Drive Tires

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Guy's,

I have been shopping for drive tires for a while but, I have put it off too many times now.

I'm watching the American LaMans race on ABC from Tampa/St Pete and one of the pit commutators did a skit

on transporter tires fron michelin and they were boasting the XONE singel replacement tire for duels. They claim they

handle more weight, and are lighter, and will save 10% on fuel costs. Of course, I would have to change the wheels too...

What do you guy's think?

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/xone/xOne.jsp

It Seems this tire is one that they recommend for bus fleets
http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tireSelector.do?veh_type=2&position=Z&size=455%2F55R22.5

Thanks
Nick-

[Sean]

Nick,

Lots of choices for super-singles -- you don't need to buy the high-zoot Michelins.

I do not believe the 10% mileage improvement figure.  If you really want to improve mileage, increase your air pressure and let your current tires wear further.  And the extra weight capacity (over what? not a pair of 315's, I'd guess) is meaningless unless you are already close to the limits on your current setup.

Here's my main concern with super-singles on a bus:  If you get a puncture, or, for that matter, any other failure, you will be on the rim on that side in short order, with possible loss of control.  Assuming you wrestle her over to the shoulder without drama, you'll likely be sidelined for quite a bit longer, and out quite a bit more money, trying to find a tire service with one in stock.  Unlike with duals, you will likely not be able to "limp" to a safer place or even to a shop, nor can you retract the tag (if equipped with that feature) and just throw a tag onto the drive axle.

The control problem is much less severe on a tandem truck, because there's still another tire on that side to shoulder some of the load, provide braking traction, and help maintain control.

If you are in the habit of rotating your steers/tags to the drivers and vice versa, you'll no longer be able to do that, of course.

Lastly, I don't think any savings the super-singles can give you in fuel mileage or lower replacement costs (over replacing two standard dual tires) will ever pay back what the wheels will cost you over the number of miles or years you will own the coach.

JMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Sean,

Again, you point out very viable points. Thanks!

I think I will be staying with standard duels for now..

Nick-

[Lonnie time to go]

what kind of cost is there.
Will they fit on the same rims.

[luvrbus]

Nick, one thing to keep in mind most if not all of the super singles are 65mph tires.Rusty on this board is going to use them on his Eagle with the wide on the front and tag, don't what price you were quoted  for the rims but I bought 1 last year and it was over 600 bucks I am not for sure but all I have seen use hub mount bolt patterns.    good luck

[NEO/Russ]

FYI, there is a new Michelin super single with an on/off road claim.  It takes a 14" wide rim - whew.  It has a 75 mph rating, like most of the Michelin super singles.  I'm considering them on my Kenworth, but will carry a 2.75/80 - 22.5 for a spare - just in case so I can limp at a slow speed home.  However the drive axle (I have singled my Kenworth) with my Teton fiver will be loaded about 20k and this tire has an 11,600# rating.  I found I can sell my used Alcoa's for a pretty fair amount and actually buying two 14" wide rims and two 8.75" fronts (all four rims polished just one side) is cheaper than buying six narrow rims polished both sides for use as drives or steers.  I want the ride quality, look and if I get better mpg, so be it.

[luvrbus]

The part I never could quite understand about the tire is how the fuel mileage would increase the saleman told me they where a 524rpm tire. The Michelin I bought last year was a 65 mph tire made in Italy  good luck

[rusty]

Nick, I am going to use them on my tag and drive axle on my 15. I paided 500 a piece for the rims. They where anodized and looked a little dull, I had them polished for 65 a rim so I can keep them bright. Sean is correct about losing a tire, but I have been driving my 05 for 6 years and never had a problem. If something happens every 6 years I will have to wait a little while to get a replacement that is OK with me. If you look at the trucks on the road about 10 or 15 percent of the trucks are using them. That makes them easrier to find the more trucks that use them. The ride is much better with the super singles. I have not bought any tires yet I am using some old rags untill i get closer to using it. The price was a little cheaper for one sigle than two tires for the duals.

Good Luck wayne

[jackhartjr]

I worked for a company in the early 80's that was part of a test program for the Super Singles.  At that time if one blew on the drive axle the truck was uncontrolable. (After the third or forth driver told us of that we ended the test program.) I understand that that problem has been taken care of now...however I do not know how they did it.
I too wonder how they would get 10% better fuel mileage.  Anyone want to chime in on that?
I do see more and more fleets using them.
Jack

[belfert]

I thought Super Singles are only recommended with tandem drive axles, or has that changed?

Rolling resistance of tires is a good sized part of fuel use on large vehicles.  The Super Single presumably has less rolling resistance due to being smaller than two seperate tires.

[luvrbus]

I bought a Prevost H41 that had super singles on the drive and wide on the tag and steer.The 6 tires with 1- 14 inch wide wheel cost me over 6 grand and I thought the bus drove and rode like a piece of garbage but the new owners like the setup.FWIW in my travels I have never saw a truck with super singles with a blown tire setting on the side of the road.Wayne I really think they were design for a tandem setup not a single axle and with the weight you are going to have on your drive axle you may be close to the limit on the tires and over when the tag is lifted I know it was on the Prevost I was afraid to lift the tag and it was a 41 ft bus and yours is a 45 footer   good luck

[rusty]

Clifford, If you are saying that both front and rear tires need to have the same wieght on them, then I will not have that. The only time I will raise the tag is when I am in a tight spot and don't want to drag the tag. I will try to follow the logic of having the same wieght on the front and rear tire. If I but more weight on the tag it will transfer to much wieght on the steer axle.

Wayne

[lostagain]

We were in France for March break. The semis are typically cab-over, single drive axle with duallies. The trailers are triple axle with super-singles. GVW around 36000 kilos, (80000 lbs). The trailer axles are positioned farther forward than in N. America, taking up more weight, with less of it on the fifth wheel hitch. So loosing a drive tire, (dual), would not be a big problem. And loosing a trailer super single wouldn't be either, because of there being 3 axles. All trucks are limited to 90 kms/hr, (55mph). Buses 100 kms/hr. Trucks are not allowed in the left, fast lane. I believe all this applies all over Europe.

JC

[Ed Hackenbruch]

JC i was just thinking about you today, wondering how your project was coming along.

[lostagain]

I'll keep this brief, not wanting to hijack this thread too much.

Well it is coming, slowly. I try to spend a couple of hours each day so it moves along. My engine is just about buttoned up. Meanwhile, I am doing things in the engine  compartment: today I removed the oil reservoir to make room for a Raccor fuel filter I am hoping to have in place tomorrow. I have an intercooler I have to install, along with fabricating the plumbing for it. I am still looking for a dry air filter housing to replace the oil bath. Then I'll have to figure out the piping for it. There is still a lot to do and it takes time. Hope to see you at Busn'USA in Rickreal in June, as I will try to make that rally again.

Take care,

JC