Dash instrument clusters: what is important and what is just nice to have?

[Paladin]

I'm not near ready yet but for giggles on a rainy day I'm kind of mapping out how I'd like to populate my R&M dash when I finally get to installing it.

I have two 7" flat panel monitors I need to mount, one is part of the stereo and flips out and takes camera and GPS inputs and the other is a Voyager panel, this will be primary, the stereo and monitor are not so important.  For those who have a preference, what is your preferred location for your backup\side cam monitor so it's easily viewable and yet not in the way?

Now as for gauges, what would you guys rank in order as being crucial, important and then just nice to have and how have you or would you like to orient yours on your dash for scanning them? What types of temp and pressure gauges are essential and what is just nice to have? If you aren't running boost then is a pyrometer\EGT still important on a DD and if so, how much so?

I'd like to orient them kind of in groups of importance so you don't have to see extraneous info when you're scanning the essentials.

Those of you who have driven professionally, is there a typical or standard placement? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to mount everything in the surface area provided.

   

[belfert]

I put my LCD backup camera monitor on top of the dash.  It happens to be about where a rearview mirror would be, just not as high.

As an aside I do notice that my backup camera doesn't show things in quite the right perspective.  If I depended only on the camera when backing I would hit things.  The camera is mostly to be sure no cars or people are behind if backing up and to monitor the trailer.  I suspect camera is mounted too high, but really not sure.

Gauges most buses have are speedo, voltmeter, tach, air pressure (two), and coolant temp.  Older buses may not have a tach.  Newer buses will usually have a fuel gauge.

[Len Silva]

Here's my list, more or less in priority order.

Speedometer
Air pressure front and rear
Oil pressure
Engine temperature (Both banks on a V)
Oil Temperature
Voltmeter
Tachometer
Fuel gauge
Fuel Pressure
Exhaust Temperature (if turboed)
Boost  (if turboed)
Transmission Temperature (if auto)
Outside temperature
Clock

I would have the speedometer and tach pretty much in the center (they are probably larger than the others) and all the critical engine and air pressure gauges either across the top or in one cluster on the side. All the less critical gauges can go where ever they will fit.

If you use a volt meter, I like the way Eagle did it.  They wired the gauge directly to the batteries through a relay operated by the run switch.  That will show the actual voltage at the batteries without the voltage drop that may be at the instrument panel.  Be sure to put a fuse at the battery connection.

[HB of CJ]

In the middle or center there would be the big, round 120 mph speedo and the 3500 rpm tack, both Stwart Warner.  In fact, if possible, all the gauges would be matching SW, which might not be possible.  Would like the white needles.

Set close and above the speed and tack would be the almost equally big duel gage showing boost and pyrometer temps.  Then way off to the left end of the dash would be the two air pressure gages and the one air application gage.

Next to the right would be the oil pressure, oil temperature and water temperature gages.  Then would come the forementioned speedo, tack and boost/pryro gages.  Then next to the right would be the fuel injection pressure, fuel transfer pressure...

...and the single fuel level gage with a toggle switch to switch both senders and feeds.  Next to the right would be the volt gage, amp gage and air cleaner restriction gage.  With all that stuff, keeping track of stuff would be easy as pie or almost sooss.

The other necessary stuff like the water and holding tank gages, along with the gen set oil pressure, oil temp and water temp gages, battery voltage and amperage, invertor stuff and everything else would be mounted KINDA away from the dash.  HB of CJ

gage stuff Post

[uncle ned]

i would put the engine water tempture on top and in big letters.  cost a bunch if you don't watch.

don't ask how i know

uncle ned

[Paladin]

Some great info so far, has anyone got any experience to recommend one brand or type of gauge over others?  A neat gauge in a great spot does no good if it reads incorrectly.

I agree that a water temp gauge is ranked pretty highly as well as oil pressure and one I'd want them to be right where I could see them and be good quality and size.
How important is oil temp where it pertains to DD's in the grand scheme of things? I know what's important on cars but not so much really on a Detroit Diesel or a bus.
How important is monitoring the trans temp on an Allison? Do they run hot?


