I had always understood that there was reciprocity of driver's licenses between Canada and other countries, including the USA. A recent incident in Georgia has brought to light the truth - there is no reciprocity based on a driver's license alone. A young Canadian woman was recently arrested and jailed because she was driving with a Canadian license that was deemed invalid by the arresting officer. It turns out that requirements vary by state, and in many if not most states a Canadian license is only valid if accompanied by a passport or other proof of citizenship, and in some states (Florida) require an International Driving Permit in addition to a Canadian driver's license and a passport. It has to be the physical passport, in the case in Georgia the young woman had both a digital Nexus card (issued jointly by US Customs and Border Protection and Canada Border Services Agency) and a digital copy of her Canadian Passport with her at the time of her arrest. To be clear, she was stopped for speeding on the Interstate, but she was arrested for driving with an Ontario license. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-woman-arrested-jailed-in-u-s-for-driving-with-a-canadian-licence-1.4648561 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-woman-arrested-jailed-in-u-s-for-driving-with-a-canadian-licence-1.4648561)
I seen that yesterday on the news, I was disappointed.
The official obviously did not know their own State laws. In my opinion the speed citation just should have been issued. Then let the assigned course of action take place as listed on ticket.
To consider the area as a speed trap, well it sure sounds as if it was and more. It seems to me certain actions as this could be clarified correctly over the radio with the dispatcher in position.
Good day
Floyd
It's not just for Canadians here if your state like AZ doesn't comply with the new federal BS I have to carry a passport for federal ID,I cannot buy a friggin air line ticket without a passport,if a federal agency stops me I am screwed without my passport for ID
Well, I didn't really feel sorry for her. She was doing 87 mph in a 65 :o
And she should have had her real passport with her, not just a copy on her phone. Also, she should have had a Georgia DL, because she was there long term as a student.
My son was in Savannah as an intern for Gulfstream for a year. He had to get a Georgia DL within 30 days of being there, and carry his passport with him at all times as a requirement of his visa.
I realize the cop didn't know what she was doing, but the onus is on the visitor to go by the local rules.
JC
Got to agree with JC and she started out lying to the officer and tell him she was from Tenn. Not Canada as a student. Driving a vehical with Canadian plates probably and a Canadian DL
Sounds a little like a Drama Queen wanting to get known on Snap Chat or whatever. ;D
The new laws here have given the states a new source of revenue for sure, she did break the law you are going to jail in about any state in the US when you exceed 20 MPH over the posted speed limit American or Canadian.LOL Dave she will probably be on Youtube with the ads and all
Quote from: lostagain on May 09, 2018, 06:52:02 AM
Well, I didn't really feel sorry for her. She was doing 87 mph in a 65 :o
And she should have had her real passport with her, not just a copy on her phone. Also, she should have had a Georgia DL, because she was there long term as a student.
My son was in Savannah as an intern for Gulfstream for a year. He had to get a Georgia DL within 30 days of being there, and carry his passport with him at all times as a requirement of his visa.
I realize the cop didn't know what she was doing, but the onus is on the visitor to go by the local rules.
JC
it was 87 in a 70.
Georgia has a thing called Super speeder. They very often fudge the 2 mph to add the designation to the ticket, it tacks on an extra $200.00....
Georgia's 'Super Speeder Law' defines a Super Speeder as a driver convicted of speeding at 75 mph or more on a two-lane road or at 85 mph and above on any road or highway in the State of Georgia.
In addition to the fines and fees paid to the jurisdiction where the speeding offense took place, a $200 Super Speeder state fee is to be paid by the convicted driver. Failure to pay the Super Speeder fee within 120 days of official notice will result in the suspension of the offender's license or driving privileges. Payment of a $50 reinstatement fee in addition to the $200 Super Speeder fee will then be required to reinstate their license or driving privileges.
2 "more" mph is always suspect.... A super speeder ticket in Georgia can cost well over $1000.
