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I need to build a quiet compartment for my new Wrico generator.  Any suggestions for resources to read about how to design my compartment?

Soundown is the good stuff for lead lined dampening.

Used to be discussions on this, both here and on BNO, check the search?

ALL the air needs to be forced to go around corners, incoming and outgoing, the cavities lined in sound absorbing material. Big squirrel cage fan, turned slowly by a multi-speed motor, on on a remote radiator.

Temperature monitoring of the cabinet, and a method of fire suppression is icing on the cake.

That's the executive summary, anyway.
I will be starting the same sometime this coming summer on the new build.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

This is where I bought supplies to re-do the soundproofing on my generator bay:

https://www.soundproofcow.com/

I am sure Dick Wright would have good advise for you.

There was a substantial discussion here one to two months ago.Its about at page 33.

I talked to Dick at Wrico back when I bought my generator from Wrico at the end of October.  He said he would call me back with some ideas, but he never has.  I spent quite a few hours searching here last fall and not finding a whole lot.

I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube of generators mounted in buses.  I know judging volume from a video is questionable, but they all seemed louder than the Powertech I just got rid of.

The Powertech generator with quiet enclosure was not that fancy, but the noise level and vibration level was very low.  The aluminum enclosure simply had about an inch of foam in it.  A squirrel cage blower sucked in air from the bottom and pushed it out the end through the radiator.

Hi Brian,


If you are basing your comparisons of sound volume levels from any video that is not specifically calibrated to some audio standard, then is really is not a valid benchmark to compare other sounds. Human hearing is so subjective it can some sound is lower than actually higher than another.


When I peeked under the cover of acoustic abatement and sound proofing, the easiest path for me was to follow the trailer of those large wheeled industrial generators; the kind you'd find a huge concert, disaster recovery center, etc. It always amazed me when walking by one how quiet some where.


Sound has a way of leaking out from any opening. You really need to shut the door or close the window to notice the reduced volume.


The fundamental challenge is you have an engine inside that needs to take in and exhaust air, meaning you have to have a open air passage way. Big hole for sound to pass through.  Yet, they have super sound engineers that have figured out how to really cut the sound. Poke around for techniques and materials they use and adapt to your own design.

Quote from: windtrader on March 05, 2021, 07:00:23 PM
If you are basing your comparisons of sound volume levels from any video that is not specifically calibrated to some audio standard, then is really is not a valid benchmark to compare other sounds. Human hearing is so subjective it can some sound is lower than actually higher than another.


When I peeked under the cover of acoustic abatement and sound proofing, the easiest path for me was to follow the trailer of those large wheeled industrial generators; the kind you'd find a huge concert, disaster recovery center, etc. It always amazed me when walking by one how quiet some where.

I did mention that trying judge generator sound levels from a video is pretty questionable.

I considered renting a quiet diesel generator just so I could look at the soundproofing, but $300 after taxes and fees is a good chunk of money.

Go to a rental store and take picture of a portable light stand generator it will surprise you how little it takes for a quite generator the air intake is the noise maker on a Kubota,your little Cat engine was a lot less DBA than the Kubota     

If I had known the Cat engine is a lot quieter than the Kubota I might have been just replaced the generator head on my Powertech generator.  Too late now as the Powertech is gone and I already have the Wrico replacement.

I don't know that a rental place is going to allow me to open up a light tower to look at the soundproofing.

I only want to do this project once.  I don't want to build an enclosure and rent a forklift to install the generator only to find it is too loud so I have to start over.  My biggest issue will be remote mounting the generator.  Wrico included a giant squirrel cage blower for the radiator, but that thing is huge.  I don't know where to put the blower and radiator that doesn't involve taking up half a luggage bay.  My luggage bay space is already small as I have less luggage space than a 40 foot MCI.

I am hoping there are books or websites that have theory or whatever on how to quiet a diesel generator.

Quote from: belfert on March 06, 2021, 07:11:37 AM
If I had known the Cat engine is a lot quieter than the Kubota I might have been just replaced the generator head on my Powertech generator.  Too late now as the Powertech is gone and I already have the Wrico replacement.

I don't know that a rental place is going to allow me to open up a light tower to look at the soundproofing.

You never know till you ask

I don't recall anyone referring to a book or web presence for quieting a generator in all the years we've both been fooling with the internet and buses.

I have always been motivated to watch for that stuff, I was already totally fed up with mechanical and fan noises before we had internet...

The dribs and drabs of archived discussion, and the odd picture "back then" is about it, best as i can remember?

Seems most busnuts are focused on cheapest price point, not quietest install...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

If you're looking for some advice and guidance on soundproofing, the site I linked to earlier has lots of good information. Here's just one of their pages with advice: https://www.soundproofcow.com/soundproof-a-space-restaurant-office/soundproof-a-car-compressor-boat-pump-or-other-equipment/

I am not looking to go cheap on this, but neither do I want to spend new Prevost conversion money on it either.  I would like to be at a couple of thousand max.  I need to buy new steer tires and a new TPMS system this year also.  As already mentioned, my main concern is not having to do the project twice.

I found a website that talks a lot of theory on making a generator quiet.  I have not had a chance to read the whole thing yet.

Quote from: richard5933 on March 06, 2021, 10:17:26 AM
If you're looking for some advice and guidance on soundproofing, the site I linked to earlier has lots of good information. Here's just one of their pages with advice: https://www.soundproofcow.com/soundproof-a-space-restaurant-office/soundproof-a-car-compressor-boat-pump-or-other-equipment/

There are a number of companies that sell soundproofing products, but I don't see much information about just what reduction in decibel levels are achieved in actual installations. Some of these products are very expensive and I would need to know what I would get for the money plunked down. Going by soundproofcow prices, I would refer to them as cashcow for short. We need before and after decibel ratings of specific installations.

I found this article on quieting a generator: https://800nonoise.com/tutorials/generator-set-noise-solutions/

 The Onan QD series are some of the quietest out there, They are totally enclosed in a box with all services done thru the bottom of the enclosure, fresh air is taken in at the bottom and released the same way. With water cooling temps are controlled in all environments.  Mine uses the Kabota three cylinder engine and has 2600 hours of trouble free use.>>>Dan

The kind of quiet i am after, and i expect Brian is too, is much quieter than an Onan Quiet Diesel.

Most, if not all of theirs are spinning at 3600 rpm now, and do not lend themselves well to the strategies to make one silent.

Imagine a bus conversion sitting in a field, and you can't tell the generator is running as you walk up to it.

That is a worthy, and challenging, goal.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

I'm not looking for a silent generator.  I just want it to be at least as quiet as my former Powertech generator and not overheat when operating it while driving.

The Powertech was probably just a little bit noisier than a Honda generator.  It did not really change in pitch like a Honda as the load shifts.  It was quiet enough that someone could sleep through the night in a bed directly above the running generator.  I think if the air conditioner was running the wind noise from that would mostly drown out the generator.  The generator mostly blended into the background when running, but it was noticeably more quiet when it was turned off.  One event I go to a lot of people run construction generators that I can hear from 100 yards away.  In those cases I had to be within about ten feet of the generator to even hear it running over the construction generator.