HB: A 120 speedo? really? I'll make sure not to ride with you in your bus!   

[belfert]

I think some of you are going overboard with gauges.  A boost gauge is nice if you want to know if your turbo is failing or if you want to drive to save fuel.  A pyrometer doesn't really help unless you have turned up the engine to deliver more fuel.  What does knowing the oil temp help?  I'll admit I had pyro and boost in my pickup, but I also had the engine turned up and needed to monitor the pyro.

Wouldn't running Silverleaf on a PC replace the need for some of these gauges if the coach is new enough?

I forgot that I do have an oil pressure gauge also.  The tach and speedo are front and center with other gauges off to the side.

I would like to build a whole new dash, but I need to figure out the issues with the windshield.  The formed fiberglass of the dash goes right up to the windshield opening and the windshield seal goes over the fiberglass.  I also lost my metal fabricator who could help with some parts of the dash.  (He got laid off and works as an engineering tech now.)

[Len Silva]

I know that some of the gauges I noted at the end of my list are a bit silly, but, if you like Bluebirds.....

I did forget brake application gauges in the latter category, might be nice to have.

I like VDO Vision line with the illuminated needle.  One of the difficulties is to find ALL of the gauges you may want in a single matching line.  VDO, SW, Isspro, all good.  The first thing to look for is the low (3000) RPM tach, many lines of auto gauges don't have them.

Someone here, as well as Ronthebusnut have had surplus motor home panels at one time or another.

[RJ]

Paladin -

Many busnuts have had good success with VDO & ISSPRO.  Seems Stewart Warner has fallen out of favor, not sure why, as they've been around forever.

I like the Vision series from VDO, or the EV-Auto White Pointer series from ISSPRO.  One thing I really like about the ISSPRO is that they offer electric gauges that have 270^o-sweep needles, which are much, much easier to read at a quick glance.  Here's a couple of links to a vendor of both lines for your perusal:

ISSPRO:  http://www.egauges.com/vdo_bld3.asp?Series=EVA

VDO:  http://www.egauges.com/vdo_bld.asp?Series=Vision

Be sure to stick to a tach with a 3,000 rpm limit, as they'll be easier to read, and anything over that rpm is wasted on a diesel application.  Watch the voltage - you should choose one that works on both 12v & 24v - same with senders, etc.

As for the dash layout, here's an approximation of what I'd prefer:


o o O ^{o o} O o o
o o              o o


Reading L to R, top row:  LH head water temp, RH head water temp, speedometer, primary air pressure, secondary air pressure, tachometer, transmission oil pressure, transmission oil temperature.
Bottom row, L to R:  Engine oil pressure, engine oil temperature, (steering column), voltmeter, ammeter.
The speedo and tach are the largest two gauges, and they're mounted on either side of the steering column, with the air pressure gauges slightly above and in between - all w/in direct line-of-sight from the driver's seat.

All house system gauges on an overhead panel - you, as the driver, don't really need to monitor them while behind the wheel on the road, not like you do the chassis systems.  On the section of the dash that's to the right (curved out), I'd put the back-up camera screen, GPS, radio, windshield wiper controls, air brake release valve, etc.

Keep in mind that, IIRC, the only gauges required by law are a speedo and air pressure - everything else is optional.

My dash idea's pretty basic, actually, but it monitors all the really essential items, with just a few little extras.  Heck, all my stock 4106 dash has is a speedo, plus air pressure, oil pressure & water temp gauges - talk about simple! 

FWIW & HTH. . .

