Well! I bought a different bus today. It's a 1996 MCI 102DL3. I currently have a MCI 102c3 with a 6v92TA bus that I am still gutting but I just couldn't pass up on the opportunity to purchase a D series with a Series 60 with 40 k on the rebuild. It's interior is mostly gutted. The PO purchased it from California a few years ago and drove it to Wisconsin. It dosen't have a Wabesto which is too bad. The Windows arn't as heavy as my c3 Windows so I plan on swapping them. My plan is to part out my C3.
The PO tore out the upper luggage rack Air Conditioning by just cutting the copper lines. So, my guess is all the freon is out of the system. The PO says the OTR AC does work. So I guess I need to cap those lines and recharge the system to see if it actually works. I need to find the manuals somewhere so I can become more familiar with this bus. Here are some pics.
Great news!
Double the bus, double the fun!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Tax steering?
oh boy, i like the look of that engine!
Does it have jakes? (just curious!?) ;D
I don't think it has jakes. It does have a retarder. I need to learn how to use that. Jakes would be nice.
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on April 06, 2019, 01:41:33 PM
oh boy, i like the look of that engine!
Does it have jakes? (just curious!?) ;D
COOL! Same year as my DL3. They really stripped it out didn't they?
Each of those OH AC's had a solenoid cutoff valve on the high side but I don't know where it is located. If the low side is open it's highly doubtful you have any freon.
Great bus. Should have the B500 6 speed with retarder. Andy tells me I won't find much use for the Webasto (actually Eiberspaecher) because it burns 4 times the fuel idling that the engine does so you may not miss it.
If you would, could you check how your dash fresh air vent works? (you can easily lift and pop out the cover panel at the front of the bus to access that area, wash the filter and such. Does yours have just 1 T-handle cable for heater control? If so that fresh air damper cable has to go somewhere. Mine was removed and I'd like to know what was there to begin with and what you did to open and close the damper.
It should have lockable tag axle steering, rear lift for extra clearance, kneel, and maybe more.
The manuals are online at MCI but the ones I downloaded had the schematics cut off and are almost useless. Let me know if you find something complete.
Jim
I doubt it has Jakes just the preset % on the retarder on the B500 if you are lucky it will have a joy stick so you can control it, if it does have Jakes it will only be on 3 cylinders from the factory,those are not steering tag axles they just follow and lock in place at around 20 mph
No Jakes-valve cover is flat.
Quote: Andy tells me I won't find much use for the Webasto (actually Eiberspaecher) because it burns 4 times the fuel idling that the engine does so you may not miss it.
Unquote
That's an exaggeration.
"Andy" isn't helping you or us with this statement. Fuel burn is a fraction of engine idle.
Interior won't stay warm, engine won't stay at operating temperature.
Coach goes cold on those long downgrades in cool weather... the Admiral is going to be pissed...
All of 'em install these expensive beasts from the factory for a reason, not out of the goodness of their hearts
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I've heard you can put a claw-foot tub in that model MCI !... ;)
I don't believe I have a Wabesto. I don't see a control for one and I haven't been able to find one in the engine compartment. Although, honestly I haven't found a manual yet so I don't exactly know where to look. If in fact I don't have one how might I heat the coach?
Quote from: buswarrior on April 07, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
Quote: Andy tells me I won't find much use for the Webasto (actually Eiberspaecher) because it burns 4 times the fuel idling that the engine does so you may not miss it.
Unquote
That's an exaggeration.
"Andy" isn't helping you or us with this statement. Fuel burn is a fraction of engine idle.
Interior won't stay warm, engine won't stay at operating temperature.
Coach goes cold on those long downgrades in cool weather... the Admiral is going to be pissed...
All of 'em install these expensive beasts from the factory for a reason, not out of the goodness of their hearts
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Mine has just 1 T handle for the heat. There is a button on the shifter console that is used to open a damper to let fresh air in. at least I believe that is what it is for.
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on April 07, 2019, 08:57:09 AM
COOL! Same year as my DL3. They really stripped it out didn't they?
