So I had an unfortunate experience today attempting to remove the inner lug bolts to get at my leaky airbag. I bought a new 3/4 drive electric impact that worked on a couple of them if I got it good and hot with the propane torch first. I still usually had to break it loose with the breaker bar and a large cheater pipe. Unfortunately I ripped the head off one entirely which is going to make for a fun time...
Anyway, What do you use to make this process less awful? I still have 6 more to go and will need a torch for the broken one.
Maybe you can get one of these locally?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30165-Budd-Wheel-Nut-Remover-for-Broken-Inner-Nuts-US-Steel-/162644856179
The limited lifetime of a few uses gives me pause at 55 bucks. Maybe have a guy thats good with a torch can assist you. You were using proper impact socket with 3/4 drive? Also let the other nuts set overnight with pb blaster or equivalent sprayed several times where the nut contacts the wheel.
The exact same thing happened to me 3 days ago.
First I welded the broken piece back onto the stub. It broke again.
Then I welded a big nut onto the stub. It broke again.
I tried a big pipe wrench with a floor jack. Didn't work either.
I ended up grinding as much as I could off, then I drilled 3 holes into the flange, and chiseled what was left off. Took a day and a half. The steel is hard and tough to drill. You have to be careful not to damage the wheel or the stud.
I could've removed the hub with the drum and wheel attached and removed the stud from behind. It is held on by a nut. But I didn't feel like doing that, and the whole time I was convinced that it would only be another minute. It would've been quicker and easier to remove the hub from the start.
Anyway, it was a bitch.
I think maybe it was cracked from somebody before me over torquing it. Take a close look at all the others.
Good luck.
JC
I didn't want to use heat that would transfer to the wheel (aluminum in my case) and the stud. Although the stud is replaceable.
The problem is that the nut is clamped into the wheel flange with 450 ft/lb of torque. I used PB Blaster, but I don't think it penetrated at all. I was only able to move it until after the tension was released by drilling the holes.
JC
The nuts and studs are grade 8. You will need hardened titanium or similar to drill the flange. A Dremel with 1/16" carbide ball bit will work to make the holes. Wear face shield though as it will spit micro slivers of metal. Use a magnet to remove them from your hands, arms and sleeves.
I guess I should mention that the nuts are marked if they are left hand with an L on the end. Sometimes you need a 1" drive impact, with proper socket to deal with nuts that havent been removed for years. 2000+ lb. ft. can make the difference.
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 28, 2020, 06:46:52 AM
I guess I should mention that the nuts are marked if they are left hand with an L on the end. Sometimes you need a 1" drive impact, with proper socket to deal with nuts that havent been removed for years. 2000+ lb. ft. can make the difference.
Could someone have installed the wrong stud on this particular one? Check carefully to make sure.
If the tool at $55 is too high, see if the local parts store has loaners.
Those 55 dollar tools don't work good if the square is completely gone on a steel wheel, I use a torch and split the nut or sometime if you have enough room I drive a cheap H/F socket on the stud and weld it to the stud not with a wire welder I use the old fashion stick welder
Hi;
Might try using a "torque multiplier". Also, when I put the wheel back on,
I use "neversieze" so that I don't have that problem again. Found my
"torque multiplier" on ebay and did not cost that much.
Good luck, Merle ;)
I suppose never seize on the flange that contacts the chamfer on the wheel holes would be a good idea. Any lubricant on the stud threads is controversial ;)
The chamfer would be also.
Been using never seize on the lugs with a 3/4" CP for 40 years without issue. They stay tight & remove easily.
Just bought a new to me used pickup and went to pull the wheels to inspect everything. Loosened all of the lug nuts with a star lug wrench except for 2 of them. Got out my air impact which i could easily take off the lugs on my bus that were torqued to 480 lbs.....didn't even budge these two. Finally ended up using a breaker bar and a 1 & 1/2 ton floor jack and slowly applied pressure and they finally popped loose. Was afraid that i was going to break the studs or the bar. Since sometimes we get way out in the middle of nowhere with no cell service i want to be able to change a flat. Just like all of my other rigs i have owned, from now on nobody will put wheels on with an air gun. They either hand torque them while i am watching or i will do them myself.
I've had rims that were rusted to the hub that would not come off without using a twenty pound sledge from the inside. A little Never-Sieze on the hub or rim is what I use now. If anybody is running on salty roads, it is very prudent to use it.
So far the only Impact I've used is a 3/4 drive. All the ones I got loose (and broke) were with the cheater bar. I'm pretty sure the penetrating oil has no luck with how well everything is sealed. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this fun problem at least... Next step is to try to get the old torch I found in my parent bard working and see if I can coax it loose that way.
When lug nuts are that tight, 3/4" drive extensions can flex or twist, not allowing maximum torque. Keep extension as short as practical. One inch drive, cheater bar and extensions with a jackstand to ensure proper alignment will break it loose or snap it off.
I think a lack of keeping it straight was the cause of the broken one. It looks like it pulled it off sideways while I was hanging on the other end of the bar. As far as the size goes everything I have so far is 3/4 drive impact which I haven't managed to break yet. I'm hoping to not have to go with 1" so I don't have to spend a bunch more money. I probably would have started with a 1" air impact if my 1930s compressor could keep up...
PPO
(patience & penetrating oil)
I have a torque multiplier similar to this one on ebay (# 153406041907 )
I have run a thin (ground down a standard one) outer nut down on the inner nut & welded them together. If the weld is over the inner stud, it will back off.
