Battery source?

[PP]

It's been a little more than a year since I bought batteries and I swore I paid around $80. each for 6V 220AH. I called around to the local sources today and was quoted $139. each. Have they gone up that much or do I need to find another source. I'm thinking I might just switch to 8D's for the house bats and replace them each year. ($169 ea) It would be less expensive than what I'm currently doing. I've given up on letting electronics monitor themselves. From now on, I'm planning on monitoring the battery bank via gauges in the coach and just switch on the charger when they need it. Any thoughts on this or a source for less spendy bats would be appreciated.
  Thanks, Will

[luvrbus]

Will,I checked the prices Mon at Sam's the house brand 220ah 6v were $68.00 and the Interstate were $73.00 for the 220ah 6v batteries     good luck

[buswarrior]

Hey, hold on!

Tell us what bits and pieces you have, we might be able to help!

With a little attention, you should over 5 years out of a set of batteries.

Are taking out too much on each discharge or....?

Let us help, and learn!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[PP]

Hey, hold on!

Tell us what bits and pieces you have, we might be able to help!

With a little attention, you should over 5 years out of a set of batteries.

Are taking out too much on each discharge or....?

Let us help, and learn!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

BW, since you offered, 
I have a Heart 2000 Inverter/75Amp 12V Charger and a Lester 60Amp Charger converter. I have tried using the Lester alone without the charge unit on the Heart, and I have tried using the Heart alone. When the first bat lost a cell, the Lester cooked the dickens out of the other five bats trying to charge the slacker. I took two out of line to keep them balanced and switched over to nothing but the Heart, thinking the old Lester was going bad. Shortly after that, another bat failed (4.02V) and a repeat of the first experience. Swapped the bad out with the spare good. Then two failed at the same time and the Heart cooked the remainders. Now I have 5 funky 6V and 1 good (for nothing). My 2 4D's are the same age and they're still like new. I have two 12V 1Amp trickles that I put on the day before I plan on starting her and never a problem. I've studied all the threads on batteries here and there have been quite a few and everything indicates that the Heart should be monitoring and charging the bank as needed. When the last battery failed it also took out my backup camera which is very picky about its voltage and doesn't like running off the converter without batteries to stabilize the voltage. I'm at my wits end with batteries and just looking to cut my losses. I can live with replacing an 8D each year if that is what it takes. Any help will be greatly appreciated. OH, in case I forgot to mention, the PO and only other owner was an electrical engineer. He was very creative when it comes to wiring. Fortunately, he liked making diagrams and leaving notes taped to the wires. I'm still finding them each time I have to go hunting through the internal workings of this old girl  God rest his soul.
Any help will be greatly appreciated, Will

I forgot to add that I really do appreciate all the help you guys give. Us less-knowledgeable Busnuts would be lost without all of your generous contributions. Sometimes it's hard to ask because we feel like we're taking advantage of your good natures. BW, Dallas, Luvrbus, Gumpy, Cody, Ace, BK, the list goes on forever. I hope someday to be able to buy you all a nice cold one, Will

[Don4107]

If I understand your post, it sounds like the converter may have been the problem.  They will cook batteries. BTDT Once it damaged the batteries they were toast and headed for the the battery grave yard. 

I would start with a new set of batteries, not 8Ds, and only use the inverter.  I would very closely monitor the charging to be sure the inverter is working properly.  Voltage, amperage, and battery temperature. 

Did you have the converter and inverter trying to charge at the same time?

Good luck with the new batteries,
Don 4107

[NJT 5573]

Will ,

If you do the 8Ds just get the deep cycle battery, its guaranteed for 3 years for the same price at my dealer and is dual purpose. Try to use a full service battery shop. I just drive in get my stuff checked and cleaned or replaced and drive out. They handle all the merchandise so I don't care if they are heavy, or dirty. I just tell them when the hot side seems wimpy and they keep me rolling. I'm using 3 8Ds only. I use my bus when I'm on the move so I just have the one large bank. The bus alternator keeps them up if I drive some at least every other day and I normally do.

[PP]

Did you have the converter and inverter trying to charge at the same time?
Good question, Don.
When I purchased the bus that's how it was connected, which didn't make any sense to me. So I disconnected the charging side of the Heart and only used it for an inverter, keeping the Lester in line for charging and converting use. That worked for about 6 months with the new batteries before the problems started. At first I thought the Lester was acting up. But during testing it does exactly what it says it's supposed to do. Because I have several items that need 12V even when I'm on shore power (fridge, lights, Cat heaters, etc.) I have to have the batteries inline at all times. Right now I'm using an old 12V deep that works as a heat sink for the electronics. It won't hold a charge anymore but it stabilizes the Heart output.
FWIW-I replaced the backup camera that fried with a $30. special from Radio Shack that has infrared leds,color, sound and came with 59' of cable. Hooked it up to my existing monitor and I have to admit it works better than the $600. camera that was so picky about current. There is even a motion detector in it. The camera comes with a 120V/12V adapter, but I just wired it into my 12V system. I'm thinking about getting more of these and adding them to the front and sides and wiring them into my TV system so if I hear a noise at night I can check it out without getting out of bed LOL
BTW NJT 5573- Who is your battery source? I'm looking at $300+ for an 8D deepcycle on the Oregon Coast while a reg cycle is avging around 170. Napa so far is the best pricing I can come up with, unless I go with Wallyworld grp 29 12V deeps at $80. each

[NJT 5573]

Will,

I use Budget Battery in Fife. The 1 year warranty 8D second is only $100 when they are in stock. My friend Chris bought 2 last month for the 05 I sold him after I bought the Model 20. I like the deep cycle and start combination battery that was $159 a month ago if I remember right, with a 3 year warranty.