Each of those OH AC's had a solenoid cutoff valve on the high side but I don't know where it is located. If the low side is open it's highly doubtful you have any freon.
Great bus. Should have the B500 6 speed with retarder. Andy tells me I won't find much use for the Webasto (actually Eiberspaecher) because it burns 4 times the fuel idling that the engine does so you may not miss it.
If you would, could you check how your dash fresh air vent works? (you can easily lift and pop out the cover panel at the front of the bus to access that area, wash the filter and such. Does yours have just 1 T-handle cable for heater control? If so that fresh air damper cable has to go somewhere. Mine was removed and I'd like to know what was there to begin with and what you did to open and close the damper.
It should have lockable tag axle steering, rear lift for extra clearance, kneel, and maybe more.
The manuals are online at MCI but the ones I downloaded had the schematics cut off and are almost useless. Let me know if you find something complete.
Jim
with my Cat if it is below freezing and I am not going up a hill the engine and the inside of the coach is cool not hot unless my aqua hot is on . if not my nuts get cold .
in the 2.5 days I drove from Florida to home this year the aqua hot burner ( timer is on the just the burner only) was on for 18 hrs of that time and the outside temp. was -10-15 cel . or 5-15 f so yes the other heat source is needed if you are driving in the cold weather on my coach
so 18 hrs x .4 gal. of diesel = 7.2 gal of diesel approximate over 1500 miles
not that bad to stay warm and have the engine at the recommended temp.
dave
Open the roadside (left side) engine access door stick your head in and look up. If you have a webasto thats where it will be. I was under the impression that all D series coaches with series 60 had either a webasto or eberspacher installed, at least thats what my manual says.
That vintage D series when equipped with jakes had them on the first 4 holes, with the the valve cover dropping down flat under the floor over holes 5 and 6. MCI used different model jakes on those than what is used on other series 60.
He needs to check to see what engine he has the 11.1 is not the best series 60
I have a 1996 12.7 L. The serial number is
6067GK28
Quote from: luvrbus on April 07, 2019, 04:16:19 PM
He needs to check to see what engine he has the 11.1 is not the best series 60
Does anyone know what this is by the drivers left knee? Is this a Wabesto controller? I don't have a manual yet so I can't look it up. Whatever it is I can get it to turn on. I really appreciate the help.
Yes thats the controls for the webasto.
It's anybody's guess what the power is set to on your engine, only way to know for sure is to plug in to it and see. Thats the model number btw, not the serial number. A pretty common factory setting for that era would be 370/400/430 @ 1450 but like I said, only one way to know for sure. Any number of things could have been shoved onto that ecm over the years.
Mine was set to 370 @ 1450...I reprogrammed it to 470 @ 1550 and boy did it really wake it up.
Here is a handy serial number decoder
Yes, the model number and not the serial number. I should have said that. So how did you reprogram your series 60?
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 07, 2019, 05:47:25 PM
Yes thats the controls for the webasto.
It's anybody's guess what the power is set to on your engine, only way to know for sure is to plug in to it and see. Thats the model number btw, not the serial number. A pretty common factory setting for that era would be 370/400/430 @ 1450 but like I said, only one way to know for sure. Any number of things could have been shoved onto that ecm over the years.
Mine was set to 370 @ 1450...I reprogrammed it to 470 @ 1550 and boy did it really wake it up.
Quote from: Jcparmley on April 07, 2019, 06:55:03 PMSo how did you reprogram your series 60?
I have a usb link and the DDRS and DDCT software, and a few hundred oem DDEC files. It's not as easy as just dropping a new file into the ecm though. The file has to be compatible with the internals of your engine.
Would an authorized Detroit dealer be able to tell me if an upgrade is possible?
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 07, 2019, 11:20:40 PM
I have a usb link and the DDRS and DDCT software, and a few hundred oem DDEC files. It's not as easy as just dropping a new file into the ecm though. The file has to be compatible with the internals of your engine.
Quote from: Jcparmley on April 07, 2019, 11:43:30 PM
Would an authorized Detroit dealer be able to tell me if an upgrade is possible?
