Engine won't start

[Jriddle]

Dennis
I hope you didn't take my last comments wrong! I was hoping to learn from other about the battery draw before starting. I am not that old and have found If you pay attention you will learn something new everyday. I read my last post this morning and hope I didn't leave you with the wrong impression. I was drinking box wine last night and may have not been clear on my intention.
John

[Busted Knuckle]

Back in the late 90's or early 00's WD-40 made a change in the make up to make it "less flamable" and since then I haven't seen it work worth a darn for anyone I personally know of. But prior to that I used to use it quite regularly on my stubborn refer units! (But as Cole said ya gotta disconnect those glow plugs first!) FWIW   BK 

[Eagle]

Someone can jump in here and give the right info. I had the shut down valve stick on my 6V92 and I had to manually take a boxed end wrench and pull the cylinder back.  There are two of these air operated cylinders on top of the engine one is the shut down.  You can turn the ignition switch on at the front of coach and then go the engine compartment and turn the main electrical switch on and off and you can hear the air operated switch work.  I can not remember the name of the air operated switch.

[Busted Knuckle]

Skinner valve

[Eagle]

Thanks BK.  Us Kentuckians has to help each other out sometimes.

Merry Christmas to all.

[CAROLINABOY]

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all and a happy and safe newyear

[GM0406]

Well I see that all here paid no attention to the idle shim.  My coach will smoke white smoke period, unless I crack the throttle with a shim.  No ifs ands or buts!  Repeatable every time without fail.  Others here may be telling you to check to see if you have any fuel pressure and check fuel this and that.  If you are seeing white smoke, you are in luck and not lacking fuel.  So either you lack air or rpm.  And of course this problem will be worse if the ambient temperature is down.  My engine is not in need of any rings and does not smoke after starting.  Even when the throttle is pushed.  But it will smoke white smoke and actually some smoke rings if I fail to use the shim. 

Maybe it is just as well to not start your unit until diesel comes down in price.  By the time we get a little further into this recession going on to depression, environmentalists could be forced to back down and stop the nonsense on diesel restrictions.  Paying $1 more per gallon for diesel is preposterous!  This is the best evidence that this screwed up economy is no where near being back down to a reasonable level of recovery!  There is no sane reason why diesel should be higher than gasoline other than government monkey shines!   Bill T.

[CAROLINABOY]

thanks for the note on the shim I will try charging first to see if that is all it is it has cranked fine until now

[Hi yo silver]

John,
No offense taken; maybe that's because I had a glass of vino sitting next to me when I read it.   The only white smoke I've seen lately is coming from my ears when I fill this thing up at the diesel pump!
Dennis

[Don4107]

GMO406 

Blocking the linkage with a shim does nothing related to the amount of air the engine is getting.  Our DDs run with wide open air intake all the time.  Throttle adjusts how much diesel is injected to control speed/power output. You might need to have the idle speed and governor set. 

I know I am looking forward to having the DD tuned up by someone who really knows them if I ever get the new bus on the road.    My other requirement is someone that will let a busnut fool look over his shoulder.   I know, good luck.

Don 4107

[Hartley]

Leaky Injector or the rack is out of adjustment. explains the white smoke.
maybe a couple are sticking slightly.

[GM0406]

If shimming the throttle does not introduce more air, then by whatever action is happening, my 871 TA will start with the shim and absolutely will not start without it unless it is 70 degrees or warmer outside.  If it is adjusted so that it starts, then the idle is too high to prevent clunking in and out of gear with the V-730.  Others here may be more up on what is actually going on when the throttle is shimmed, but I can do white smoke quite well if I do not use the shim.  She starts so fast with the shim, it is like she explodes on the first move of the crank!  The shim also gives a nice high idle for warm up keeping oil pressure up.  Bill T.

[Len Silva]

If shimming the throttle does not introduce more air, then by whatever action is happening, my 871 TA will start with the shim and absolutely will not start without it unless it is 70 degrees or warmer outside.  If it is adjusted so that it starts, then the idle is too high to prevent clunking in and out of gear with the V-730.  Others here may be more up on what is actually going on when the throttle is shimmed, but I can do white smoke quite well if I do not use the shim.  She starts so fast with the shim, it is like she explodes on the first move of the crank!  The shim also gives a nice high idle for warm up keeping oil pressure up.  Bill T.

Bill, 

I think the governor is not adjusted properly and/or the rack needs adjusting.  While your trick with the shim works for you, it is not the normal condition.

My (limited) experience with Detroits is that if it doesn't start on the second turn, something is wrong.

[makemineatwostroke]

BIll T: you are in great need of a tune up rack, injector timing and governor adjustments the shim has nothing to do with air only fuel. the shim is opening all the injectors instead of a couple definitely a problem somewhere.  If you believe it runs good now wait till after a tune up.

have a great day

[GM0406]

Ok, Perhaps the rack needs to be run.  However, I think at some point we purposefully reduced idle speed to avoid rough shifts.  Since this essentially closes the rack, are we suggesting here that the white smoke is due to not all injectors cutting back equally?  Which would mean that when I am trying to start in this low rack position that one or more injectors are injecting while the majority are not, thus preventing full start and just putting out white smoke?  The reasoning here would be that there should be no white smoke if all injectors are closing with a closed rack.  A correct rack adjustment would then include making sure all injectors shut at the same time, open at the same time and move equally throughout the throttle stroke.  I wonder if there are compromises on these rack adjustments where you adjust for the best even performance above shut-off, even if it means slight injection of a couple of them below a few hundred rpm? 

FWIW I have no problem at all with this engine as long as the shim is used.  It runs smoothly, has adequate power and does not smoke.  If I use the shim on a cold start, I have almost no smoke at all. 

Now my 671 will give me some smoke on a cold start and she will put out blue smoke when you pull out and run up rpm in first gear.  After that she settles down and there is no visible smoke. 

Thanks for the good advise and clarification here.  You guys are great! 

Bill T.