I go to a yearly event and one year a newbie at the participant's meeting asks if generators are allowed at night.  I about had a heart attack when the event director said no which was a change from previous years.   Our group was running a food stand so we had a 15 CF freezer and a household fridge that needed power.  I talked to the event director after the meeting and he said don't worry about it.  I could run my generator at night as it is not loud.  I have an auto start when the batteries get low.

Hell with the genny - go solar - hear the ants marching!

 The QD series operate at max load at 2880 RPM and are controlled with AC to "on demand" RPM to meet the load.  At 1/2 load is 68DP at ten feet and 0.56 GPH..>>>Dan

It seems that one way to keep the noise down is to go with a substantially smaller generator which is offset by a larger battery bank and a good hybrid inverter.

The hybrid inverter can be used to help carry the extra AC load when needed from the battery bank, and then it will recharge them when the load is reduced.

Seems like this smaller gen/hybrid inverter is being used in more and more of the higher end coaches, especially those with large lithium banks and solar on the roof.

I already purchased a Wrico 12.5KW generator.  I am not changing the generator now.  The 10KW generator may have been fine, but the 12.5KW really leaves no doubt and wasn't that much more money.  I run my generator a lot up at 4,000 feet so it won't give full power due to altitude.

I looked at Cummins/Onan, but it was quite a bit more money.  I'm also not sure it would fit in my bay.  The 12.5KW model runs at a fixed 1,800 RPM.  The hybrid quiet diesel seems to have been discontinued.

I don't use my bus enough to justify buying $5,000 or $10,000 worth of lithium batteries plus a large inverter and a bunch of solar panels or a smaller generator.  I don't think I could fit enough solar to generate as much power as my generator.  It makes sense for me just to buy a generator and burn fuel in it.  I have solar at home, but it makes sense there.

Getting back to the make it quiet question. If you bought that 12k penny from Wrico, call back and get some specifics on options for quieting it down. You forked over a huge amount of cash, they need to step up to get you going. From what I have heard they are very good at support so try again.

My Onan 12500 is quite as a mouse they  run @ 1800 rpm like Brian stated.mine is bitch to service and on a slide with out the slide it would be impossible ,the top has to come off to change the air filter,the side has a door you remove to change the oil filter and you cannot see the fuel filter hidden , mine has nothing you can service from the bottom the oil plug is the only item you can remove from the bottom,it a good generator though ,I like the priming system on a Onan just hold the stop button down till it primes 

if you want to find out how the light tower generators or other units deal with noise, go to a large rental outfit. They have them. Go check them out.

if you want to find out how the light tower generators or other units deal with noise, go to a large rental outfit. They have them. Go check them out.

Air flow and vibration is the key to making a generator quite ,good mounts,the cooling,air intake,and exhaust,no need to buy a lot of sound  deading material  both my EPS and Onan quite boxes have about 3/4 of a inch of sound deading material in a metal box.Get around 59 DB and call it good your not building a recording studio   

Agree that "air flow" is critical. That also means how well sealed the box is. We all have experienced even a very slightly opened window and the amount of noise is pretty amazing. Closing that tiny sliver of "air flow" cuts the sound off a bunch.


If you look at the design of good sound boxes that require lots of air flow you will see various bends that deflect and absorb the sound. It is a real science and no DIY guy will be able to create an adequate engineered design.


If you can't go to see a few sound deadened machines look on the internet for the construction details so you can get a good idea of the engineering principles applied for sound abaetemnt.

Justin from Wrico drew me up a possible layout for how to position the generator in the space I have.  He kept telling me there are too many variables to suggest a good design for a sound box for me.  I talked to Dick one day and Dick said he was not familiar with Dina coaches, but I sent him pictures and he promised to call me back which never happened.  Dick hasn't been in the office much due to COVID so getting in touch with him is tough.  The day I talked to Dick he was only there because Justin happened to be taking a day off.

I have a friend who is an engineer and works with a lot of other engineers.  I am trying to get in touch with him to see if he can help with my design.  He goes on trips in my bus so he has a vested interest in a quiet generator.

 Red Rider has a Wrico AIR COOLED diesel genny (6500 )  that's exeptionally quiet considering it's in an open box at the bottom and one side. And an all electric coach.>>>Dan

There's 3 concepts to keep in mind for a successful design - sound deadening, vibration isolation and air flow. The low frequencies take heavy material to absorb their energy. The mounting has to isolate vibration or you will feel the sound as much as hear it. And as has already been extensively discussed you need to baffle the airflow while maintaining cooling and combustion air for the genset. I saw a Wrico installation many years ago now. You literally could barely tell it was running standing next to the coach with the gennie doors closed. This is not a place to re-invent the wheel - find something that is working and copy it.

What I am planning to do is call and talk to Dick tomorrow, or more likely, talk to Justin at Wrico.

How loud is the squirrel cage blower for the radiator?  Do I have to worry about noise from the radiator blower if remotely mounted?

Listen to Justin and others here trying to guide you to get what you want. You will NOT do this well as DIY. Talk to your engineer friends but unless they are trained in acoustic abatement specifically, then you are to going to build anything near an engineered design.


Even if you find someone who says they know about managing sound, that's not enough as someone may manage sound in an auditorium, or theater, etc. The physics are the same and they share materials as well. It is the application that makes this so tough. Every dimension is precisely calculated to properly deflect or absorb or redirect sound energy. Plus a dozen other calculations that have to be just right. :ice Bob says, all this has to be done for each category involved in sound management. It is very much a specialized profession. This is all if you want it done well. And that means the proper materials are $$$

I am trying to see if my engineer friend knows anyone that is specifically an acoustic/sound engineer.

I would advise having someone at wrico draw something for you. it can be a trick to fit everything in how you want it. I also have a 12.5k wrico. Just put 110 hours on it. My generator has the radiator in the same compartment. it takes the middle of the front bay, with enough room on the drivers side for my propane tanks. My generator compartment is built out of 18 ga. steel, and sealed, the entire inside is covered with the sound deadening i bought from wrico. I dont think it would have to be a steel enclosure, but that is what i did. From the outside of the bus the generator is way quieter then a honda. you can barely hear it from 30 feet away. of course the loudest part is the exhaust. A exhaust stack would make it a lot quieter for dry camping. I also decided to not have any batteries, inverter, there are no low voltage house systems. (except for propane water heater which is run off converter) Diesel is not that expensive. We also decided that we bought the best genset money could buy and we plan to use it. Which means running all the time we're on the road.

How my compartment is set up.

I have the squirrel cage fan mounted on the outside of compartment, pressurizing compartment. It pulls from a large hole in the floor of the bay, right behind the bulkhead, in between the front tires. Blowing air across engine and thru radiator. From radiator it goes thru the floor, at the back of the bay, 5 feet from intake. have not had any issues. hottest we've driven in was 90 degree weather. The underside of the bus is extremely pressurized right there. (thats what i have found.)

as i said, outside sound level is extremly low. right now, it is noticeable from the inside, but i am going to add some more insulation on the top of the compartment. we will see if that helps.

HTH   mason

Quote from: windtrader on March 07, 2021, 05:07:18 PM
Listen to Justin and others here trying to guide you to get what you want. You will NOT do this well as DIY. Talk to your engineer friends but

Justin from Wrico has already stated he can't help with a design.  It seems like you and most everyone else are stating this is not a DIY task.

