Crown Supercoach II

[Iceni John]

Good afternoon everyone,

This is my first posting on this forum, and I am the proud owner of a 1990 Crown Supercoach II that I purchased last month from Patrick Young in Fresno.   This is one of the rear-engined heavy-duty school buses that were made in the last few years before GE closed down Crown in 1991, and it is one of the very few in Southern California.   It will eventually be set up for full-timing and extended boondocking, but for now it still has all its seats in it.   I don't have any good photos of it yet, so here are some pictures of three others similar to mine:
http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/gallery/updates/may05/cro1_90sup_lit.htm
http://www.interschola.com/displayitem.php?items_id=8167
http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/2007_Summer/crown_supercoach-II.html

I wanted something sturdier and better than a typical school bus, but I cannot afford an MCI or Eagle.   Transit buses do not have sufficient underfloor storage, and ordinary S&S RVs hold no attraction to me whatsoever.   Last year I looked at a Thomas WestCoast-ER being sold at Ramona, but I was outbid by a church that ended up paying almost what I spent on my Crown.   For little more money than God's Thomas I now have a far better bus overall.   My Crown, even with its 6V92TA set to only 277HP, romped up the Grapevine's 6% grade at 45 to 40MPH in 4th gear, and its Jake held it to 35MPH down the 5% without touching the brakes.   No Thomas or Blue Bird would do that.   I have 14,000 lbs payload rating, probably more after I take out the seats, so I will have plenty of reserve capacity even after it's completed.   My plan is to have a 45 gallon pooh tank where the tool locker now is next to the two 8Ds, a 100 gallon grey tank under the frame rails next to the pooh tank, and two 75 gallon fresh tanks either side of the fuel tank.   There will still be plenty of room for three or four pairs of golfcart batteries, three propane tanks, another air tank for airing tires and running my air tools, my 3500W Champion generator ($199 from Kragens!) next to the front door, a cradle for the spare tire/wheel under the front, and that's without using any of the bellybin's 120 cu.ft. of storage.   I like the essential simplicity and ruggedness of school buses, but at the same time I appreciate the thoughtful quality of Crown's design.   Everything is easily accessible in and around the engine room and underneath the frame, and the aluminum body panels eliminate rusting issues.   There is absolutely no corrosion anywhere from it having spent all its life in the Sacramento Valley, and its most recent CHP certification was last year shortly before it was taken out of service.

I hope to soon find a home for all the seats, and when they are out I will get a better idea of how the interior will be.   This is something I have wanted to do for many years, so finally I am realizing my dream.   When I was working for British Rail, my first job after school, I had this crazy-ish idea of converting a surplus railway passenger car which then were available for their scrap value, but needing to be coupled to a freight train each time I wanted to move would have been less than ideal.   So, my next idea was to buy a double-decker bus and convert it with kitchen/shower/loo/etc downstairs and livingroom/bedroom upstairs  -  I was all set to buy a Bristol Lodekka with the legendary Gardner diesel, tough and simple, but that plan never materialized, not least because a bus that size is difficult to park inconspicuously, and there is no tradition of fulltiming in England except for folk on the fringes of society.   Some years later I seriously considered buying a traditional canal narrowboat (60ft long, 6'10" wide, 35 tons, all steel, 5MPH flat out), but I could not get financing for it, so that idea was scuppered.

I'll let everyone here know how I progress with this project.   My girlfriend thinks I will be dividing my attentions between her and Corona, but I hope there will always be room for both in my life!
John

[fraser8]

Welcome, the fun is only beginning. You should get all your questions answered here but take some with a grain of salt. My first bus was a schooley and our family has fond memories of the adventures we took. All the best and keep the updates coming

[Chopper Scott]

I'm almost embarassed to admit that I bought my bus already converted. But for the asking price I couldn't even come close even buying a portion of the items that came with the bus. I'm a hands on type and truly enjoy the journey. But again, converting a bus is not for the feint of heart and requires more than a few weekends and some late nights. Enjoy your journey and keep us up to date. Just about anything you ever will need to know is right here on this forum. Later

[RJ]

John -

Welcome to the madness!

BTW, there's a BUNCH of these running around Fresno/Clovis - both districts bought them, and are still using them.

(Note to self:  Must talk to Joe. . .)

Anyway, these are a terrific coach, and it should serve you well.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[MattC]

Well done John!

Welcome, unfortunately there seems to be no cure for being a Busnut. 

It'll be fun to see how things progress, I'm sure I'll leech some good ideas. =)

[HB of CJ]

Welcome aboard.  We actually got a little $money$ from the local friendly scrap yard when my brother stripped out all the stainless steel seat frames from my '74 Crown 10-wheeler.  The actual cushions went to the landfill.  A junk dealer took them on site.