Kerry usually helps me and his phone is (253)922-3737. That is the main store, they have some satelite stores too, but Kerry will know who has what. I like the full service part where they are the ones that get dirty and do the lifting. I have probably used them for more than 20 years for my trucking business and they have always treated me fair. The prices I mentioned are the same price they charge everyone as far as I know.

[PP]

Thanks NJT 5573,
I will give Kerry a call and see where his nearest outlet to me is. I think I'd like the 8D deep cycle also and at that price it would be worth traveling a little distance to get them.
Again, thank you,
Will

[Sean]

Based on your further detailed description of the problem, here is the next question that comes to mind:

How often did you check the water level in these batteries?  Did you notice any drop in water level before the one cell went bad?

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[PP]

Hi Sean,
I check my batteries weekly, and prior to the one dropping a cell, the water usage was maybe a pint each per month. I was also running a 12V freezer in the basement which used a lot of juice. Rated at 9AH when running. I don't what it took to start the compressor. I took it out and sold it when my battery bank started shrinking. With all the new tools I've been adding to my collection since owning this bus I needed the room for a larger tool box which fits great on the joey bed  My batteries are working all the time, if you know what I mean. Even the fridge needs 12V when it's connected to 120V shore. Also, the Cat heaters use more amperage than I originally realized, and there were many days when they ran nonstop. They are easy on propane though  .
Hope this info helps. Thanks for any suggestions or ideas, Will

[Old4103]

Will,

Forgive me for asking, but what is the model number of your Lester Charger/converter? I been to the Lester Electrical Products website and can't seem to find anything that remotely resembles a converter charger.

If You supply the model number, maybe I can find the proper operating and troubleshooting procedures for it.

Thanks,

Dallas

[Sean]

OK.  A picture is coming together.  More questions:

1.  Please confirm that the house system we are talking about here is strictly 12 volts.

2.  Since this is a 24-volt bus, what, if any, arrangement to you have to keep the house side up while driving?  Or are all the house loads then running strictly on battery?  Or do you run the genny while driving?

3.  I found it hard to follow the total arrangement:  How many amp-hours at 12-volts did you have total?  (If you are using 6-volt batteries, multiply number of batteries by the amp-hour rating of a single battery, then divide by 2.)

4.  Have you actually measured the total draw of your house system under "normal" conditions (whatever that means)?

5.  Does the Heart have a charger setting for either total amp-hours, or maximum charge amps, and, if so, what is it set at?

Where I am heading here is that it is starting to look to me like you don't have enough battery capacity to cover the expected demand.  Thus batteries are being discharged to below 50%, which is a sure way to kill a battery quickly.  And/or possibly too high a charge setting for flooded batteries of the given capacity.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[busnut104]

I thought my house battery's where bad so I took them out, they where ten years old, I got careless and let them get low on water, the plates where not covered. I add distilled water and put them on slow charge one at a time and guess what, they all 4 are around 7 volts and I put a load on then and they held. They are now back in the bus doing fine, but I do know I'm running on borrowed time. Yes you did read this right and it is not a miss print. I bought and installed the battery's in 99.   

[PP]

Dallas, it's a Lester-Power model 9065 type 12RV60 rated at 60 amp charge rate and says in the small print on the front that it will maintain batteries not in use also. Lester, Nebraska. It's original to the conversion (1983) the Heart was added in the last 10 years. It actually explains on a tag on the front how to trouble shoot it and check for correct operation, which checks out exactly like it's supposed to. When the battery problems started, I kept a close eye on it and it always seemed to be doing what it said it should be doing, except my batteries couldn't appreciate it.

I like that, "a picture is coming together" Yes Sean, the house is all 12V excluding a few 120V items. I have 2 alternators, 1 puts out 24V for the coach and 1 puts out 12V for the house bank while under power. I had 6-220AH 6V bats originally (660AH total). I have drastically reduced the amount of total draw on the house system recently by removing the basement freezer. I'm thinking that might have been my problem. But that's only a guess at this point. I don't know what my actual draw per day is though. The Heart doesn't have a manually adjustable charger. It has a dial and lights to show the amperage it's putting out, but other than shutting off the charger side altogether, I can't manually control it. I do know that everytime the freezer kicked on it pegged the needle on the charge side. The float charge voltage is adjustable and set at 13.2V.
You stated that I might not have enough AH for the demand. With the freezer in the mix, that might have been my problem. I figured 660AH was enough to run a city LOL. But now I'm thinking differently. Also, my batteries originally started acting up when the weather turned cold and the Cat heaters were running almost 24/7. Yes, Sean, you might have hit the nail on the head. I hate to invest in another bank of batteries and have a repeat performance, but I am feeling more confident now. Thank you immensely and let me know if I'm getting the picture now  
Sorry for getting longwinded, Will

Busnut104, some people have all the luck!!!