Live without a generator?

pickpaul · January 05, 2009, 10:29:30 PM

Thanks everyone for all the excellent feedback on other threads which leads me to think I should focus on this bus...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280293661815&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

...because it is in my price range so I could buy it in cash and it is just finished enough to use immediately (has a bedroom and functioning bathroom) and I could complete over time. I agree with others the price is still too high for today's market but if I could get it for around $15k I think it could be a great starting point for me.

It doesn't have a generator but the owner does have a Xantrex SW4024 Inverter w/SWRC that he may include in the deal and the bus has 8 deep cell house batteries.

My question is - can I full time boondock without a generator?

I plan on driving 3-4 days a week and that big 24v alternator should keep the batteries charged when I drive for a while right? Could I expect to get a couple of days out of the batteries on an all electric bus? I plan to make use of mostly LED lighting. I would at some point install a good seer rated mini split heat pump for A/C and heat. The water heater for showers has hydronic heating so showering after a drive would be "free" and adding some solar and some point could help too.

I've read a lot about not idling too much but couldn't I high idle for a while if I needed to to charge the batteries? I plan on running on veggie oil so not having to convert a second engine would be a big help there.

I also own a tiny little 850 Watt gas generator which I guess I could put in a bay for if I'm in a tight spot.

Really just thinking aloud at this point but I'd love your thoughts as always.

Cheers, Paul.

TomC · January 05, 2009, 10:40:29 PM

In my opinion-NO you cannot live without a gen a go boon docking full time. If you had 4-6 solar photo panels to create your charge up during the day, maybe (and at around $1,000 a panel [for the good ones]). I have a 10kw Powertech gen with close to 600 hrs on it that computes to like 24,000 miles-which is curiously the same amount of miles I've put on my bus in the 8 years since it was done. I also have 3 roof airs as my primary A/C system (two work well), with 2.25" of sprayed in insulation. The only alternative is to either run the big engine when the batteries are down or to get about a 3kw portable generator that would tie into the 4000 watt inverter to charge the batteries (Honda makes a great 3kw portable gen that's incredibly quiet). Good Luck, TomC

niles500 · January 06, 2009, 03:06:36 AM

Depends - Are you going PP to PP in highly populated areas with highly efficient appliances (your still going to kill your expensive batts over time) ? Boondocking elicits ideas of carefree travel without being tied to destinations (read: PP) - Tom has the right idea for a cheap alternative solution (2/3kw honda/yamaha genset - cheaper and more efficient than solar at this time) - FWIW

bobofthenorth · January 06, 2009, 04:52:47 AM

Quote from: pickpaul on January 05, 2009, 10:29:30 PM
My question is - can I full time boondock without a generator?
..............
I also own a tiny little 850 Watt gas generator which I guess I could put in a bay for if I'm in a tight spot.

In a word ... NO.

TANFL. Even solar isn't really an option in an all electric coach in my opinion anyway. Unless you are willing to spend heavily on solar panels and to live your life around your batteries then you are going to need a generator no matter what else you do. As usual Tom is right on the money.

John316 · January 06, 2009, 05:18:25 AM

Nope.

For how much a generator is, just get one. They aren't that hard to set up and wire (okay nothing is simple, but compared to some other things...

)

God bless,

John

Hartley · January 06, 2009, 07:15:01 AM

Having a generator also solves or helps when you have one of those days and need air pressure in an emergency. Using a portable air compressor to provide air for airing up the bus, brakes,tires or suspension that is large enough would probably not work well without a generator.

Saved my Butt more than once on the road when I had to use my air operated bottle jack to lift the back of the bus one night.

I carry a dewalt 150 psi 4.3 cu/ft portable air compressor with me. It takes some serious amperage to run so a generator is the best backup system to have.

Also. Even if you did get enough solar to charge batteries then you wouldn't have enough roof space for anything else. Batteries take a lot of current to charge fully and as you know weather conditions may not give you enough sustainable light for a complete charge.

I can run my batteries down to shutoff, start the generator and run it for 3 hours to fully recharge the batteries and keep going. Running a diesel generator on veggie is cheap and useful. I have run my kabota and my onan/kubota for weeks on veggie with few modifications. You could take hot water from the generator to heat you veggie tank also.