I then replace that stud.
Alcoa has specifications for minimum length of stud past the mounting flange. Too short & the inner nut has a tendency to loosen or crack. . . . .
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 30, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
I have a torque multiplier similar to this one on ebay (# 153406041907 )
I have run a thin (ground down a standard one) outer nut down on the inner nut & welded them together. If the weld is over the inner stud, it will back off.
I then replace that stud.
Alcoa has specifications for minimum length of stud past the mounting flange. Too short & the inner nut has a tendency to loosen or crack. . . . .
I thought about sacrificing one of the outer lugs for that method. I'm not sure my crappy mig welder will manage to attach it well enough though. If the newly acquired torch doesn't make the cut that or the drilling method is next.
Quote from: benherman1 on April 01, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
. . . . I'm not sure my crappy mig welder will manage to attach it well enough though. If the newly acquired torch doesn't make the cut that or the drilling method is next.
Get the nut on, heat nut & inner nut with torch, weld on it while it is still hot - the weld will penetrate better when the parts are preheated.
Good morning Kyle
uncle ned
I read an article some time ago which stated that it is dangerous to heat a wheel with an inflated tire on it.Apparently the additional heat can cause the tire to explode.Don't know if this
is true or not but its worth considering.
Yes I would think it is true. When I was welding onto the wheel nut last week, I had the tire still on, but I was constantly feeling for heat migrating to the wheel and the tire. I had a pail of cold water with a wet rag to keep everything cool...
The deed is done. I tried about everything we could come up with and it finally came loose. I'm probably not remembering everything but the list of dumb attempts is as follows:
Heat the outside quickly till It gets easy.
Get it red got then hammer a chisel in.
Use a bolt splitter on the mark from the chisel.
Put wax in the threads while its still hot.
soaked in penetrating oil (for the last two weeks.
Angle grinder on the end then hammer at it with the chisel in the new cut.
Crowbar in the cut.
Dremel drilling at the base
What finally got it loose: Dremel cutoff wheel slicing at the base then large amounts of heat.
I learned a valuable lesson at least. As my friend Jim put it "Big trucks, Big bucks". I got two more off today without incident and will attempt the last four on the next nice day.
Finally having success on an impossible job like that is sure a good confidence booster. Well done!
dremel tools are the best for hard parts in small spaces.
Congratulations.
Melbo
If one is worried about heat causing the air in the tire to expand enough to blow the tire, let air out of the tire.
I was thinking the same thing Lin, just take the valve core out.
Sometimes this can happen to auto lugnuts. Did for me last fall. Aluminum GM wheel with recessed stud holes. Had those lugnuts with the thin stainless steel caps on them. First the shell came off, then using slightly smaller sockets driven over the stub with a 2 lb hammer, couple of different nut removers, then bought this set and it finally came off.
I managed to snap another one... This time the wrench was nice and straight. It just made a big crack and let loose.
At least I have a plan this time. After that there's only one more to go
Looking at what i can see of that wheel, if it was me i would bite the bullet and buy all new steel wheels, studs, and nuts and then never ever let anyone use an air gun when putting tires on.
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on April 07, 2020, 05:50:24 AM
Looking at what i can see of that wheel, if it was me i would bite the bullet and buy all new steel wheels, studs, and nuts and then never ever let anyone use an air gun when putting tires on.
Somebody definitely had some fun putting them on. I did the math on what kind of force I had on it when it snapped and its somewhere in the mid 2000 ft lbs territory. I managed to get two more loose a few minutes earlier with that and some heat. At first I figured they must just be rusty but once I brake them loose then are finger loose after half a turn.
I'd love to replace them someday but for now that's considerably out of my price range. Since I've been cooking the paint a bit I might clean them up and paint before I put it back together. I've driven it less than 40 miles since I bought it so I'll want to drive around some and find out if anything is going to ruin my day before I start buying the nicer upgrades. Once I get the airbag replaced and some new fluids in it the next plan is to surprise my parents by showing up with it.
Got this one too. One more to go after work and the wheel is off. Hopefully its one of the easy ones...
Working from home is pretty nice when you can spend your lunch break working on the bus.
You know to go really light with the paint at the mating surfaces for the fasteners?
Too much paint allows the fasteners to be tightened up, then the paint squeezes, and the fasteners are now loose.
One of the things that came out of the government research into wheel-offs back in the 90's.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on April 07, 2020, 10:08:01 AM
You know to go really light with the paint at the mating surfaces for the fasteners?
Too much paint allows the fasteners to be tightened up, then the paint squeezes, and the fasteners are now loose.
One of the things that came out of the government research into wheel-offs back in the 90's.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I hadn't heard of that. In that case I'll probably just tape the mating surface before I start. I figured the torque would crush any paint out as it was tightened.
Check the backside of your wheels for cracks, found that both my front wheels had cracks that didn't show from the front. That plus the wear on the holes from being over torqued so many times convinced me to buy new wheels, even got one for the spare.....at the time they were $106 for a white painted wheel.
Got the last one off and got started on replacing the bag. It took two rounds of heat before I could crack it loose but It came loose in one piece. Hopefully I'll have the new bag done tomorrow weather permitting.
Ed, I'll definitely clean them and have a close look. I'd rather not have an incident on the road.
Rather than masking the holes (a PITA unless you can find the right plugs) you can try wiping off the paint from the seat with a solvent soaked rag. Might want to wear thick rubber gloves.
Jim