I think what I am going to do is drain my savings and order a Cummins Quiet Diesel 12.5KW generator so I don't have to worry about building an enclosure for my Wrico generator.  Part of why I didn't go with Cummins in the first place is the expensive electronics if/when they fail.  The Cummins "Quiet" Diesel seems pretty loud to me at 70 DB.  It is twice as loud as a Honda generator.

I'll have more money in my generator than some people have into their entire bus.

Huh. Just when I try to help.

I'm trying to find some pics of mine, they were on my old phone which got destroyed...

Quote from: 6805eagleguy on March 07, 2021, 06:33:35 PM
Huh. Just when I try to help.

I wrote my reply before I saw your post.

I would like to rent a light tower for a day to look at the soundproofing and see how loud it is, but not sure my minivan could tow it.  Spring load restrictions are in effect for the next six to eight weeks so I can't use the bus right now.

you can learn a lot from scrutiny of a Prevost Marathon. Anyone near by? Or one for sale?

I only have one pic tonight, and that's without a door on the compartment. It still allows a general idea, tho

I do not think light towers are the quietest, but I bet you could go to  a rental place, have them show you one and start it. It would give you some sort of idea

You might want to take a longer look at a 10K QD rather than 12.5.  The ten will more than do the job at less cost,,weight,, fuel burn,, and space.  It's obvious that you will still need a large bank and needed associated electrics to round out the system.  Why haul around what you won't fully utilize just for bragging rights?.>>>Dan

He had a 10kw ,he must need a 12.5 he spent the dollars for one anyways following Wrico recommendations  .it always best to be oversized a little than marginal on a generator because of heat and altitude     

I had an 8KW that was marginal.  It was me who decided to spend a little extra on a 12.5KW to make sure I would have enough power.  I have three A/C rooftop units plus a large variety of other loads like a 15 CF chest freezer.  The price difference between the QD 10KW and the QD 12.5KW is only about $750.  The physical size is the same and the weight of the 12.5KW is only 10 pounds more.

I am sick of having trips ruined by generator issues.  I want to be able to have every single thing in my bus running and not have to worry about running out of power.  Even in September it can be miserable in the Midwest due to high humidity levels.  Last year was the first year in a number of years I have not brought along a Honda EU2000 generator to at least have basic power if the generator broke.  In 2012 or 2013 I spent an entire day of my trip fixing the generator.  I had to borrow a generator that year to keep the fridge and freezer running.  The next summer I installed a slideout for the generator to make it easier to work on.

A 10 kw 50 amp is still marginal on a electric coach with 3 roof tops staring and running the roof in the heat roof tops will draw around 18 amps,then add the charging system on inverters plus a fridge it adds up then generators drop amps in heat and altitude,a 8 kw will not run 3 roof tops in Az a 10kw struggles and most of time you can only run 2 after you get the AC compressors started 

I only had two rooftop units when I bought my 8KW generator.  If I knew what I know now I would have gone with a 10KW originally.  The need for more power is part of the reason I decided not to spend several thousand dollars to fix my Powertech generator.  When I was starting out on this journey I figured that each A/C unit takes about 2,000 watts to operate so an 8KW generator should be fine.  I wasn't aware of the starting surge back then.

I'm glad you guys do these threads, by the time I'm ready to set up my genny I'll have a good idea of how to go about it. The plan so far is, it's a Wrico residential unit made to run on natural gas so a small pressure adjustment and it'll burn propane. Has it's own enclosure which I'll use, already sitting in the bay. I figure that's good for some sound reduction. McMasterCarr sells isolation pads so I'll get some of those to sit the enclosure on. I like the idea of drawing the air from the front bulkhead and discharging through the floor, and I'm thinking either a box around the enclosure or boxing off half the bay. Not sure if a squirrel cage will add anything or not.

My son has a sound meter and I think it may be capable of giving the peak frequency. If it does I'll borrow that and concentrate on reducing that sound by adding a 1/4 wave trap. That part of it is just math. I want to avoid the expensive sound mats as much as I can. From what I've seen most of that is very profitable for the sellers and other alternatives exist.

Jim

Sitting the generator on small airbags is the high end way...

Seat or cab bags, if you want to re-use.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Quote from: buswarrior on March 08, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
Sitting the generator on small airbags is the high end way...

Seat or cab bags, if you want to re-use.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

If I did another one it would be on airbags

I'd have to take it out of the enclosure to do that... which might be an option but seems wasteful. There is a fairly large airspace under the genset for the air intake. Probably for sound control. Once the weather warms up I'll hook propane up and start it, see how it sounds.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on March 08, 2021, 05:59:42 PM
I'd have to take it out of the enclosure to do that... which might be an option but seems wasteful. There is a fairly large airspace under the genset for the air intake. Probably for sound control. Once the weather warms up I'll hook propane up and start it, see how it sounds.

Jim

honestly jim id just put the entire enclosure on airbags. if you have the height. i think it would save you from a lot of vibration. but that may be a bad idea, ive never done it before.

I bought everthing from Dick, 8 K, also went to his seminar at Bus N USA on building a hush  box, did not like or have the room for the large fan, went with a 12 volt radiator fan. genset over heated, upgraded to a "racing fan" per Dick recommendation and fans to intake side of box. Very guiet and little vibration for two years.





'

I talked to Justin for a bit yesterday.  He gave me a few more tips, but we didn't talk about things like what soundproofing material to use.  Wrico sells a variety of soundproofing material, but it doesn't make sense to ship it except with a generator.  Justin said to talk to Dick I would need to call and hope that Dick is in the office when I call.  I'm not going to call multiple times per day to see if Dick is in.

Silverstone, nice install. I would suggest that you encase that wire pair with some split plastic loom or equivalent. It may rub through sometime.

Quote from: belfert on March 09, 2021, 04:35:17 AM
I talked to Justin for a bit yesterday.  He gave me a few more tips, but we didn't talk about things like what soundproofing material to use.  Wrico sells a variety of soundproofing material, but it doesn't make sense to ship it except with a generator.  Justin said to talk to Dick I would need to call and hope that Dick is in the office when I call.  I'm not going to call multiple times per day to see if Dick is in.

You need to understand Jeanie his wife has health problems and Dick spends most of his time with her,I am the same I don't answer my phone for days then get around to calling people back   

Quote from: silversport on March 08, 2021, 11:45:39 PM
I bought everthing from Dick, 8 K, also went to his seminar at Bus N USA on building a hush  box, did not like or have the room for the large fan, went with a 12 volt radiator fan. genset over heated, upgraded to a "racing fan" per Dick recommendation and fans to intake side of box. Very guiet and little vibration for two years.





'

A racing fan would save a ton of space, they are not that loud, or expensive.  Brian, silver sports compartment looks how I believe yours should look. It's really not too hard. As I said you can just make it out of plywood...
You need the flexible sound mat from wrico, comes in a compact roll so not hard to ship. About 54x48"

Quote from: luvrbus on March 09, 2021, 05:44:59 AM
You need to understand Jeanie his wife has health problems and Dick spends most of his time with her,I am the same I don't answer my phone for days then get around to calling people back

Justin won't even take a message for Dick because he knows it is unlikely he will call me back.  That is fine if Dick is unavailable, but then he or his employees should just say he is unavailable.

