Still desperately looking for a reasonable way to replace the ZF rear end.

[Busted Knuckle]

OK first off thanks to those who responded to my last post about this. But I am still running into outrageous prices and dead ends.

Weller told me they could get me a new unit for  $24,000  , or they could rebuild my old one for  $8,500 +/-  no guarantee on cost, or time frame.

Another outfit told me to bring it or ship it to them in Orlando and they probably could rebuild it for around $5,000 +/-    again no guarantee.

Setra has five of them on the shelf for only $10,330.51 each "how many do you want us to send?" 

Now I am still hating the idea of tearing it out and shipping it out and having our busiest bus out of service for who knows how long!
I am also most distressed at the thought of paying that much $ for a part when I should be able to find a complete wrecked or \ damaged parts bus for that much or less!

Now a new thought has come to me as I remember Neoplans also used ZF rear ends. Also I believe some Van Hools used them too.

So again I ask those of you who might have any idea where ANY wrecked, damaged, abandoned Setras, Neoplans, Van Hools, or anyother coach that may have a ZF rear end under it maybe. I am open to any leads that can find me a reasonable cost replacement rear end.

Thanks again for your help so far, and thanks in advance for any more tips!     BK 

[JohnEd]

BK,

There is only one yard in Eugene and I doubt they would have it.  I will call around in Portland on Monday morning.  Send me your email address and phone number so I can pass it to the yard.

Hang tough Buddy.  I know there is a lot of help on the way to you....not to mention sympathy.

John

[Sojourner]

BK.....I am seeing something that is different than all others heavy duty rear end, such as having pinion drive gear or whatever over the hub gear. So it has to be ZF brand to fit. Normally a class 8 truck or coach rear end of any brand will work.

Like you said about looking for European coaches maybe the only choices you have or have rebuilt with warrentee only.
Rebuild ZF

ZF Flyer and Brochures/Bus Driveline Technology

BK...which version is it .....the first or the last attachments?

FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

[NJT 5573]

BK,
I'd get it out and see what failed. Any good gear man should be able to pull it apart and set it up. How much of the $5000 is parts? The biggest part of a gear repair is getting every last chunk out of the case and axel tubes, so even after you get it back, there is alot of cleanup to do or it will fail again. How bad are the ring and pinion? Did it just eat a bearing on the input shaft? Maybe you can put a bearing in it and put it back in service. You did drive it home. Gears will take alot of abuse. I have welded pinion nuts on and returned them to service and they are still running.

[Busted Knuckle]

BK,
I'd get it out and see what failed. Any good gear man should be able to pull it apart and set it up. How much of the $5000 is parts? The biggest part of a gear repair is getting every last chunk out of the case and axel tubes, so even after you get it back, there is alot of cleanup to do or it will fail again. How bad are the ring and pinion? Did it just eat a bearing on the input shaft? Maybe you can put a bearing in it and put it back in service. You did drive it home. Gears will take alot of abuse. I have welded pinion nuts on and returned them to service and they are still running.

Yeah I know this but I have only set up 3 rear ends in my life time. One in a race car and it exploded on the line when I dumped the clutch at 8,500 RPM, one that chewed itself to pieces in a short time in one of my OTR Peterbilts, and one that as far as I know is still doing it's job in a one ton GMC 120" stretched limo dually!
The only reason I attempted to do the dually was it was a good customers and he was desperate to get it back one the road overnight and drove to Memphis and brought me all the parts back so I could put it together over night. Which I did and I pulled it out of the shop for a test drive at 6:30AM and it loaded 12 people headed to Miami, FL at 7:00 AM! But he was tickled to death about it being done and trouble free! I have been gun shy about building my own every since I exploded the one first time out!   

I wish I knew! He said that is the reason for the guesstimate because he'd have to see what all it needed before he'd know how much it would be! Ya know, it c=scares me when he says $5,000 +/- and can't break it down with out seeing it first!

I understand the clean up part I have replaced many "chunk's or diff's" over the years, I'm just shy of building them myself! I always clean, clean, and reclean before installing one.

I don't know that yet, but when I get it home tomorrow I plan to pull it and check it! I am still running it by filling it with fresh Lucas before every trip to cut down on the noise. It is our biggest and most popular coach that goes out twice as often as any of the others which is why I am scared to just pull it out of service and be "out of service" until who knows when. But I have decided to bite the bullet and pull it first thing Monday AM, and see just what we got. Maybe I'll get lucky and be able to just replace the pinion bearing & seal, and get the gears adjusted! (yeah right I know better than that!)