Any authorized detroit shop can plug in and see whats what. The ecm will most likely have 2 or 3 power settings onboard, and it's just a click of a button to change selections. If they have to upload a new program, it can get a little costly depending on what's available from the detroit server for your serial number. Most shops will charge you an hour if they just plug in and don't have to do any software upgrades.
If you were closer to me I would be happy to swing by and plug in. Chances are pretty good I would have a high hp file that's compatible to your engine. Chances are pretty good that you are not anywhere near the output capability of the engine. MCI is fairly conservative with thier programming levels as shipped when new, and most charter companies didn't want them boosted either.
The square webasto control was my second favorite after the 3-day clock style for a driver to get the (profanity deleted) thing to fire in the morning while on charter work...
Not so much a busnut challenge, in fleet use, multiple fingers and abusive techniques... you'd think you had some of these set right... wake up and head out to start coach... no fire had happened...
A busnut coach has one set of fingers, with a vested interest, and not as likely to need the timer to avoid waking early, dressing, trudging out to the coach to set fire, back in for shower, breakfast... etc.
Probably the power disconnected to it. Do a full service right away, the PO would have disconnected it instead of fixing/servicing it.
Nobody likes to spend money on something they plan to sell...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Thanks for the info. I found the unit this morning. It looks like it needs reconditioned. It looks like the PO unplugged it. Here are some pics. Any advice?
quote author=buswarrior link=topic=33893.msg388335#msg388335 date=1554735502]
The square webasto control was my second favorite after the 3-day clock style for a driver to get the (profanity deleted) thing to fire in the morning while on charter work...
Not so much a busnut challenge, in fleet use, multiple fingers and abusive techniques... you'd think you had some of these set right... wake up and head out to start coach... no fire had happened...
A busnut coach has one set of fingers, with a vested interest, and not as likely to need the timer to avoid waking early, dressing, trudging out to the coach to set fire, back in for shower, breakfast... etc.
Probably the power disconnected to it. Do a full service right away, the PO would have disconnected it instead of fixing/servicing it.
Nobody likes to spend money on something they plan to sell...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
[/quote]
Here are more pics.
I couldn't tell from your photos whether it was the Webasto or Eiberspacher burner, but it looks like your exhaust pipe is missing. At least you have it. It can be brought back to life.
Andy (my trucker brother) may have been wrong about the fuel consumption, I have no basis of evaluation there. And I don't think he has one in his Pete so he may be biased.
Up front, the lower square bit is a timer and turns the burner on. The upper unit with the knob? I've been trying to sort that out. Now the square button on the front of your shifter console is the left hand air intake control which feeds the main HVAC return through a big round hose and a butterfly damper in a square box up in the spare tire well. The right hand air intake feeds the dash air system via a long horizontal damper below the heater/AC core which has a cable attached to it. That cable goes down into the spare tire well and connects to??? Mine is cut off.
So I *suspect* your cable goes to an actuator of some sort and is wired to the module above the timer so that when you adjust the knob it opens and closes the dashboard fresh air damper. So a separate system from the webasto.
Btw, my timer was intermittent and is not the best sort of a control for RV use anyway. You can jumper two of the 3 wires to turn it on, I forget which ones but it's posted on here on my thread having to do with that. I substituted an thermostat that I bought on ebay for about ten bucks. I think I will keep looking for one that is the right size to fit in the square dashboard hole to the right of the steering column and is unused on my bus. I removed the wart that holds the timer. Currently I'm thinking of retroffitting the dash damper with a cable control which is about $60 part.
Jim
JC, go inside to the back of your bus on the right side and pull the long access panel on the step. That gives you great access to the burner.
Jim
Ok, I will open that up and take more pics this afternoon. Do you have any pics of your controller? Thanks for the help.
[quote a Blackwood link=topic=33893.msg388341#msg388341 date=1554744439]
JC, go inside to the back of your bus on the right side and pull the long access panel on the step. That gives you great access to the burner.
Jim
[/quote]
Here's my thermostat thread:
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33790.0
On page 2 is a photo of the unknown controller.