The one and only reason I was looking to talk to Dick is several posters mentioned I should talk to Dick since I bought the generator from Wrico.  I won't try to talk to Dick since I know he is unavailable now.

I might go with airbags. If I put them inside the box they only have to raise it 1/2" off the floor and I have plenty of room for that, and still have room for sound deadener above the box. Another good idea. Thanks for that. Might still use the pads for when the airbags leak down.

Jim

Pancake Electric fans! What a great idea rather than all the space taken up for the old school style design. And so  cheap. A trip to a Pick and Pull and you'll find a lot full of electric radiator fans. Need bigger, same except for going to big truck wrecker for a fan that for sure will provide enough flow. Happy hunting

Here's my genset. Pics are pretty self explanatory I think...

A few more pics

Quote from: belfert on March 09, 2021, 06:48:18 AM
Justin won't even take a message for Dick because he knows it is unlikely he will call me back.  That is fine if Dick is unavailable, but then he or his employees should just say he is unavailable.

The one and only reason I was looking to talk to Dick is several posters mentioned I should talk to Dick since I bought the generator from Wrico.  I won't try to talk to Dick since I know he is unavailable now.

Call him on Fridays he is there some on Fridays

I even bought the plywood from Dick "sound deadening" product. The photo I attached last time was not a finished install, this is.

Buy you a couple of sheets of lead lined ply wood and a cheap DB gauge from Amazon and go to work,I am sure the cage blower has 3 speeds same I used and I never had to use the high setting on mine and you could  not hear the fan run. Build your box and use the DB gauge to find a problem area with a high noise level solve that which is not hard to do and you will be ok you are not building a rocket 

Quote from: 6805eagleguy on March 09, 2021, 07:51:31 PM
A few more pics

What is on the other side of the radiator? Which way is air flowing through it? It seems the squirrel fan is pushing air in, maybe it's pulling air out?

The radiator is mounted in a box inside the compartment, the fan pressurizes compartment and forces air thru radiator, then thru the floor of the radiator box.

Quote from: 6805eagleguy on March 09, 2021, 07:50:38 PM
Here's my genset. Pics are pretty self explanatory I think...

Thank you for the pictures.

I don't think I am going to be using lead lined plywood unless I buy lead sheet and make my own.  I found a place I thought was local, but it turns out only their corporate office is local.  They manufacture and ship from Tennessee.  $450 for a 4x8 sheet plus he said it would be several hundred for shipping.  They are willing to sell me the product, but the salesperson said it could upwards of $1,000 with shipping and tax.

This will be plenty, smaller, both thickness and area, amounts for less. If I was really want to kill sound this would be a great start for DIY laminated sheets. Maybe 3/4" MDF, contact glue the lead sheet, then something less dense to absorb the mid-higher frequencies. Seal well and call it a day.

Our local Lowe's sells metal lined plaster wall board (Quiet Rock 530 RF +/- $200 per 4x8) which if sandwiched between 1/4" plywood would do the trick for blocking low frequency high energy noise.  Egg crate foam rubber works good for high frequency low energy noise.

Actually, dense rubber floor mat works almost as well as lead for LF noise.  Rubber mat made of chopped rubber re-glued together does not work well as there remains a reticulate of open passageways for sound to escape through.  Jack

you just need to be willing to take a road trip to pick it up. done that many times.

There are alternatives to the lead lining, such as the super dense vinyl layer sandwiched between the two foam layers that I've got in my generator bay. The stuff was put there in 1974 by Custom Coach, and I replaced some of it a couple of years ago. My biggest aggravation is the vibration, and for that I probably should have used air bags when I replaced the mounts.

Belfort, check out Acoustiblok in Tampa, I've known Lonnie for 40 plus years, he's an expert on sound attenuation and has a few products that could do the job, HTH

Im intrigued by the circular cast iron enclosure, Prevost Marathon has used at the exhaust manifold outlet to absorb exhaust noise.

Brian as far as getting a look at the sound deadening on a light tower just go to the rental place that has everything and talk to them about renting a forklift for the day (tell them realistically it will be a week, 2 weeks a month whatever) and then while you are still getting info on the rental, delivery & p/u fees say "Hey before I leave could I have a look inside of one of the light towers to see how they make them so quiet?" 
Most likely if you time your visit right where they are not swamped with customers they will gladly have a "yard hand" or mechanic walk you out to one and open it up for you!
At least ALL the rental places down here would!
:D  BK  :D

Easier than that, stop at a construction site with light towers operating. Put on a hard hat and carry a clipboard, maybe with check off form. Look it over close, make a mark on clip board once in a while.😁

Quote from: chessie4905 on March 11, 2021, 01:09:55 PM
Im intrigued by the circular cast iron enclosure, Prevost Marathon has used at the exhaust manifold outlet to absorb exhaust noise.

Are you talking about the manifold on the marine generators Marathon used for awhile ? .Exhaust is the easy part of the noise to control.The generator in my Eagle was quite as any around with no muffler I just made the  exhaust pipe longer and used a trick from Cat they called a ribbon all it was is a piece of flat bar twisted in a spiral inside the exhaust  pipe     

Custom Coach installed marine exhaust manifolds on the generators they installed as well. I assumed it was to keep the heat in the bay down since the marine manifold had a water jacket which was cooled by the radiator.

Quote from: richard5933 on March 12, 2021, 04:04:24 AM
Custom Coach installed marine exhaust manifolds on the generators they installed as well. I assumed it was to keep the heat in the bay down since the marine manifold had a water jacket which was cooled by the radiator.

I saw a lot of marine generators in buses I owned a 12.5 in the Eagle but never saw the manifold tied into the cooling system on the generator ,mine came with instructions on how to plug it off for universal use like in a RV

Quote from: luvrbus on March 12, 2021, 04:19:24 AM


I saw a lot of marine generators in buses I owned a 12.5 in the Eagle but never saw the manifold tied into the cooling system on the generator ,mine came with instructions on how to plug it off for universal use like in a RV

On mine the coolant definitely runs through the exhaust manifold.

This looked to be about 12 to 14 inches in diameter and about 3 inches thick. Appeared to be attached to manifold at engine.

Quote from: chessie4905 on March 12, 2021, 05:28:25 AM
This looked to be about 12 to 14 inches in diameter and about 3 inches thick. Appeared to be attached to manifold at engine.
[/quote

Never saw that one, Marathon uses turbo generators engines now they are real quite mounted on the gel bags 

I'm sure there have been considerable improvements since this one, that is a 92 model. It has airbags for mounts.Even technology used in 70's and80's would be outdated now. More expertise now on dealing with various noise and vibration frequencies. Even the way they have quieted the diesel clatter now is amazing.

Quote from: chessie4905 on March 12, 2021, 12:14:17 PM
I'm sure there have been considerable improvements since this one, that is a 92 model. It has airbags for mounts.Even technology used in 70's and80's would be outdated now. More expertise now on dealing with various noise and vibration frequencies. Even the way they have quieted the diesel clatter now is amazing.

Really is amazing Joe has a new Chevy pickup with the inline 6 you cannot hear it running,plus a full size 4 door pickup getting 35 to 40 mpg 

Quote from: richard5933 on March 12, 2021, 04:54:20 AM
On mine the coolant definitely runs through the exhaust manifold.