And one would be foolish not to contest it... if it was 15 mph over the bracket...no question about it's validity, but 2 mph, I have my doubts.
https://dds.georgia.gov/reinstatement-faqs-super-speeder (https://dds.georgia.gov/reinstatement-faqs-super-speeder)
Posted this not to debate the incident, but to let other Canadians know that the rules might not be what you thought they were. I bet not 1% of the thousands of Canadians who spend part of the winter in Florida know that since 2013 Florida has required the International Driving Permit. The other side of this is the lady was definitely in the wrong for speeding, possibly should have had a Tennessee driver's license (problematic as Tennessee only issues licenses to US citizens or Permanent Residents, possibly not to F-visa holders, since that is a temporary visa), but she was apparently illegally denied access to the Canadian Consulate. At the end of the day her arrest has been expunged, she will probably get her bail and other fees back, and now we know more than we did about driving in the US.
Quote from: bevans6 on May 09, 2018, 07:14:08 AM
Posted this not to debate the incident, but to let other Canadians know that the rules might not be what you thought they were. I bet not 1% of the thousands of Canadians who spend part of the winter in Florida know that since 2013 Florida has required the International Driving Permit. The other side of this is the lady was definitely in the wrong for speeding, possibly should have had a Tennessee driver's license (problematic as Tennessee only issues licenses to US citizens or Permanent Residents, possibly not to F-visa holders, since that is a temporary visa), but she was apparently illegally denied access to the Canadian Consulate. At the end of the day her arrest has been expunged, she will probably get her bail and other fees back, and now we know more than we did about driving in the US.
i read it differently. she said she lived in Tennessee. That was probably true. it's where she slept. The question should have been are you a US citizen.
NOTE: A new law requiring foreign visitors to have international driving permits to drive in Florida will not be enforced because it violates an international treaty...
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article1947357.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/article1947357.html)
AAA applauds this swift action by the Florida Legislature and Governor Rick Scott repealing the 2012 law that required an International Driving Permit for all foreign drivers," said Kevin Bakewell, chief public affairs officer for AAA."This repeal illustrates the state's commitment to remaining a top US destination for international tourists, including our Canadian neighbors, many of whom call Florida their winter home."
"Effective immediately, Canadians in Florida can go back to doing what they have always been able to do – drive with peace of mind in the Sunshine State using their provincial driver's license,"
https://www.flgov.com/2013/04/02/governor-scott-signs-international-drivers-license-bill-at-florida-chamber-of-commerces-international-days/ (https://www.flgov.com/2013/04/02/governor-scott-signs-international-drivers-license-bill-at-florida-chamber-of-commerces-international-days/)
TO ME THIS JUST ILLUSTRATES HOW "FACELESS"(BRAINLESS?) BEAUREAUCRATS make up their own rules. They are un-elected, lazy, overpaid and underworked(ask me how I REALLY feel). Kudos to the governor to take action. I suspect that the Florida economy derives significant benefit from Canadian "snowbirds". I know that businesses in Washington state close to the border suffer when the Canadian dollar "tanks".
The news I seen yesterday didnt mention anything regarding the person being a resident in Tennessee. For sure it did not say the person said they were a temporary resident, to the Officer.
This I mean in student or other non-resident status. So from my limited knowledge most States here in the good old North America each have a set of guidelines, and likely a bit newer than others.
So in my up standing arguments, I plead duped by fake news and or my case not enough home work in this discussion.
So in closing, I still lean heavy on the issue of the speed ticket and its compliance.
Good day
Floyd
Comrade, let me see your identity card...?
Is this the USA, or the USSR?
You've been hoodwinked, just as they were...
Passports are for borders, driver's licences are for speeding infractions.
Many long standing international treaties between your government and ours has been violated by the local cop.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on May 09, 2018, 09:04:37 AM
Comrade, let me see your identity card...?
Is this the USA, or the USSR?
You've been hoodwinked, just as they were...
Passports are for borders, driver's licences are for speeding infractions.
Many long standing international treaties between your government and ours has been violated by the local cop.
Happy coaching!
I don't like it but that is the way it is now ,my new AZ drivers licenses has it written on the front "Not For Federal Identification" meaning no Federal officer will recognize it as a ID. I doubt I could get into a Federal Court house with mine. Now instead of the states issuing the drivers license on the spot that is gone you get a piece of paper and your new license shows up in 2 weeks and it's not just AZ either
Buswarrior
At the risk of chasing this thread into the gutter I'll say it anyway. You guys south of 49 have lost your compass. I'm inclined to dismiss this particular incident as one nitwit student driving too fast in the deep south and pissing off a low brow cop. That's probably more or less exactly what happened but this is a symptom of a deeper problem. You guys are degenerating into a police state. It took a long time to get where you are and it will take a long time to get back but so far I see no evidence that you are turning the ship around.
