4104 or 4106

HB of CJ · March 30, 2009, 09:36:32 PM

Would you be happy going up that grade at 35 mph.....or 55 mph? Also, for whatever it may be worth, I think that the Detroit 671N sounds very cool...but the 8V71N sounds absolutely bitchin'!!! Your decision in the end. Enjoy the pleasant process! HB of CJ

4101 vs 4106 Post

johns4104s · March 31, 2009, 06:15:39 AM

Gus,

I know 4104 owners that have replaced the rear glass with plexi, looks great cost $150.00

John

JohnEd · March 31, 2009, 11:04:49 AM

My glass guy said he could cut laminated glass sheet stock to any window shape I wanted. I saw them run a cutter down both sides and then tap it to spread the "crack" then just bend it off without a hitch. They cut of corners and then grind it down to precise dimension.

Plexiglas you can do yourself with a jig saw. Just tape off the surfaces where the jig saw will contact. I think you would rather go with "poly carbonate" from my scant experience. Maybe there is a superior material to that that is now available even.

johns4104s · March 31, 2009, 12:14:35 PM

Johned,

You are probable right with material.

John

Len Silva · March 31, 2009, 12:29:35 PM

The glass guy can cut any of the flat glass in the side windows, but the back glass is curved.

If you have the back glass, in any condition, then you can use plexi (actually Lexan I think) by placing a piece on top of the back glass and heating it very carefully with a heat gun to curve it to the same shape. Then cut it out and install.

The 4104 is three pieces but I think you might be able to do it with one piece but getting the shape right would be tricky.

You could also fabricate a frame for the opening and use flat glass or plastic.

None are simple answers.

Utahclaimjumper · March 31, 2009, 12:38:55 PM

I believe the 04 has a three piece for a reason, the "straps" between the windows hold up the engine, so I dont think a one piece rear glass is do- able.>>>Dan

gus · March 31, 2009, 07:19:47 PM

I've given serious thought to plexiglass but this stuff moves so much when heated and cooled that it can't be tightly sealed. You have to give it plenty of space to move around in the gasket.

I've had quite a bit of experience with it on aircraft. It is easy to work with and bends easily with heat.

Lexan is "poly carbonate" but needs special treatment for UV and weather resistance. I've never used it but do know it is tough stuff. It is also not very scratch resistant.

I suppose that once I run out of glass I have no choice but to try something else.

There is no reason not to install a one piece rear window in a 4104. Those braces ("straps) dividing the two smaller end windows are behind the window and have no effect on mounting. I've become an "expert" on this installation after doing it two times in one year!!

I have no problem with topping grades at 35mph, I've done it in second gear much slower a few times. I'm in no hurry, the scenery is half the trip. Anyway, what you lose going up you regain going down!!

Flyboy · April 01, 2009, 04:11:37 PM

Gus,

How do you access the mufflers on the '04 to replace them? I have to do mine in a couple of weeks and am thinking of cutting an access through the rear of my bus. I got replacements through Luke at US Coach but remember someone mentioning a while back that you can get smaller ones than the old standard.

ZubZub,

Great lines on your '04, wish mine still had 'em. The guy I bought the old girl from wanted to fit in better at the high end parks so put caps on front and rear. Too bad.

Cheers.

Aron.

Flyboy · April 01, 2009, 04:27:18 PM

P.S. has the standard 6N71/Spicer combo for power.

johns4104s · April 01, 2009, 05:06:15 PM

Aron,

If I remember you use the access door inside over the back of the engine. If I remember they will pull up and out. I had a blown head gasket 2000 miles from home at a rally in Costa Mesa CA. I didn't see any of The rally, but with the help of a bus nut I found what I needed Had a guy run the rack and came home. The only mistake I made was I did not do as DDA re comends changing out all the fuel cross overs. They never seat right the second time and I had a little diesel leaking into the oil pan on the way home.

John

johns4104s · April 01, 2009, 05:15:23 PM

Aron,

Maybe you have to pull the radiator( not bad Tami and I chaged a radiator out in 4 hours, the hub holding the fan let loose and the fan went though the radiator) ( it is advised to check the fan to hubevery few weeks), disconnect them from inside and slide them out the radiator side.

John

gus · April 01, 2009, 07:03:13 PM

Aaron,

The mufflers have to come out the top of the engine compartment. There is a bolted down lid there that was probably behind the rear seat when it was a passenger bus.

There is also a heat shield between the mufflers and firewall that needs to come out. It may be possible to remove the mufflers with it in place but I finally gave up and removed it.

Some of the clamps and manifold bolts/nuts can be loosened from the transmission side if you no longer have the manual parking brake and original monster generator. If those are still in place I don't know if you can reach anything from there.

The removable lid over the engine is just barely big enough to wrestle those monster mufflers out. You need to be strong or have help. This is a real pain and made me so mad I made my own smaller mufflers. It is still a pain even then but a much smaller pain.

Since you've already gotten those expensive, huge original mufflers you can look forward to all that fun!

If you can get help you will be way ahead but I had to do mine alone and I'm an old wimpy guy.

You may be able to get to the mufflers with the radiator removed but I doubt it. Anyway, I think it is easier to go through the inside lid than remove all that radiator stuff and drain the engine.

If you have any other questions let me know. I have photos I made during the process which show both the old and new mufflers which I can send you by email.

PS,

My son works at Boeing Everett.

Len Silva · April 01, 2009, 07:35:59 PM

I never did the muffler on mine but I'm sure that when Greyhound was doing it, they just rolled out the whole engine. Probably took 30 minutes with the proper equipment.

RJ · April 01, 2009, 11:25:23 PM

Quote from: Len Silva on April 01, 2009, 07:35:59 PM

I never did the muffler on mine but I'm sure that when Greyhound was doing it, they just rolled out the whole engine. Probably took 30 minutes with the proper equipment.

Len's right. With a cradle dolly or a forklift, you can pull the entire powertrain in about an hour and a half. Then you can work on pulling the mufflers standing up, w/o having to tear apart the interior to get to them.

Greyhound used to actually have complete powertrains sitting on cradles, ready to go, in their main shops. Assigning two technicians to a coach, they'd do TWO complete powertrain swaps in an eight hour shift on the V-Drive GMCs. T-drive models, be it the old Senicruiser or MCIs, would take two guys one day to do - half as productive, so to speak. Of course, this was back in the days before the Hot Dog Salesman took over the company and dialed in disaster. . .

FWIW & HTH. . .

gus · April 02, 2009, 07:52:43 PM

That would be nice but I don't have a forklift, a pit or dolly wheels.

My guess is that the bus companies changed the mufflers when they had the engines out for other jobs.

It wasn't too bad getting to the lid but it was hell getting the mufflers through the hole! My lid was behind the bed so all I had to do was peel back the carpeting, remove some insulation and there it was.

Anyway I solved all those problems by using smaller, cheaper and better designed mufflers.