Slightly different layout, but my Martin Diesel 12.5 has the same water jacketed exhaust manifold.

Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 12, 2021, 08:29:00 PM
Slightly different layout, but my Martin Diesel 12.5 has the same water jacketed exhaust manifold.

I don't know that it does anything for noise reduction, but since the generator bay is just below the bedroom (mistake, I know) it does help keep the heat from building and coming up into the bedroom. Even with the air circulation in the generator bay, having the exhaust manifold cooled has got to help keep temps down in there.

When those are installed on boats the water is discharged with the exhaust they have water passing through over the exhaust  at all times when running ,My 12.5 was a Universal brand made in WI there was no water in the manifold ,when they sold out to Westerbeke they stop selling mine for RV use     

Would it work to build 2x4 walls with steel studs all the way around the generator and then fill the walls with mineral wool insulation?  I would use heavier gauge steel studs than they sell in the big box stores.

Would the steel studs vibrate or otherwise transmit sound?  I would put plywood on the studs and then a layer of foam on top of that. I need to do measurements to see if walls of the compartment could even be that thick.

Quote from: belfert on March 13, 2021, 04:22:32 AM
Would it work to build 2x4 walls with steel studs all the way around the generator and then fill the walls with mineral wool insulation?  I would use heavier gauge steel studs than they sell in the big box stores.

Would the steel studs vibrate or otherwise transmit sound?  I would put plywood on the studs and then a layer of foam on top of that. I need to do measurements to see if walls of the compartment could even be that thick.

I would think that it shouldn't take 4" thick walls around a generator to do sounds insulation. That seems like a terrible waste of space. Check out the sound insulation qualities of mineral wool - I suspect that it won't do much for the lower frequency sounds like a lead sheet (or similar substitutes) would.

My generator compartment is where the A/C condenser used to be.  I can't really use any empty space for anything else so I might as well try to isolate the sound as best as possible.  I would still use mass loaded vinyl foam composite on the inside in addition to everything else.

I noticed on Soundown.com they recommend attaching a diesel generator to a steel plate that weighs 50% of the weight of the generator to help isolate vibration.  I have no plans to do that as it would take a steel plate around 250 pounds to make that work.

Quite boxes are made of metal ,if you want strength in metal studs you buy boxed studs ,the rock wool I don't think is going to work for you though

Quote from: richard5933 on March 13, 2021, 04:27:28 AM
I would think that it shouldn't take 4" thick walls around a generator to do sounds insulation. That seems like a terrible waste of space. Check out the sound insulation qualities of mineral wool - I suspect that it won't do much for the lower frequency sounds like a lead sheet (or similar substitutes) would.

Richard ,Brian has always asked for ideas and then does it his way which is good IMO

Quote from: luvrbus on March 13, 2021, 05:23:48 AM
Richard ,Brian has always asked for ideas and then does it his way which is good IMO

I am trying to combine the best ideas you guys have suggested to come up with a quiet generator compartment without breaking the bank.  I was hoping to only spend $2,000 on the generator installation, but I am not sure that is really possible.  I have to rent a skid steer for about $250 just to load the generator into the compartment.  I also have to spend $800 on charge air cooler repair, $550 on new tire pressure sensors, $1,000 on new steer tires, and $175 to replace window glass that a vandal broke.

I looked into the lead lined plywood you suggested, but I am not convinced that it is worth nearly $1,000 for a single sheet of plywood.  The tax, crating, and shipping cost is more than the $450 cost of the plywood.  It really isn't any cheaper to drive to the factory and would take me three days for the trip.  Is sheetrock really a good idea in a bus?  Won't it end up cracking from vibration and the bus twisting going down the road?  Lowes locally doesn't carry the Quietrock at all, but I can apparently get it from two drywall distributors.

I called Soundown yesterday as suggested, but I had to leave a voicemail for someone.  They called me back at the end of the day, but I was driving so I couldn't answer.  I will call them back on Monday.

Some plywood, contact cement, and a roll of lead sheet flashing? Add to that a layer of dense foam with a foil inner layer and an expanded steel mesh to hold it in place and further break up the sound waves?

Quote from: luvrbus on March 13, 2021, 05:13:32 AM
Quite boxes are made of metal ,if you want strength in metal studs you buy boxed studs ,the rock wool I don't think is going to work for you though

I'll plan on a steel box then.  I will have to build it in place so I will need to find a mobile welder to do the welding.  I have a welder, but a first grader could weld better than I can.  The welds will need to be continuous and actually penetrate into the metal so the welds don't break.

My only concern about a steel box is the extra weight.  I'm figuring it will take at least 300 pounds of steel sheet.  I'll end up with 1,000 pounds of weight in the generator compartment.

Your stud wall idea is interesting, in apartment construction they sometimes build a "party wall" which is a 6" wall based on 2x4 studs with double studs staggered to the opposite edges of a 2x6 plate so the plates are the only connection between the two walls, and then fill with insulation. They work fairly well, since you have to vibrate two separate walls to transmit sound. Removing the direct connection of the plates and the attached walls would make it work even better.

Here's an idea for you, since sound can't travel through a vacuum all you have to do is build a sealed box inside a sealed box and pump out all the air.  :o
Seriously though, anything you can do to isolate the inner from the outer enclosure is going to help. That's why I suggested two layers separated by foam rubber. A soft closed cell foam would be better and the denser the inner layer the better.

Jim

Quote from: belfert on March 13, 2021, 06:59:01 AM
I am trying to combine the best ideas you guys have suggested to come up with a quiet generator compartment without breaking the bank.  I was hoping to only spend $2,000 on the generator installation, but I am not sure that is really possible.  I have to rent a skid steer for about $250 just to load the generator into the compartment.  I also have to spend $800 on charge air cooler repair, $550 on new tire pressure sensors, $1,000 on new steer tires, and $175 to replace window glass that a vandal broke.

I looked into the lead lined plywood you suggested, but I am not convinced that it is worth nearly $1,000 for a single sheet of plywood.  The tax, crating, and shipping cost is more than the $450 cost of the plywood.  It really isn't any cheaper to drive to the factory and would take me three days for the trip.  Is sheetrock really a good idea in a bus?  Won't it end up cracking from vibration and the bus twisting going down the road?  Lowes locally doesn't carry the Quietrock at all, but I can apparently get it from two drywall distributors.

I called Soundown yesterday as suggested, but I had to leave a voicemail for someone.  They called me back at the end of the day, but I was driving so I couldn't answer.  I will call them back on Monday.

I'm a frugal cheapskate, and it seems to me that you need to price around some more. $1500 for one sheet of plywood would only be justified if the lining were gold foil, but even then, the price is crazy for the noise reduction you get. Mass loaded vinyl sheets, 12.5 X 4' (50 sq. ft.) by Acoustimax are $64.97 ($1.30 per sq. ft.). Custom Coach (Columbus, Ohio) used cork sheets and lead sheets between layers of plywood to isolate noise. They would probably use mass loaded vinyl nowadays.