Dave...

pickpaul · January 06, 2009, 09:44:31 AM

I was thinking of mostly using the main engine as a charger, either through normal driving or through running it on high idle for an hour when necessary. With basement heat, there would be plenty of space on the roof for solar and I could buy 5 good quality panels for the price of a generator and run the engine if I'm parked up for more than a day or two without driving on my free veggie fuel :-)

Lin · January 06, 2009, 10:15:50 AM

"All electric" sounds like the biggest part of the challenge. I do not believe you will be able to heat or air condition on just batteries and solar. If you could switch the cooking, frig, and heat to propane, you stand a better chance, but forget serious AC. Further, it seems that most recommend not idling your engine so much. You can find generators reasonably priced if you are not committed to having a big diesel. I have even seen people with built in generators using those little Honda types since they are quiet and, for the most part, they do not need the large capacity all the time.

Figure out what you really are going to do with the bus and what it will take to make any bus you look at right for the job. If it won't work, keep looking.

youknowwho · January 06, 2009, 10:25:00 AM

Right now my bus is all electric and my old bus was too. Cliff gave me 6 used batteries about 4 or 5 years ago and I had a 5000 watt inverter both of which almost everybody said was a waste of time and money. The batteries lasted up until last year. I was able to stay off grid 4 1/2 days using whatever lights I needed, fridge running (an unefficient one at that) Use my microwave and some other appliances as needed. So I would think if you hit PP every few days you can. But then that's according to if you use your power wisely.

Lin · January 06, 2009, 10:50:54 AM

Uknow,

That actually sounds pretty impressive. I still would assume you were not using an electric stove, heating and running AC. If you were, I have some serious misconceptions.

Len Silva · January 06, 2009, 11:08:04 AM

The single most important issue here is air conditioning. Everything else has a reasonable work around using propane for cooking, heat and refer.
Solar panels and running the main engine for a while (very inefficient) will get you enough for the refer and entertainment systems. The air conditioning is the killer. All the batteries you could possibly stuff in a bay will not support the AC load for more than a few hours.

pickpaul · January 06, 2009, 11:10:26 AM

Would it be possible to have the trace inverter start up the main engine (set to fast idle) instead of a generator when battery levels fell to a certain point avoiding late night/early morning use?

NewbeeMC9 · January 06, 2009, 11:38:58 AM

Quote from: pickpaul on January 06, 2009, 11:10:26 AM
Would it be possible to have the trace inverter start up the main engine (set to fast idle) instead of a generator when battery levels fell to a certain point avoiding late night/early morning use?

I'm sure with enough time and money that would be possible, but just seems like a bad idea. You may want to keep the bus systems separate from house system except when going down the road and reliable for transportation, One tow bill can buy a lot of generator stuff

If you get the trace, remember to account for the efficiency when it is running, it takes energy while it is working even when there is no load.
It does have a search mode that it only runs when a load comes on, like fridge cycling or water pump, all led & clocks and such must be turned off must

ac question has been answered.

the answer to your original post would depend on you, how much fridge opening that you do, and how much you want ac etc.

there was a thread where people were building a dc generator(AUX power unit, APU) from an alternator and small engine to charge the batteries and someone was talking with trace to get the inverter to start the APU but I'm not sure of how it turned out.

Do it your way!

NJT 5573 · January 06, 2009, 12:41:51 PM

I don't think you should go anywhere without a generator and battery charger. The batterys always find a way to go dead and if you are boondocked without a gen set how are you going to get rolling? I run alot of mountain passes in the winter and would not leave home without a generator. Of course I carry as many tools as most truck shops have around too, but thats why I need a bus!

Charging with a Detroit is going to be very expensive, they don't like that kind of work, even on high idle. Think scored pistons and liners and gunked up blower boxes. As a rule, my 92 does not run unless its on the road and that is a very expensive lesson to learn the hard way.

youknowwho · January 06, 2009, 12:51:05 PM

Quote from: Lin on January 06, 2009, 10:50:54 AM
Uknow,

That actually sounds pretty impressive. I still would assume you were not using an electric stove, heating and running AC. If you were, I have some serious misconceptions.

At one time the heat was from a propane forced air unit and the fans ran off of that but I guess I was a little misleading when I said all electric. I meant no DC stuff. My stove is propane also.