Don't feel the least bit sheepish winding out your Detroit.  As you know, they climb best right at 2000-2200 rpm with your foot lifted slightly.  California school bus inspections are probably the nations hardest.  Your Crown is certainly in excellent shape.

About your new disease.  Sorry, but there is NO KNOWN CURE for this Bus Conversion madness.  I had it, thought I was over it, then found I still have it...BAD!  I want another Crown.  Enjoy figuring out the floor plan.  Now you can do it your way. HB of CJ

[boogiethecat]

Oh boy, another guy who is gonna want a set o' Gulmite drivers!!
Well maybe not if you're lucky and they quit using the stupid things~
Enjoy

[TomC]

HB of CJ was giving his advice if you had a lay down 6-71N-and what he said is true for that engine.  But you have the 6V-92TA which likes to pull hills around 1800rpm.  The 92 series do NOT like to be over revved.  2300rpm max, and only for a short time.  2100 should always be the max.  You can easily let them come down to 1400 and not hurt them (I know, I used to drive a 8V-92TA and upshift at 1800 and down shift at 1400 for max fuel mileage).  With the truck chassis it is built on, it would be a natural for adding slide outs-especially since it is a 96" wide.  Good Luck, TomC

[usbusin]

Oh boy, another guy who is gonna want a set o' Gulmite drivers!!
Well maybe not if you're lucky and they quit using the stupid things~

What does this mean?  Never heard the terminology.

Thanks,

Gary D

[Iceni John]

No Gulmites for me.   A big selling point of the later Crown was its complete lack of funky fasteners that need funky tools (assuming you can even get the paint off the fine serrations around their heads).   My bus is all rivets and what appear to be button-head hex-key bolts.

Yup, when I climbed the Grapevine that night the engine was at about 1450RPM in top gear, and I think that is near the fattest part of the torque curve.   The turbo was working hard (music to my ears), but the coolant temp was steady at about 180 degrees.   Had I instead been climbing during the heat of the day I would have put it into third gear and kept the revs at 2100, and if I had a 71-series I would definitely never slog it.   My old Mercedes, a 1970 280SEL with the M130 engine, needs to be revved hard to keep it happy, just like a 71-series, but my bus's 92-series is like my Audi's engine that develops maximum torque about 3000RPM instead, so there is less reason to rev it high.   I always like to know where the torque is greatest, and use that instead of high revs to get good performance without excessive fuel consumption.

John

[boogiethecat]

Gary D,
Gulmite drivers are the miserable tools that you have to either find or make to remove any screws that were used on the earlier Crowns.  Gawd only knows why Crown used these things, but they are EVERYWHERE on all older Crowns, in 4 different sizes, and damned near impossible to remove unless you have the "drivers".
And if you don't remove them, you don't convert your bus, it's about that simple.

Gulmite screws are also used in gym lockers and pinball machines, mostly because they are so tamper proof.  Lately there have been a few suppliers on the web that carry a few of the necessary ones, but usually you have to remove a few screws, take them to an EDM shop and make your own tool. That's what I had to do.
BIG pain in the ars. 

John is lucky!!!! 

[HB of CJ]

TomC, I believe Iceni already answered my implied concern that he MAY have been in the wrong gear climbing that 6% grade.  Reason I stated why he should rather be at 2000 to 2200 rpm with his foot slightly lifted...

Is because, as you obviously know, it is easier on the 6V92 running in that condition rather than being "lugged" flat wide open at 1400 rpm with the turbo screaming.  The reason I assumed (dangerous word) he was lugging....

Instead of free reving is because the Crown Supercoach 2 has kinda a short driveline being a rear engined Crown and I was wondering if the 5 speed Allison would fit and decided it wouldn't, thus he had a 4 speed instead.

Which would mean that if Iceni was in 4th gear which is also high gear at 40-45 mph, it would also mean that he was in the wrong gear for the situation and may in fact have been lugging his 6V92T Detroit.  Make sense?

Now, after all this clarification, Iceni will probably post back and tell me that his Crown has the 5 speed Allision 650 series and all of this posting stuff will be complete nonsense?  AUUGHHHHHH!, hoist on my own petard...again.

With my old '74 Crown 10-wheeler, the RTO 910 10-speed Roadranger solved all of these silly reving/lugging questions and concerns.  At 55 mph I had a choice of 8th, 9th, or 10th.  Up a steep grade I just keep the Small Cam at 2000 rpm.

Iceni, good to hear you DO NOT have those pesky, crazy world famous 24 point fasteners.  Or was it 25?  Dunno.  They drove me CRAZY.  boogiethecat made me up some #5 size.  Is that right Gary?  Been too long.  Anyway, just ignore me. HB of CJ

[usbusin]

Thanks, boogiethecat for the explanation.  Are these sorta like the ones on bathroom stalls?

Gary D