Using hundreds of pounds of steel might have a mass absorption factor, but it will surely add to your gross weight and stopping distance. You don't have to rent anything to get your generator in, just jack it up on blocks gradually, and use a cheap come-along to winch it in, or use pipes to roll it in. Tires can be had for less than $1000, and people have survived for decades without tire pressure sensors. Get outside with a tire thumper (or your booted foot) every time you stop. But then, if you have money to burn, send it to me and I'll eradicate it cheaply.  :o

Notice I said I am not going to pay $1,000 for a sheet of lead lined plywood.  I didn't call anyone else about pricing.  I will probably go with mass loaded vinyl instead.

I have BFGoodrich ST230 steer tires now that I like.  What I really need are tag axle tires.  I will move the current steer tires to the tag axle and get a new set of ST230 tires for the steer axle.  Sorry, I am not going going to put the cheapest China bomb tires on my bus.  $1,000 is just an estimate that might be high.  TPMS sensors are worth it to me.  I have had three trailer tires get punctured by road debris.  How many hours would I have driven with a flat trailer tire without sensors?

What gauge steel would be good to use for an enclosure?  I was looking at 11 gauge (1/8" thick), but that gets heavy in a hurry.  Would you attach it to the structure of the bus, or try to have it freestanding?

The condenser bay I use for my generator is about four inches wider than the door.  I also have to deal with the opening mechanism for the door which intrudes into the compartment.  I am really starting to think I will need to sacrifice some other bay space for the radiator.  There is plenty of room for the generator itself in the condenser bay, but not enough for the radiator too it appears.

My condenser bay runs parallel to the length of the bus.

Lead line your own plywood. Install hush mat on opposide side. Hush mat is frequently used to silence car interiors. Mount box on air cushions. Mesh exhaust isolator. Careful isolation for exhaust, power cables, fuel lines going through box.

You should also be able to use an engine puller type cherry picker to install it,, most are good for 1000 to 2500 pounds and on rollers.>>>Dan

Temperature monitoring for the enclosure is a good idea.

And an access port for deploying fire suppression when it catches fire.

Cooking a generator gets expensive...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

After my trip to Menards today I am seriously considering waiting to do my generator project until after I am vaccinated in maybe a few months.  Absolutely nobody was social distancing at Menards.  At least mask wearing is still happening both because Menards requires it and the state requires it.  I know I will be visiting Menards and Home Depot quite a few times during this project.

My original plan was to try to get most of this work done in the five or six weeks before Memorial day when the heat and humidity is not yet an issue.  The weather today is 60 degrees, but this is unusual weather.  It is typically late April before it is consistently warm enough to work outside and the ground isn't mush from the thaw.

I'm double vaccinated, but I still wear a mask, and I would go during a weekday, but not on Saturday or Sunday. It's best to pursue your plans while they are fresh in your mind. I have noticed that Home Depot has some sound insulation products on their website that I have not seen at Lowe's or Menards. If you have a rear view camera that might cover tire surveillance.

From late October to late December I was at either Menards or Home Depot almost every day and occasionally twice in a day.  People were a lot better about social distancing back then.  I was working on my solar project for my house and I kept running into issues that required buying more parts.  I've been lucky enough not to get COVID and want to keep it that way.  I tend to get very sick when I do get a cold or flu so I probably wouldn't get a mild case of COVID.

My plan after digesting everything that has been said here is to build a steel enclosure for the engine and generator head.  A friend of mine is going to draw up the pieces in a CAD program so I can have them cut by a shop.  It will cost me a bit to have a shop cut the pieces, but they will be much straighter than me using a cutoff wheel in a grinder or a sabre saw/reciprocating saw to cut the pieces.

I will definitely use foam with mass loaded vinyl on the inside for sound insulation.  I am not sure if I will put something else behind the foam or not.  I am not going to try to do anything fancy like I was thinking at first.

How do you guys deal with sealing up the sound when you build a door(s) on a steel enclosure?  Not sealing up the paths that sound could travel around the door(s) is sorta like insulating a house and then not having weatherstripping on the front door.

My door closes on weather stripping on each side. Hard to see but you can see the weather stripping at the top of this picture

Basically just foam with adhesive backing

Where you bought the generator is the best advice and Wrico has all the supplies needed. I bought two sheets of 3/4" quiet board to build my compartment-not cheap but worth it. Dick also has the insulation to line the inside of the cabinet, blowers, fans, remote radiators, etc. Good Luck, TomC

I'm not getting any real help from Wrico which is why I asked here.  Dick is willing to help, but he is very rarely in the office anymore and I only talked to him once.

Overlap/oversize the door, easiest way to pinch some insulating material between door and case.

A couple of nuts welded on, and some thumb screws will do a sharp looking job?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

I had a good discussion with Justin at Wrico after my last post here.  I mentioned having someone make me a metal box and he said you really want to find someone who makes boxes/enclosures, and is not just a metal fabricator.  He gave me the names of a couple of companies he has used locally in Oregon.  He used a different fabricator once because he needed something quick, and he said it was obvious their business is not making boxes/enclosures.  I've looked a little bit to see if there is an existing metal box of some kind that would work, but side boxes for trucks are generally not tall enough.

Justin said there is really nothing wrong with a plywood enclosure.  He recommended if I go with steel to do 14 gauge, but he also said something would need to be done to strengthen the 14 gauge to prevent it from vibrating and transmitting sound. 

I am leaning towards doing a plywood enclosure with a good grade of hardwood plywood as it is something I can easily do myself. 

make it with a multi ply plywood. has more layers. Ive seen it in oak and birch veneer. There is also marine plywood, said to be multi ply. Personally havent seen it. the others are at Lowes and Home Depot and Menards, etc. You could use perforated angle iron to reinforce the corners.

I will absolutely use a good grade of plywood if I go that route.  Menards sells some pretty nice 3/4" plywood for about $55 per sheet.  I have no idea if I really need 3/4" or not.  I am not worried about cost so much as reducing weight.  The box really isn't structural other than holding up the squirrel cage fan.

You might want to consider using 1/2 or 3/8 plywood and laminating some lead flashing between 2 sheets of plywood to end up with a 1" or 3/4" finished thickness. Personally I'd stay with the 2 x 1/2" layers to avoid any vibration in the plywood.

What glue would you use to laminate plywood and lead sheet?  I think contact cement would be perfect except for the fact it doesn't like much heat.  Apparently, even sunlight can cause contact cement to fail.  I wonder if epoxy would work?  My biggest issue would be clamping everything together while the epoxy cures.

Some of the examples I've seen (like mine and others) used some type of foil-backed foam over the lead, and then a layer of expanded metal mesh on the interior of that. All of it was held together with screws and fender washers.

There must be different types of contact cement, as the stuff on mine is still holding after 46 years. The foam? It didn't do as well in some places, but the contact cement is still tough to get off.

A pallet of plywood or 10 sheets of drywall should apply enough even pressure.

Quote from: chessie4905 on March 21, 2021, 04:25:48 AM
A pallet of plywoor or 10 sheets of drywall.

But hey you wouldn't have room for the generator after that!!!

I am going to build a cardboard mockup of the enclosure I want to build to be sure everything will fit before committing real money to building an enclosure.

Quote from: belfert on March 20, 2021, 08:31:56 PM
What glue would you use to laminate plywood and lead sheet?