[JackConrad]

   The only gauges I would say are absolutely necessary are speedometer, oil pressure, and water temperature (that was all that was in our OEM dash).  That said, I want to know as much as possible about how all systems are operating and , hopefully, pick up on any changes before they become major problems.
   We used Datcon gauges and have been very happy with them. Above the speedometer and tachometer are most of our warning lights (LOW OIL pressure is next to oil pressure gauge, HOT ENGINE is between water temperature gauges, and LOW AIR is next to air pressure gauge).  Engine gauges are grouped on the right with the fuel gauges (level & pressure) and 12 volt voltmeter.  Air pressure gauges (system and brake application) are on the left with 24 volt voltmeter. Leveling system gauges are in a separate panel below the switch panel on the left of the driver's seat. "Immediate stop" warning lights LOW AIR, LOW OIL, & HOT ENGINE also have separate audible alarms as well. Other warning lights such as NO CHARGE and LOW FUEL do not have an audible alarm because, although I need to be aware of the problem, I do not have to stop immediately.
   We also have indicator lights for toad brakes, bus brake lights, turn signals, starter, and Jake Brake.





We installed our rear/side view monitor above the windshield in an overhead cabinet.  This keeps it our the direct sunlight recing glare on the scrren. Our Fire Detection & suppression monitor, and generator control panel are also installed in this cabinet.

[Gary '79 5C]

Jack,

Wonderful craftmanship, but got to ask, Does your tach Zero out at 500 rpm?

Also how do you pick up the brake lite indicator signal Is it voltage present? or thru the resistance of brake lamps?
Also signal for the Hot Engine ? Alarmstat ?

I have just rearranged my guages to allow the eng. temp closer to center for easier scan. Volt Meter went to the side.
I also use the gen set for roof air operations, and have all gen set guages and controls up front in plain view. Controls for gen set are within drivers reach.

FWIW, I prefer the white or orange needle on a black background. VDO supposed to have tested (yrs ago) that this was the best combination for recognition. That carried thru many of the earlier mercedes.

Take care,

Gary

[JackConrad]

Jack,
Wonderful craftmanship, but got to ask, Does your tach Zero out at 500 rpm?
Also how do you pick up the brake lite indicator signal Is it voltage present? or thru the resistance of brake lamps?
Also signal for the Hot Engine ? Alarmstat ?
Gary

The tach zeros when the master switch is turned on.  The brake light indicator is triggered by voltage at the LED brake light. Yes, the HOT EGNINE signal comes from the alarmstats. The old engine had 220 alramstats, the new engine has 210 alarmstats.  Here is a photo od the dash in "night mode"  Jack

[Cary and Don]

After doing our dash, there are a couple things we would have done different.  The really important gauges, temp, oil pressure, and air pressure would be white face.  The others would be black face.  It's a pain to try and pick the right gauge out among all the others going down the road in the dark, even if they are back-lit.

Our back-up camera is where the rear view mirror would be.  It seems to get used more as a rear view mirror than a back up camera anyway.  We are planning on adding a curb side camera to it so cars lurking along side will be easier to see.

Don and CAry
GMC 4107
Neoplan AN340

[RJ]

We are planning on adding a curb side camera to it so cars lurking along side will be easier to see.

Don -

Thousands of buses in revenue service daily get by with a simple supplemental convex mirror in addition to the big flat one.  Only time they don't work is when they're covered with snow/ice.  Nothing to go wrong, unless you try to take out a sign or tree limb with it and break one, in which case a trip to the truck stop and ten bucks will fix you up like new.

Do it your way, of course, but it's hard to beat something as simple as a KISS!   

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Gary '79 5C]

RJ,

I like to keep things simple, as I am just a simple guy.

But my PO installed an Eaton "Proximity" sensor out front and on right side of the bus. There are three small lights on the frt post ahead of entry door. These light green for all clear, amber for something in the area, and red for something in close proxmity. A close guard rail will indicate red.

I thought this big time over kill, but even with the practice of clearing my turns/ lane changes, I have been saved with the lights, as I missed small cars in the double mirrors I have. I like the indicators located in the line of sight when I am looking at the right side mirror.

I would have never spent the money to install this, but am glad it is there. I see from Eaton that they install on new coaches and tie in to the cruise control so as to disengage if the coach is nearing a vehicle in front, and engages the Jakes if the vehicle in frt is closer. I think the driver would nearly be asleep if this would be happening. They may sight a good thing in fog, but if visibility is down that badly, I would be off the road.

Take care,

Gary