I think this is the last Eberspaecher thread:
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33742.0
And I think this is where it starts. Photos of the Esper round timer on page 1 and photos of the burner scattered within. Should at least help you identify things and I did a teardown and cleanup of the burner as well as a wiring check. Should be enough to get you started.
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=33702.0
What ser# is your bus? Mine's 1M8PDMPA7TP048598. If yours is after that it should have the Eberspaecher. 80K btu. 13+tons of OTR A/C. Comfy!
Jim
Hi Derrik
Do you have a set of the manuals? I have been searching all over and even called MCI and they don't have them. If you do what is the number of the manuals?
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 08, 2019, 12:06:26 AM
Any authorized detroit shop can plug in and see whats what. The ecm will most likely have 2 or 3 power settings onboard, and it's just a click of a button to change selections. If they have to upload a new program, it can get a little costly depending on what's available from the detroit server for your serial number. Most shops will charge you an hour if they just plug in and don't have to do any software upgrades.
If you were closer to me I would be happy to swing by and plug in. Chances are pretty good I would have a high hp file that's compatible to your engine. Chances are pretty good that you are not anywhere near the output capability of the engine. MCI is fairly conservative with thier programming levels as shipped when new, and most charter companies didn't want them boosted either.
If you go on MCI's website you can download the manuals. They are in pdf format.
http://3dparts.mcicoach.com/Manuals.aspx
I can't find the manuals for my coach. I have a 1996 102DL3. I even called them and they told me they can't find them. Is it possible for you to send me the PDF file? I will go to your link and try again.
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 08, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
If you go on MCI's website you can download the manuals. They are in pdf format.
http://3dparts.mcicoach.com/Manuals.aspx
Thank you for the link. Instead of logging in I just went in as a guest and found the 98 year manuals. That should be close. I wonder why they couldn't direct me to that when I called? They must have been searching for the actual book rather than the PDF. Thanks Thomas
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 08, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
If you go on MCI's website you can download the manuals. They are in pdf format.
http://3dparts.mcicoach.com/Manuals.aspx
I think they don't have the '96 manuals, or what they do have isn't complete. What I downloaded there does not have complete schematics, half of the page is missing so they are really almost worthless.
Jim
So does this mean you don't need pictures of my intake relocation anymore lol? I might want some C parts if you're parting it out btw :)
I would still like to see how you routed your intake and filter because I think the DL3 has the same dumb intake above the radiator. I will let you know if I part it out. I would like to put the sides and Windows back in and sell it as a whole, but if I get no takers I will part it out.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on April 09, 2019, 06:08:11 AM
So does this mean you don't need pictures of my intake relocation anymore lol? I might want some C parts if you're parting it out btw :)
Any suggestions where I should send the webesto for servicing.
Quote from: buswarrior on April 08, 2019, 07:58:22 AM
The square webasto control was my second favorite after the 3-day clock style for a driver to get the (profanity deleted) thing to fire in the morning while on charter work...
Not so much a busnut challenge, in fleet use, multiple fingers and abusive techniques... you'd think you had some of these set right... wake up and head out to start coach... no fire had happened...
A busnut coach has one set of fingers, with a vested interest, and not as likely to need the timer to avoid waking early, dressing, trudging out to the coach to set fire, back in for shower, breakfast... etc.
Probably the power disconnected to it. Do a full service right away, the PO would have disconnected it instead of fixing/servicing it.
Nobody likes to spend money on something they plan to sell...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Is this the dampener for the fresh air? Isn't that supposed to be in the tire bay?
I was in Vegas Friday and Kino would not copy the manual any other ideas
Is your manual in a ring binder or is it glued? If it's in a ring binder you can send it to me and I will copy it and create a master PDF. Just a suggestion.
Quote from: luvrbus on May 04, 2019, 08:27:11 PM
I was in Vegas Friday and Kino would not copy the manual any other ideas
Did you try a library? They usually copy too.
Quote from: Jcparmley on May 04, 2019, 08:10:28 PM
Any suggestions where I should send the webesto for servicing.