I'm a big fan of West System so that's what I'd use. I'm not sure how well the epoxy would bond to the lead but if that turned out to be a problem you could drill a few small holes in the lead so that the plywood could bond through to itself. West is pretty enthusiastic about unconventional uses for their product so they'd likely answer a question about bonding to lead.

I'd use Weldwood original contact cement.

My concern with Weldwood contact cement is it is good to only 180 degrees once placed into service.  Is this just not something I would need to worry about?  Additionally, I have some concerns about how much the lead sheet will cost.  A local place has 2.5 pound lead sheeting in a four foot by 20 foot roll for $585, but I think I can get it elsewhere for less cost.

Imo don't see a generator enclosure ever getting near that hot. We swear by it. But you gotta feel good about what your doing for sure...

The cavity beyond the radiator, for our purposes, can be considered capable of being as hot as the coolant in the gen...

so a 180 degree limitation out in that space might be a problem.

Inside the gen enclosure, hopefully the air circulation you're building will keep that a non-event.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

It sounds like contact cement will be fine for the enclosure of the head and engine given that there should be plenty of air to remove heat.

What type of places sell lead sheet without having to ship it?  Roofing supply places?

Quote from: belfert on March 22, 2021, 01:40:59 PM
...What type of places sell lead sheet without having to ship it?  Roofing supply places?

Professional plumbing supply (not Home Depot). They use it in shower pans.

Quote from: belfert on March 22, 2021, 01:40:59 PM
...What type of places sell lead sheet without having to ship it?  Roofing supply places?

You can also try local roofing suppliers. Around here they still use it for some types of flashing which needs to be shaped to fit.

Don't forget heat soak when generator is shut down . I wouldnt trust that. Find a higher temp  rated  adhesive.

I suppose I can use a high temp epoxy.  (Normal epoxy is worse than contact cement for temperature.)  The issue there is clamping the pieces until the epoxy sets.  Contact cement is so much easier.  The only high temp contact cement I can find doesn't seem to be much better than regular contact cement and is designed for spraying.

I am wondering if I would be fine without the lead?  My previous generator just had an aluminum enclosure with some sort of glued in foam lining.

Lead will help minimize low frequency noise. Hush mat or other options are used in vehicles to reduce road noise for sound systems. Check that out. How about Gorilla glue. That stuff is impressive.
Look up Hush mat vs. Dynomat.

Sheet lead may be found at commercial/industrial drywall suppliers as it is used in high secret priority construction.

Gorilla glue says 200F max once in service. 

I remembered that a guy I know in Kansas City does MRI machines and similar for hospitals.  I recall him saying he recovers lots of lead sheet from projects.  I think he melts it to make bullets for reloading.  It might be worth making the 16 hour round trip if he has some lead sheet.

Being in interior build out in my earlier construction years we dealt a lot with lead sheeting. It was incorporated in between layers of drywall and mazes in the hvac duck work, conduit runs etc. For what was referred to at "super snooper" rooms in high rise penthouse security suites for companies like Northrop Grumman (space shuttle) Raytheon (patriot missile) & the like. It is (was) also used as "curtains" over partitions that went only to drop ceilings. In an earlier time I scrapped the stuff for $$$. Not so much now... We were also in medical modality construction - lots & lots of leads there...

I didn't read thru all of the thread, but Dick Wright at Wrico International has some very thick insulation that is about the best thing you can use for insulation in your generator compartment.  It ain't cheap, but nobody will hear you screaming about the price with that stuff around.  ;D

I used it when I re-did my generator compartment last summer and now I have to look at the monitor panel to see if my generator is running or not.  Well, not quite.  ;)

http://www.wricointernational.com/

Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 25, 2021, 07:09:36 PM
I didn't read thru all of the thread, but Dick Wright at Wrico International has some very thick insulation that is about the best thing you can use for insulation in your generator compartment.  It ain't cheap, but nobody will hear you screaming about the price with that stuff around.  ;D

I used it when I re-did my generator compartment last summer and now I have to look at the monitor panel to see if my generator is running or not.  Well, not quite.  ;)

http://www.wricointernational.com/

What did you have and drink for lunch  :^

Does anyone have any recommendations on an acoustical engineering firm that would work on a small project like this?  I realize it will probably cost several thousand dollars for their services.

 I realize it will probably cost several thousand dollars for their services.

You are willing to spend several thousand dollars?  Just how important is it to have your generator quiet, quiet?  Don't you use your coach as a food vendor out at a desert function?  Is it that necessary to have a quiet, quiet generator? 
After 140 responses, Brian, I'd say go for it yourself with all the suggestions you have been given.  Put that several thousand in some lead, soundproofing, plywood and build a box with some 90* bends to quiet down the fans and go for it.  :) ;) :D

Quote from: usbusin on March 26, 2021, 01:01:19 PM
I realize it will probably cost several thousand dollars for their services.

You are willing to spend several thousand dollars?  Just how important is it to have your generator quiet, quiet?  Don't you use your coach as a food vendor out at a desert function?  Is it that necessary to have a quiet, quiet generator? 
After 140 responses, Brian, I'd say go for it yourself with all the suggestions you have been given.  Put that several thousand in some lead, soundproofing, plywood and build a box with some 90* bends to quiet down the fans and go for it.  :) ;) :D

I use my bus a few times per year to go to various rocketry events including one event in the desert.  One of my friends used to sell food at the desert event, but she hasn't done it for a couple of years.

I bet an acoustical engineer could design something without using lead.  A lot of people are telling me lead isn't really used anymore.  I am having some trouble coming up with a good adhesive that won't fail from the heat soak after turning the generator off.  Contact cement would be easiest, but it only handles 180 degrees.  High temp epoxies seem to require curing at high temperatures.

Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 25, 2021, 07:09:36 PM
I didn't read thru all of the thread, but Dick Wright at Wrico International has some very thick insulation that is about the best thing you can use for insulation in your generator compartment.  It ain't cheap, but nobody will hear you screaming about the price with that stuff around.  ;D

I used it when I re-did my generator compartment last summer and now I have to look at the monitor panel to see if my generator is running or not.  Well, not quite.  ;)

http://www.wricointernational.com/

Dick's panels are also self adhesive. Give Gary benett from B&B Coach a call and he will help you out.  ;)

I'm trying to go with what you guys are telling me, but I run into problems with just about everything.  Several recommendations to use lead.  I can't find any glue that will adhere lead and withstand the heat soak without having to cure the glue at several hundred degrees.  Well, there are small quantity glues that will work, but I don't want to buy dozens of tiny little tubes of glue.

I will probably order the foam panels from Wrico, but the shipping is very expensive.  It sounds like shipping four pieces of the stuff is about $200.

Quote from: Van on March 27, 2021, 07:20:53 AM
Dick's panels are also self adhesive. Give Gary benett from B&B Coach a call and he will help you out.  ;)

I'm confused.  I thought B&B Coach Works went out of business, or was that a different company in Las Vegas?

Would B&B Coach Works install my generator for me if I was able to get my bus to Las Vegas?  The worst part would be driving to Las Vegas with no power for air conditioning.

Brian I sent you a PM.

Quote from: belfert on March 27, 2021, 07:41:21 AM
I'm confused.  I thought B&B Coach Works went out of business, or was that a different company in Las Vegas?

