I replaced our starter!

[John316]

I replaced our starter today! It was the first one I have put in our bus. It was quite the job. They just HAD to run every wire and cable that they could think of right in front of that starter!!! Anyways I got the old Delco 42mt (I think I will double check on Monday) out. I put a new Mitsubishi starter in (I think that it looks similar to the Delco MT 39, but I don't know), which was MUCH nicer to install. It was lighter, smaller, and easier to install. I love that starter. I just hope that it lasts!!! Our local bus line's head mechanic says that he thinks that those starters are great.

Does anybody know where I can sell the old 42mt (again I will double check on Monday), for somebody to rebuild it? I heard that a core trade in was 250 against a "new" rebuilt starter, but that was just hearsay. I just thought that if we could make something off of it that it would be better than sending it to the landfill.

God bless,

John

[jjrbus]

I replaced our starter today! It was the first one I have put in our bus. It was quite the job. They just HAD to run every wire and cable that they could think of right in front of that starter!!! .

Engineers and designers should not be allowed to ply thier crafts untill after they have spent time in the repair field!!
                                                                                                                                   Jim

[kyle4501]

Engineers and designers should not be allowed to ply thier crafts untill after they have spent time in the repair field!!       
Jim

My thoughts exactly when I was a auto mechanic. That thought was what got me through the task of earning a BSME.

Now that I've been a design engineer for 20+ years . . . . . . .

The reality of it is things sell based on price, NOT the best design.

You get what you pay for.

Sometimes, we cannot take the time to make things easily serviced because the customer will buy from someone else if add the cost for that to the product.

Sometimes marketing will add a feature right before release & we don't have time to add it 'properly'.


While you fuss about the difficulty in the repair, it was repairable. . . . . . It could have been designed where that was impossible. . . .

[bobofthenorth]

The reality of it is things sell based on price, NOT the best design.
You get what you pay for.
Sometimes, we cannot take the time to make things easily serviced because the customer will buy from someone else if add the cost for that to the product.
Sometimes marketing will add a feature right before release & we don't have time to add it 'properly'.

With all due respect to you Kyle and I'm sure the following comments are "present company excepted" .........  there is however one other "sometimes"

Sometimes the engineer is just a putz and he designs something that anyone with a modicum of common sense would never allow to happen.  As is true for any professional organization the presence of a sheepskin hanging on the wall is no guarantee of common sense between the ears.

[TomC]

As far as factory designs go-this is the main reason my conversion took 6 years to do.  On most conversions and sticks and staples, the motorhome is just thrown together with no thought to repair or replacing parts.  For instance-on most motorhomes, if you have trouble with the sewage tank, you literally have to chisel out the insulation and cut the plumbing and anything else to get it out.  On my conversion, all plumbing connections to the sewage tank are clamp type, and I can lower it out easily with a few loosened nuts.  Or take the interior wiring.  Most bury the wiring in the walls then spray in the insulation over it.  I used conduits in the walls for easy replacement of the wiring if necessary, and all other wiring runs outside the wall along the lower left wall for easy access or addition.
When designing your bus, for ease of service, replacement, or just adding more to it, the initial design will make a big impact on your frustration level in the future.  Good Luck, TomC

PS: The Mitsubishi starter is an excellent one!

[jjrbus]

 Sometimes I get my facts a little distorted, and often my memory is a couple gigabites short.  But did'nt Greyhound own MCI? If so would they have not been designing thier products for thier employees to service?  

An engineer with a working background and common sense, a rare but wonderful thing!!  Jim

[makemineatwostroke]

John316; FWIW that starter replaced the Delco 39 as OEM for DD they had to many problems with the Delco 39 and only time will tell about the Mitsubishi starters I wish you luck  and have a great day

[John316]

Thanks guys. I love the way that starter turns over. It just winds up, spins that engine, and it starts purring!!! I just hope that it will continue to work this great for a long time. (I'm not sure if I would go back to the old style starter anyways...It isn't a lot of fun holding and maneuvering a lot of weight over your head, or it out at arms length...LOL )

I agree that the engineers should work on what they design for a while. Good practical hands on experience for them . I have, however, know of some companies where they do have them work on whatever they're designing...good idea!

Well I need to go, and thanks for the replies.

TomC, glad to hear that the starter should work okay for a while!

God bless,

John

[jjrbus]

...It isn't a lot of fun holding and maneuvering a lot of weight over your head, or it out at arms length...LOL )

Its an easy job for the big young strong guys like Kyle. For people like me, a small rolling floor jack used with a little finess is the way to go. Guess I shoulda mentioned that befor.  HTH Jim

[luvrbus]

Any of you guys looking for that type starter I bought a new Delco 39 off the e place for 180 bucks shipping included he has 2 left   good luck

[kyle4501]

I am one of those engineers who has spent the time making things mechanic & parts room friendly. One of my rewards - termination for cost overruns.
Seems the customer didn't want to pay for those features & as a result, the company lost money on the project.

Sometimes, making it easy to service renders the machine useless.


Sure, there are idiots in every profession. BUT, sometimes, it is the customer who is the idiot.


Just remember, paint & polish sells. I can assure you that it is a rare customer indeed that is willing to pay for the mechanic friendly option.

Since everything has a price, it is a compromise  -  lower initial cost at the expense of future maintenance  OR  ease of maintenance at the expense of higher initial cost.

Even Greyhound had to make that choice. . . . . .

[John316]

Kyle, you should design us some inexpensive, easy to work on, roomy buses. LOL. Sorry about your "reward". Most people don't care about the mechanic side. Oh well.

Thanks,

God bless,

John

[RJ]

Since everything has a price, it is a compromise  -  lower initial cost at the expense of future maintenance  OR  ease of maintenance at the expense of higher initial cost.

Even Greyhound had to make that choice. . . . . .

Everyone -

I think an excellent example of what Kyle's talking about is to compare a GMC PD4106 vs an MCI MC-5A.  Both 35 ft, both 4-spds, both 8V71s, both built about the same vintage (early - mid '60s).

Greyhound's San Francisco shop could change out two complete engine/transmission cradles on the GMCs in an eight hour shift.  They could only do one MC-5 per day.  (Two technicians working as a team.)

But by then, GM's fate was sealed, as far as 'Hound was concerned, due to the Scenic fiasco at the corporate level.  And, until just a few years ago, as Greyhound went, so did the rest of the bus industry (line-haul, charter & tour segments, that is).

Anyone who's been around the most common buses used for conversions for any length of time will almost always agree that probably the best engineered, most ruggedly built, most dependable and overall simplest to service is the venerable GMC PD4104.  Sure, it's seen it's heyday, but is what's out there today really that much better, from an overall engineering standpoint, especially when you consider serviceability?  4104s are sort of like a Timex watch. . .

FWIW & HTH. . .