I sent mine to Lloyd Degerald. He got it fixed quickly and sent back.
looking at the 2 pics . that looks like a booster fan inline ( sort of )
is there power running to it and if so there should be a switch some where ?
the fresh air vent on my 102c3 was in the front tire compartment and was activated by way of a air switch in the trans. shift tower .
dave
These pics are not of a stock install.
Someone's attempt to get more coach HVAC air to get past the wheelchair door?
Half @$# that rig, instead of buying the right seals, blocked off the stock air path?
interesting if it was effective?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Richard
Do you have any contact information for Lloyd? Do you remember how much it cost to rebuild?
Quote from: richard5933 on May 05, 2019, 05:00:13 AM
I sent mine to Lloyd Degerald. He got it fixed quickly and sent back.
Quote from: Jcparmley on May 05, 2019, 01:03:02 PM
Richard
Do you have any contact information for Lloyd? Do you remember how much it cost to rebuild?
His website appears to be down at the moment, but here's a snapshot from the wayback machine. I believe he's an advertiser on BCM, or was at one time. http://web.archive.org/web/20190205014627/http://lloyddegerald.com/
I paid about $500 for the work I had done including the needed parts.
Lloyd's number 501-258-8426
What do you need done to it?
On the Webasto check your local Cummins Dealers in your area or do it yourself it's not a rocket science
I'm not sure what it needs. It's disconnected at the moment so my assumption is the PO disconnected it due to it's condition. Perhaps pulling it out and bench testing it would be a good idea.
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 05, 2019, 02:30:21 PM
Lloyd's number 501-258-8426
What do you need done to it?
Those of you who have a MCI 102Dl3, do you have Jakes for your series 60? If so, do you know what model you have? I heard that not all series 60 jakes will work. Can you all enlighten me?
Your engine uses the 765A but you need to raise the floor for the install on rear MCI D never came with Jakes on all 6 cylinders so it requires some modification. I have Jakes on all 6 cylinders
765A are the old style jake heads MCI used on models with jakes on 4 cylinders. His model engine should use the 790B 3 cylinder jake heads if he wants jakes on all 6 cylinders.
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 06, 2019, 09:33:11 AM
765A are the old style jake heads MCI used on models with jakes on 4 cylinders. His model engine should use the 790B 3 cylinder jake heads if he wants jakes on all 6 cylinders.
All will work trucks used the 765a on 6 cylinders on his model series 60 some of the early MCI's with series 60's had only 3 cylinder Jakes,
Yes i i suppose he could use the 765A if he wants 3 stage jakes...select between 2, 4 ,or 6 cylinders. For 2 stage I would use the 790B to select 3 or 6 cylinders. 2 stage jakes with the 765A would be select 2 or 6, or 4 and 6 cylinders. I have the 790B on mine with 2 stage and it works very well.
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 06, 2019, 09:49:38 AM
Yes i i suppose he could use the 765A if he wants 3 stage jakes...select between 2, 4 ,or 6 cylinders. For 2 stage I would use the 790B to select 3 or 6 cylinders. 2 stage jakes with the 765A would be select 2 or 6, or 4 and 6 cylinders. I have the 790B on mine with 2 stage and it works very well.
The 790's just came along for the 2000 year model they were never used before 2000 ,I have 3 stage Jakes Detroit in KS installed them the invoice is in the bus for 8 grand installed,2 cylinder Jakes on series 60 are better 8 cylinder Jakes on a 2 stroke ::)
Quote from: luvrbus on May 06, 2019, 09:53:56 AM
2 cylinder Jakes on series 60 are better [than] 8 cylinder Jakes on a 2 stroke ::)
Thats no joke there. I had jakes on the old 8v71 (you had a hand in that one) and my previous engine 11.1 series 60 on low (2 cylinder jakes) had more stopping power than the 8v71 on full blast. Full jakes on the 12.7 almost pulls you out of your seat. Me likey.
Quote from: thomasinnv on May 06, 2019, 05:53:14 PM
Full jakes on the 12.7 almost pulls you out of your seat.
If your standing at the back, they will cause you to run or fall forward until you grab on something...
Don't ask me how I know :P :-[