Alcoas.....worth the money?

LarryN 4106 · June 21, 2009, 01:27:13 PM

I direct this question to those who wrote a check for alcoas for their bus. Those that already had them on a bus they acquired can chime in on if they can tell any difference.

Before I pull the trigger, I would like to know whether you thought they were worth the money. My other experience with them was when I had my GMC Motorhome. I thought that I had a "truer" ride than with the steel rims. Of course, in that case and this case, I will be also adding new tires.

So, what do y'all think?

gmpd4104 · June 21, 2009, 01:51:19 PM

less unsrung weiht equals better ride and handling........is it measurable....probably....is it worth it for a motorhome...prob not.

less weight equals better MPG......again....on a motorhome is it worth it....prob not.....trucker doing
200k miles a year......and the ability to add the saved weight to his possible payload......sure.

I always found that nicely painted steel wheels are very attractive. with the hubs painted a contrasting color.

skolbibp · June 21, 2009, 02:42:51 PM

Wheel simulators may be another option.

Steve

LarryN 4106 · June 21, 2009, 02:58:59 PM

already got wheel simulators.........

thanks, tho.....

RickB · June 21, 2009, 05:48:32 PM

Alcoa's = lot's of maintenance. I polish mine two times a year, it is a long process.

They do look good when you're done though

Rick

gmpd4104 · June 21, 2009, 06:00:58 PM

some years ago alcoa came out with the Durabright series...pretty much maint free other than sponge washing them when doing the vehicle

Sean · June 21, 2009, 06:17:06 PM

I switched from steel to aluminum and would not go back.

In my case, I had hub caps that precluded me from doing basic safety checks at routine stops -- I could not get to the lug nuts or the valve stems without removing the hub caps, which required removing a trim cap and then two nuts and washers.

As long as I was buying wheels, I took the opportunity to switch from 8.25" to 9" rims. I had to keep steel wheels on the inner duals, because my pilots were not long enough for dual aluminum, so I also bought a pair of used 9" steel rims to go with the new 9" aluminum ones.

I have the Durabright finish -- never need to polish, just wash them along with the rest of the bus.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

Garymci5 · June 21, 2009, 10:31:07 PM

I put Alcoa's on the front of an Eagle 05. In retrospect I'd not do it again. All the studs were replaced because of the much thicker aluminum wheel. It required removal of the drums and 2 burly guys with a 1" impact gun and massive sledge hammer to do the job.

In terms of weight: I lifted both wheel types and could not tell a difference-- about 75 lbs or so.

Benefit, aside from looking nice....? Maybe they absorb heat better than steel does and might help to cool brakes a smidge. Then again, thats more heat put into the tires, not exactly a first choice on a hot summer day on a long descent.

Alloy's do have a finite life, however it's probably not a concern for bus RV'ers. The bead seat becomes worn which requires the wheel to be taken out of service. If left unattended it could be fatally dangerous, especially on a steer wheel, should the rim bead blow off. On more thing, the Alloys tend to crack, mostly due to over tightened lugnuts, I'm told and should be periodically inspected.

It's starting to sound rather high maintenance.....think I just talked myself out of "upgrading" the MCI

Hope this helps. Let us know what you do.

Gary

Sean · June 21, 2009, 11:01:42 PM

Quote from: Garymci5 on June 21, 2009, 10:31:07 PM
... All the studs were replaced because of the much thicker aluminum wheel. It required removal of the drums and 2 burly guys with a 1" impact gun and massive sledge hammer to do the job. ...

If you have stud-piloted wheels (sometimes called "Budd wheels") you may need to change to longer studs.

If you have hub-piloted wheels, it's not necessary. Alcoa sells a wheel with oversized lug holes, and "sleeve nuts" that reach down through the oversized hole and engage the threads on your existing studs.

This is the route I took, since replacement studs in the correct length are simply not available for my bus. My inner steel duals have normal-size lug holes.

Of course, the sleeve nuts are expensive -- just as much as a new set of studs, maybe more. But the back-breaking job of changing studs can be avoided altogether. IIRC, the wheels with the oversized holes are the same price as ones with conventional holes.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

belfert · June 22, 2009, 04:25:18 AM

I see a commercial Van Hool coach at least once a week with aluminum wheels, but it appears they didn't use longer studs. None of the stud sticks out from nut and in fact the stud is probably 1/2" short.

I hope this gets caught at the next DOT inspection as it appears to be an accident waiting to happen. Be sure you use long enough studs.

DaveG · June 22, 2009, 06:43:11 AM

This method has been done for years and continues to do so. I am not aware of anyone in the heavy duty industry that has been cited for it, nor am I aware of any problems that have been encountered. Not the best choice, but it is out there anyway.

belfert · June 22, 2009, 07:02:54 AM

If having lug nuts that do not go all the way onto the stud isn't causing problems why does everyone say to install longer studs?

TomC · June 22, 2009, 08:02:48 AM

On my first truck, I changed out the rear 8 wheels from steel to aluminum (

and the quality of ride increased noticeably. With less unsprung weight, when I went over a bump, there was less pounding. Ever since virtually every heavy vehicle I've had has polished aluminum.
I now use a polish with a second coat of a sealer. I haven't polished my wheels in 2 years-while a bit dull, still look quite nice. Really makes a difference with the sealer. Good Luck, TomC

bobofthenorth · June 22, 2009, 08:06:55 AM

Quote from: TomC on June 22, 2009, 08:02:48 AM
I now use a polish with a second coat of a sealer. I haven't polished my wheels in 2 years-while a bit dull, still look quite nice. Really makes a difference with the sealer. Good Luck, TomC

Care to name names Tom? I had mine polished in Mexico and they are looking dull already - clearly I need to do something more but I don't know what to do.

Garymci5 · June 22, 2009, 08:31:50 AM

Quote from: belfert on June 22, 2009, 07:02:54 AM
If having lug nuts that do not go all the way onto the stud isn't causing problems why does everyone say to install longer studs?

That's an innocent enough question......(not picking on Belfert, but for anyone who has/had the same thought)
Call it luck, at best. Common sense (I know it's rare nowadays) would indicate that a fastener not fully engaged will be compromised.

When I tested bicycles (some were over $5,000) for a large company the spec for thread engagement was 1.5X the diameter. Meaning that if a fastener was 6mm in diameter, the nut would go on 9mm, at minimum. This would leave a couple threads or more extended past the nut, or more.

I built my engine with ARP fasteners (almost "everyone" uses them on race or hi-po engines), their instructions were along this guideline. For example when installing the crank studs it was emphasize to not bottom the studs in the block, but to set them based on the nuts' thread engagement. If I remember correctly, ARP states to have at least 2 or 3 threads past the nut. Full thread contact is critical. Due to most fastener design it will taper at the end, making the last couple threads somewhat useless in a high load situation-- therefore this must be accounted for. The end or tip of a bolt with also get a very high concentration of load or stress (mostly due to tensile load).

You might be able to find a picture showing finite analysis where the color temperature between the stress areas will offer some very good visual clues.

It also shouldn't be hard to find other hard data regarding fastener interface, check ISO, DIN, JIS, SAE organization specs for more information-- don't take my word for it.

That's my 3 cents worth (inflation you know!)

Gary