Well said Bob that is happening here for sure all in the name of keeping us safe what BS,the Real ID Act is way of keeping track of citizens that is all it's for
Quote from: luvrbus on May 09, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
Well said Bob that is happening here for sure all in the name of keeping us safe what BS,the Real ID Act is way of keeping track of citizens that is all it's for
In December 2004, President George W. Bush signed into law the National Intelligence Reform Act of 2004
The USA PATRIOT Act is an Act of Congress that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. With its ten-letter abbreviation (USA PATRIOT) expanded, the full title is "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001
Starting to see a pattern here ?
I am going to leave this alone it's headed down the political trail, the Real Id Act is BS though IMO
You should have the waze app for police info on busy roads. Shows location of police, accidents, vehicles sitting along the road, potholes, animals on road, etc. All reported by other drivers. If the item announced isn't still there, you can indicate it and it will go away. Priceless app.
If you're not speeding, you shouldn't be worried about where the police is... And you shouldn't be on your phone anyway...
JC
[quote author=eagle19952 link=topic=33041.msg375732#msg375732 date=1525875637
i read it differently. she said she lived in Tennessee. That was probably true. it's where she slept. The question should have been are you a US citizen. Quote]
Funny Don you bring that up because when we were traveling across the country last year in our Bus. We like everyone else were stopped by the Federal Officers at the check point in Texass.
They came up to the window and asked "were all people in the vehical AMERICANS" I said yes and off we went no problems. We noticed all kinds of heat sensors and cameras trained on us as we came in to the CP.
As I was driving i looked at the wife and asked shouldn't they have said in everyone in the vehical a US CITIZEN?. Thought that was strange.
Could have been South American's?
Don't have this problem in Australia and New Zealand
We let anyone drive here even Canadians ;D
QuotePassports are for borders, driver's licences are for speeding infractions.
Too simplistic. You might be applying domestic law applying to citizens to non-citizens - because in most countries, aliens are required to carry their passport at all times and produce it on demand. Perhaps there is a treaty excluding Canadians but ????
Being government, slow and always behind, these formal IDs are basically obsolete in today's information society. They don't need any of that crap to find you. If you own a cell phone, finding your general whereabouts is kids play. If you have a cell phone, you likely are being tracked by the GPS in the phone which is sending Google all the details. You can disable it but it's down in the bowels of the settings maze. If you are using a computer to read this, the tracking is a click away for the feds. They can feed all this data and come up with a profile and more detailed account of you than you can remember.
We live in a big data world now, meaning trillions of data points about you are stored in the cloud by some organization, public or private. A data don't die easy nor have any memory lapses. Deep in that spinning data is everything as fresh as it was captured years ago. It is troubling times for all humans on Earth.
If youre not speeding, you dont need to worry about where the police is...... un huh. you never accidently got over limit... gives verbal warnings, does not require watching phone or gps. very useful for warning of semi at side of road around curve, allowing you to move to lh lane, or traffic congestion, accidents, how far traffic is slowed down or for how great a distance. Free app.
Thanks I will try it.
JC
From the local newscast it was made to imply that proof of who she was was not replied upon by her photo ID drivers license alone. I t was requested that she produce an additional piece of photo id to prove she was who she actually claimed to be. I would assume there was some animosity between the arresting officer and the young woman with both parties "fluffing their feathers" a little. Kinda like ... you can't do that ... just you watch me. The validity of a Canadian drivers license was not the issue.
So tempers flared and nobody got killed. And it turned out nice again...
Quote from: Jim Eh. on May 10, 2018, 06:08:04 PM
From the local newscast it was made to imply that proof of who she was was not replied upon by her photo ID drivers license alone. It was requested that she produce an additional piece of photo id to prove she was who she actually claimed to be. I would assume there was some animosity between the arresting officer and the young woman with both parties "fluffing their feathers" a little. Kinda like ... you can't do that ... just you watch me. The validity of a Canadian drivers license was not the issue.
So tempers flared and nobody got killed. And it turned out nice again...
this assumes no photo on a provincial drivers license ?
no LEO ever asked me for a second photo...
but..I did once have a female officer call for a male officer to over see a stop... :)
equal rights and all that... 8)
From a Canadian:
When in Rome....