Would B&B Coach Works install my generator for me if I was able to get my bus to Las Vegas?  The worst part would be driving to Las Vegas with no power for air conditioning.

Gary Bennett at B&B Coachworks is still in business but working out of his home garage in Vegas.  He can probably do this for you.  Give him a call at 702.592.6746.   I was there yesterday and he was there.

I don't know what he is after, without knowing the pitch and frequency of his generator set it is going to be hit and miss and wasted money ,my 12500 QD Onan is @ 42 dba under a load @ 20 ft and is quite

Belfert don't know why you can't use heavy duty staples or screws with fender washers instead of glue, did you ever look at Acoustiblok he's got some impressive products and a free app/tool for designing a system.

I talked to Van and Gary Bennett for a while this afternoon.  I am seriously considering driving my bus down to Las Vegas and having Gary do the generator install.  He has apparently done quite a few generator installations.

Gary and Billy (Van) are some of the very best in the industry. You would do well to take your bus to them.

Couldn't agree more, Gary and Van built my generator install, in my 102C3 AC condenser compartment, cut the radiator thru a wall to the heater core/ Evaporator compartment, exhausting to the road...

The only thing I wish is that it wasn't such a long drive to Las Vegas.  I am always up for an adventure, but the price of diesel is no longer dirt cheap like it was last fall.  In September it cost a bit over $2.25 per gallon average to go to Reno and back.  That was the cheapest in a number of years.

just go ahead and build with what are some suggestions. allow room for adding more sound deadener if needed. I would use lead or double hush mat at bottom since hard to change up later. Sooner, rather than later you need to get this started so you dont eat into travelling season. Id forget about ttavelling to Vegas to have it done. No guarantee they could do it once there anyway. If you want, take a trip in car and pick their brains in person.

Brian,
for less than $100 each roundtrip you can fly them out to Minneapolis and have them do the job at your house.

Or you can fly to Vegas and get some ideas for less than $100. 

Or drive 3400 miles r/t in your bus at 8mpg and $4/gal = $1700 and 6 days driving time.

Your choice; time is slipping by. 

Air fares: https://www.expedia.com/lp/flights/msp/las/minneapolis-to-las-vegas?pwaLob=wizard-flight-pwa (https://www.expedia.com/lp/flights/msp/las/minneapolis-to-las-vegas?pwaLob=wizard-flight-pwa)

Quote from: belfert on March 28, 2021, 12:32:02 PM
The only thing I wish is that it wasn't such a long drive to Las Vegas.  I am always up for an adventure, but the price of diesel is no longer dirt cheap like it was last fall.

It really all comes down to your perspective on the trip. If you're driving to Vegas to have Van and Gary do a generator install then its an expensive genset. If you drive to Vegas for a break from life, to see the bright lights, take in a few shows and while you're out there anyway you get Van and Gary to do a generator install then you just had a fun trip and got a cheap genset install.

I have months before I need to have the generator up and running.  We could still have a nasty snow storm here in Minnesota at this point in the spring.

My hope is to have this done by early June just because I want it done before it gets hot and humid here in Minnesota.  If I take my bus to Las Vegas I would want to do it before it gets too warm since I wouldn't have any power for A/C on the road on the way there.  I expect it will be another month before they lift spring road restrictions.  I have zero interest in seeing the sights in Las Vegas, especially with the whole COVID thing. 

take a pickup, or a car with trailer hitch. then if they sell you materials for the enclosure, you can haul it back in the truck or rent a uhaul trailer for car.

Hey it looks like Brian is doing a great job, nice work!

Looking good and he is at a good testing ground to check the cooling start the 3 AC units the heat here will tell him in a hurry lol 103  here and summer is not here yet  :^

It'll be mid-upper 90's here today. A little more fab work, a new Proggresive transfer and some wiring and Brian will be on his way ;)

Quote from: belfert on March 27, 2021, 08:01:27 PM
I talked to Van and Gary Bennett for a while this afternoon.  I am seriously considering driving my bus down to Las Vegas and having Gary do the generator install.  He has apparently done quite a few generator installations.

Gary B and Van have pretty much done everything in Busdom Installations. :^

Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 05, 2021, 12:48:06 PM
Gary B and Van have pretty much done everything in Busdom Installations. :^

    :^  ;)

Another happy camper!

Happy camper is when you see nothing in that bay. will post later in the season when that project hits the top of the list. :)

Should line ceiling and also protect wiring and whatever else up there. Nice so far.

Quote from: chessie4905 on May 10, 2021, 03:32:55 AM
Should line ceiling and also protect wiring and whatever else up there. Nice so far.

Ceiling is lined if you look closely.

The only problem I am having is an annoying ticking sound that Gary Bennett said is coming from the electric fuel pump. I don't think it is normal.

I am still eight hours from home so I have not played with it yet.  I want to disconnect the pump from its 12 volt power and see if the ticking goes away

May be from pressure control internal to pump.I seen(heard) others do that.

A bit late to the conversation, but may be helpful later...

The previous pics showing the generator being mounted in the luggage bay look good, lots of space around it. See attached pics for another approach, done by the original owner/builder of our bus.

The frame was extended and reinforced to accommodate putting the generator under the driver seat of this Eagle Model 10. I think the idea was to get it as far from the sleeping space as possible, and to leave more storage bays open. It sits on airbags, the radiator and fan are remote mounted outside of the compartment, and the exhaust exits via a roof stack. There is an opening below for fresh air, and a small fan up high pulling hot air out of the space when running.

The good is that it's relatively quiet when the door is shut, at least compared to when the door is open. The bad is that it does get a bit hot in there after it runs a while. We just installed a 5kWh lithium battery bank, so the generator will only be used in 10-15 minute increments to push power into the batteries when needed, so it's fine.

However, having more space around the generator, and if access is tight having it on a slide out platform for service, would be ideal.

That wouldn't work on a GMC or probably MCI. Also, steering shaft in the way.Too much important stuff in there already and more weight added to front wheels. Interesting idea on an Eagle though. You could add more insulation to top of floor at driver area. Maybe a seperate solar operating fan to remove heat from above engine. Fan on its own small solar panel to avoid robbing current from main ones. Interesting.

Looks like a very clean Eagle but must be a high driver?

Quote from: chessie4905 on May 12, 2021, 03:52:30 AM
That wouldn't work on a GMC or probably MCI. Also, steering shaft in the way.Too much important stuff in there already and more weight added to front wheels. Interesting idea on an Eagle though.

Actually it wouldn't work on a standard Eagle either, see pics below. The front was extended and completely modified to accommodate it, including raising the driver seat to the same height as the rear floor, and all electrical was relocated. I believe the steering gearbox may not be standard issue either, but not sure. The original owner/builder was determined, so he found a way to make it work.

However, it's difficult to service as it's so tight in there. A slide out platform, like some of the larger bus conversion companies do for generators, would make it easier. That is what makes the installation B&B did look nice to me, as there is plenty of room around it for service...

Quote from: 6805eagleguy on May 12, 2021, 06:53:18 AM
Looks like a very clean Eagle but must be a high driver?

Yes sir. Not sure if having the generator below is the only reason it was done, but have seen others who have done the same, so maybe he would have done it anyway...