injector shop should be able to look yours over for less than $400.

Still thats all your machine work and parts for under $2900.

The gaskets all come with the inframe kit.

What did I miss? If you can find some experienced help with a liner tool, @ $20 hr, or so, 50 hours should have it back in the coach. Is that within your budget? You could spend a little more and get a genuine DD rebuild kit, guess I'd ask who makes the $1995 deal, I'd probably go for Sealed Power though.

[rv_safetyman]

Wow, not too sure where to begin with my comments.  We have had terrible Internet for the last few days, plus we are dog tired from the show and some local activities.  Still on the road and will not be home for 3 or 4 days.

Brian, in this thread and one of the others, you have expressed some concern about your engine.  I am pretty sure that my engine had some poor maintenance.  Probably had car type antifreeze, lots of idle time and who know how often the oil was changed.  I am told that these engines are really robust.  I can't recall how many miles your engine has one it, but if it is under 500K, I would not worry.  If it is over 500K, I would think about having someone roll in the rod and main bearings.  That would tell you a lot about the engine and get rid of one worry item.  It is a pretty easy job for someone that knows what they are doing.

When I bought the engine, it had something like 670K (can't find my printout and data was lost when we switched ECMs).  I am finding out that at about 700K SOME Series 60s start having problems.  One site that someone sent me to had perhaps 25 Series 60s and almost all in the 700K plus range had problems.

NJT, my engine has a ton of issues.  The head has some "wear" where the combustion got by the liner/gasket.  The valves are pretty recessed.  Two injectors are shot.  The bull gear is due to be replaced.  Then, of course, the cam and follower are bad.

I have done several gas engine rebuilds, but I would just not feel comfortable running an engine that I rebuilt while "in training".  I don't know of any mechanic that I could call to help me.  I have one contact and I might explore that avenue, but the probability of rebuilding it is slim.

Back to maintenance.  As someone pointed out, you can learn a lot for the bearings.  I had new bearings rolled in, but they tossed the old ones before I could look at them.  I did drop one rod cap to make sure they did the R&R.

Probably missed a comment or two.

I am leaning towards a used engine that I can check the background on (thanks to Clifford and friend!!!!!).

Jim

[belfert]

Brian, in this thread and one of the others, you have expressed some concern about your engine.  I am pretty sure that my engine had some poor maintenance.  Probably had car type antifreeze, lots of idle time and who know how often the oil was changed.  I am told that these engines are really robust.  I can't recall how many miles your engine has one it, but if it is under 500K, I would not worry.  If it is over 500K, I would think about having

I believe my engine has somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 miles on it.  The DDEC appears to have been replaced shortly before I bought the bus as it had something like 49 hours on it when purchased.  I think the 300,000 number came from the odometer, but who knows if it was original as the speedo was reading way high.  The overall condition of the coach other than maintenace items plus the number of years sitting made me believe the odometer.  The engine had been run for some time with a pretty blocked up air intake that I rectified before I even got the got coach home.

My friend had a semi tractor with Series 60 with over 1 million miles and the engine had never been touched so I am not terribly worried about my engine.

What is car antifreeze versus diesel antifreeze?  I have been running the plain old green stuff.  My first replacement coolant was from a Freightliner dealer so I suspect it was the right stuff.  My round of coolant was the plain green stuff from a auto parts place down the block from home.

I hope your search for a replacement engine goes well.

[rv_safetyman]

Brian, probably someone else will give you a better answer on the antifreeze, but here is my take on all of the reading that I have done.  Diesel antifreeze is a special low silicate version of ethylene glycol.  It has additives that are called SCA, which must be kept at a minimum level.  All of this is to prevent cavitation of the liners.

The OEMs and "experts" really hammer home the need to have the proper antifreeze in the engine.  You probably saw the results of cavitation on my liners at: http://rvsafetysystems.com/Engine_problems.htm.  At least one person said that the amount I have is "typical".  I question that, as the pitting was almost half way through the liner.

I think there has been quite a bit written on this board about the subject.

You don't use your bus a heck of a lot, but I would be tempted to change the antifreeze.

Update:  I just started a thread on the subject of antifreeze:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=12775.0

Jim

[belfert]

I have been adding SCA to my coolant as required.  Precharged coolant costs more than just adding SCA. 

The bus garage was supposed to test my coolant as it was on my list, but I don't think it was on the invoice.  I'll have to call them today.

[RTS/Daytona]

JIM

Have you looked at EBAY today


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DETROIT-DIESEL-SERIES-60-USED-DIESEL-ENGINE_W0QQitemZ370240870482QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5634135852&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-4-Detroit-Diesel-Reliablit-Series-60-Eng-Freightliner_W0QQitemZ160353650759QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2555d28847&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245


? - what do ya think ??

Just trying to help

Pete RTS/Daytona