I found a detailed article (sorry, coupla days ago and don't have link at hand); She was speeding. As I understand it, all out of state drivers are taken to station when facing fines, not just us dam furriners'. The documents she provided we not quite up to scratch (electronic copies, not originals). From what I read she was not abused or otherwise maltreated. The arrest, pictures, and prints are over the top, since if a senior official had not intervened, the young woman would likely be barred from returning to the US in the future.
It is your country. Despite a long, friendly and mutually prosperous relationship, Canadians are not US Citizens and we must abide by your rules for foreign nationals.
/rant
Having said that, I have observed a rise in xenophobia over the decades and even as a middle-aged WASP who would be very low on the profiling scales, I am not interested in enduring the ridiculous process we face trying to cross the border. The illusion of security being sold to the US citizens by your federal government (regardless of party in power) make a routine entry into the US very irritating.
You can end up on some secret list for no discernible reason, and be subject to enhanced screening. Once this occurs, you will be forced through this EVERY TIME even if after 10 pull-asides nothing is ever found. This very post may be used against me without my knowledge if/when I travel to or through the US.
Asking US citizens - How would you like it if the officers of a foreign nation were given the authority to operate on US soil, and detain you against your will if they didn't like your answers?
I am all for pre-screening at point of departure (ie airport) before you fly to your destination, if you are going to be denied entry. This should not empower a foreign officer to detain me if I choose to cancel my trip because I don't like their attitude, and have no desire to answer their questions.
There is so much in the US I want see and places I want to visit, and I know many good and great Americans, but your very own border policies have become the equivalent of a "KEEP OUT!" sign on the lawn.
/rant
Cheers
Ken
LOL I get the passport idea when visiting other countries it's the law
but as a American carrying a passport for ID with a valid drivers licenses is BS in this country.It is almost like we have countries 2 in 1 state now this $#!% is only get worse too before long we will need 2 plates federal and state on a vehicle to travel across this great land
I've been going back and forth across the border for 50 years many times a year for pleasure and for work. Never had a problem. You just have to have your documents in order, answer the questions, be polite, and behave properly.
JC
Quote from: luvrbus on May 11, 2018, 05:31:03 AM
LOL I get the passport idea when visiting other countries it's the law
but as a American carrying a passport for ID with a valid drivers licenses is BS in this country.It is almost like we have countries 2 in 1 state now this $#!% is only get worse too before long we will need 2 plates federal and state on a vehicle to travel across this great land
My understanding is that a driver's license is valid for driving whether or not the issuing state has signed onto the Real ID program. However, if you have a license from a state not in the Real ID program (or a non-Real ID from a participating state) you'll need to provide additional documents to board a plane or enter a Federal courthouse, etc. Thanks to Sennsenbrenner for this mess.
Quote from: lostagain on May 11, 2018, 06:56:30 AM
I've been going back and forth across the border for 50 years many times a year for pleasure and for work. Never had a problem. You just have to have your documents in order, answer the questions, be polite, and behave properly.
JC
Sorry JC but its not that simple. Ken has it right. I'm glad it has worked for you but its OK right up until its not and then its bloody awful. And there doesn't have to be a reason for it to turn awful. BTDT
We're really happy that we did a lot of US travel 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Its a big world and if we never drive in the US again we'll survive quite nicely. I'm not saying that we won't drive in the US again, just that its not a priority and we do actively avoid entering the US.
The New federal requirements don't take effect until October 1, 2020. The Real-ID until then is your states Drivers license. Off the HLS site.
Quote from: kjurkic on May 10, 2018, 08:24:40 PM
From a Canadian:
When in Rome....
I found a detailed article (sorry, coupla days ago and don't have link at hand); She was speeding. As I understand it, all out of state drivers are taken to station when facing fines, not just us dam furriners'.
Cheers
Ken
Wrong. I have (ok my wife) got a super speeder in Georgia driving an Alabama plated car with an Alaska drivers license.
There was no trip to the pokey.
The wallet was relieved of over $1500.00
An attorney was involved.
Quote from: eagle19952 on May 11, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
Wrong. I have (ok my wife) got a super speeder in Georgia driving an Alabama plated car with an Alaska drivers license.
There was no trip to the pokey.
The wallet was relieved of over $1500.00
An attorney was involved.
Zoinkers! :o