Still driving it! Just nervous as can be about it failing on the road with a load! Will find out tomorrow just how bad it's gonna be!

As I said I appreciate all suggestions, options and ideas. I am still using it on an have to basis, but that will end tomorrow morning one way or the other as far as using it goes. I am still hoping to find a used one to either use or rebuild for future use! (from what I hear these have a pretty high failure rate!)    BK   

[Dallas]

Bryce,
What about the differential yhat's in the junk bus that came from Idaho not too long abo? Does it have the ZF rear end or is it a Rockwell-Meritor-etc?

Dallas

[steve5B]

  Bk,

  There was a serta on CRAIGSLIST listed here in my home town ( Mooresville , In.) several weeks ago.  I have seen it several

  times passing down the road I use.   If it isn't listed I'll stop bye and check it out for you.   It's been there for several years, might be a good parts bus!


Steve 5B..........

[Slow Rider]

And you can use the "serta" to lay on while you work on your "Setra" 

good typo

[NewbeeMC9]

BK,
You sound like your best option so far,  you have progressed along the learning curve






Sorry, only have moral support on this one.

[zubzub]

I will get my hands dirty with anything except I'm scared of trannies and rear ends.
Sounds like you are in the same place.  My 2 cents is stop using it, open it up (you're going to have to any how) and decide if you can do it.  next step is doing it or taking it to a shop that does rear ends.  But you never know, I have been pleasantly surprised more than once  when I thought all hell was breaking loose only to find it was one bearing and a seal.  Good Luck.

[Sammy]

BK, what about retrofitting another Axle, like a Meritor??
Take that DU out and see what's wrong with it,then you'll be able to price it out
Might be just a bearing, not a big deal to do.
Never did a ZF, but I've done RTS ones.
Call me if I can be of any help.
Sammy 

[Busted Knuckle]

BK.....I am seeing something that is different than all others heavy duty rear end, such as having pinion drive gear or whatever over the hub gear. So it has to be ZF brand to fit. Normally a class 8 truck or coach rear end of any brand will work.

Like you said about looking for European coaches maybe the only choices you have or have rebuilt with warrentee only.
Rebuild ZF

ZF Flyer and Brochures/Bus Driveline Technology

BK...which version is it .....the first or the last attachments?

FWIW Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Gerald it's not exactly like either, but closest to the second/bottom one or even closer to the one shown on page 16 of the pfd file. Sorry for not answering sooner!

Bryce,
What about the differential yhat's in the junk bus that came from Idaho not too long abo? Does it have the ZF rear end or is it a Rockwell-Meritor-etc?

Dallas

Trust me Dallas I wish it wuz that simple! But even though the housings have the same dimensions they are different as one is ZF and one is Rockwell! Also the Rockwell is geared higher for the 2 stroke & 748 where as the ZF is geared toward the 60 Series & B500! Setra's tech support claims they originally had the Rockwell under the S217's (as well as S215's) but they were having failures of diffs and housings due to the extra weight & power/torque! I believe it is probably just hog wash, but then again I ain't no engineer either! But I do know of a certain Eagle that has a dump truck rear end, and I can assure you that those dump trucks haul way more weight than I ever will and go through a hellof alot more abuse than I will dish out to it too! (so don't think I ain't think'n it!)

  Bk,

  There was a serta on CRAIGSLIST listed here in my home town ( Mooresville , In.) several weeks ago.  I have seen it several

  times passing down the road I use.   If it isn't listed I'll stop bye and check it out for you.   It's been there for several years, might be a good parts bus!


Steve 5B..........

I'll appreciate any info you can get me! Thanks!   BK 

I will get my hands dirty with anything except I'm scared of trannies and rear ends.
Sounds like you are in the same place.  My 2 cents is stop using it, open it up (you're going to have to any how) and decide if you can do it.  next step is doing it or taking it to a shop that does rear ends.  But you never know, I have been pleasantly surprised more than once  when I thought all hell was breaking loose only to find it was one bearing and a seal.  Good Luck.

read below! LOL!

BK, what about retrofitting another Axle, like a Meritor??
Take that DU out and see what's wrong with it,then you'll be able to price it out
Might be just a bearing, not a big deal to do.
Never did a ZF, but I've done RTS ones.
Call me if I can be of any help.
Sammy 

Sammy my man you are thinking right up my alley! I am really considering that but, I am also trying to minimize downtime (at least until I can get another 45'er which this is taking funds away from!)

Me either but I did do a Rockwell once (but it failed shortly after words, so maybe it ain't the best example! LOL)

I will do some more checking today! I got home with it again last night. Once I got my bags and brief case unloaded I backed it in the shop and got the diff ready to pull! I stopped just short of actually sliding it out because it was almost midnight and I didn't have any help. So here shortly I will go down to the shop and finish pulling it and get a final determination as to the exact problem & solution!
I guess worse comes to worse I can call Setra and tell them to send one on over and have it ready for the week end. But that would eat into the $ I have saved toward buying another 45'er, and I don't actually have it booked for this or next week either! So I do have some flex time available, which is why I decided to pull it last night.    BK 

[NEO/Russ]

BK,

When I was working on my Neoplan I wanted the rear rebuilt, the chunk was ok, but one side was leaking oil badly and I didn't like the way it felt.  This was a Mercedes rear end ('81 vintage).  As you know we have several bus and truck rebuilders around Nashville and when I said I had a Mercedes rear they all gave me a blank look.  I finally found ProGear in Orlando and trailered it down there one Easter and picked it up at Labor Day.  It didn't take them that long, but I work and had to have long weekends. 

If that is who you found they looked like a pretty good shop, had a lot of rearends being rebuilt and the mechanics I talked too seemed pretty level headed (unlike some of the potheads I have met).  I don't think there was a warranty, but I had some hub bearings and seals installed, the ring and pinion inspected and clearance set as well as new gaskets (sometimes siliconed).  I can't remember the total cost, but seemed about $3,000.

Just wanted to let you know that if that's the place I have laid an eyeball on them.  Can't tell you how it worked because I sold off that entire rig before finishing. 

[Busted Knuckle]

BK,

When I was working on my Neoplan I wanted the rear rebuilt, the chunk was ok, but one side was leaking oil badly and I didn't like the way it felt.  This was a Mercedes rear end ('81 vintage).  As you know we have several bus and truck rebuilders around Nashville and when I said I had a Mercedes rear they all gave me a blank look.  I finally found ProGear in Orlando and trailered it down there one Easter and picked it up at Labor Day.  It didn't take them that long, but I work and had to have long weekends. 

If that is who you found they looked like a pretty good shop, had a lot of rearends being rebuilt and the mechanics I talked too seemed pretty level headed (unlike some of the potheads I have met).  I don't think there was a warranty, but I had some hub bearings and seals installed, the ring and pinion inspected and clearance set as well as new gaskets (sometimes siliconed).  I can't remember the total cost, but seemed about $3,000.

Just wanted to let you know that if that's the place I have laid an eyeball on them.  Can't tell you how it worked because I sold off that entire rig before finishing. 

Hey Russ thanks for the heads up on them as that is exactly who I found in Orlando! The other was Weller in Grand Rapids, MI which said I could eliminate shipping charges by bringing it to their distributor there in Nashville and letting them put on there regular route trk back and forth. But I like ProGears quote better that I do Wellers! (even though I ain't crazy about either one of them! LOL!)   BK 

[Busted Knuckle]

OK the rear in is out & swinging by a chain from my engine hoist!
It don't look good either.
It definitely has a bad pinion seal. (which we already knew about)
Well it also has rollers from the pinion bearing rolling around all over inside it!
And it seems that from just looking inside it while cleaning it up some that the pinion gear is in pretty rough shape. (teeth chewed up really bad!)
The ring gear has some chipped teeth, but none missing and I have seen much worse still in service in trucks before! (but the determination is it probably should be replaced too!)
The carrier bearings seem to be in great shape! (but if we are rebuilding it might as well replace it all!)

Now comes the hard part, the bus is now needed for FRIDAY night seems a quote we had out now wants to book at the last minute! (of course they may or may not have a bus depending on whether or not we can get to Greensboro & back and have it installed by then!)

Looks like we are gonna go with the new one for now and possibly rebuild the old one for a spare or resale!   BK