Other driver crossed center line. Didn't make it. Thank God we're both ok.
Richard (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170930/af3e406733810bcef6c5171c8bfebeab.jpg)
1964 PD4106-2412
WHAT? Is that your bus and you were driving and OK? Thank god. Since you posted you must be somewhat alright, care to share the details?
Oh my,
If you had been in a stick and staple you would not have been alright. Wow, our worst nightmare.
David
Gad you guys are OK, sorry about the other driver. Nice to drive pretty much a tank.
We're both fine physically. My heart is broken.
1964 PD4106-2412
Glad you are ok. Tough situation....
As bad as that is, at least you're ok. Equipment can be repaired or replaced. But people cannot!!
`Glad to hear you are both OK and sorry to hear about the other driver. I often wondered how my bus would fair in a collision. .As the owner of the same bus(PD4106) I would be interested in hearing some additional particulars about the collision ,such as do you have seat belts.etc. If you don't want to talk about it I completely understand.
Regards
Fred
Richard,
I found the thread where you record the work you did to the coach. Yes, it is really sad to have this happen to the coach but that stuff can be replaced. Consider you both escaped without any injury, God is looking over you.
I've missed that bullet twice in my bus-- both times the opposite driver was in my lane with me doing at least 60mph. And on roads with no shoulder for a bus. Both times I told myself I am a lot bigger than you and I have one Hell of a shock absorbing front bumper on my RTS bus. I played chicken, won, and stayed out of the ditch and injuries to us and the bus.
--Geoff
Yes, that is a tragedy. That could have been much worse for you. Do you have transportation? Is there anything that one of us might be able to do to facilitate some help?
Davy
We were given a lift by the state trooper to the airport in Des Moines. Now in a rental car till Monday. We're thinking of getting a UHaul then to retrieve what we can from the bus, especially stuff we will need in our next bus. Then it's back to Milwaukee.
Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and prayers.
I'll post more information when my head is on straight later.
Richard
1964 PD4106-2412
Wow! Glad you are both ok. Unfortunately you won't get anything of significance for repairs. They'll say " almost 60 year old bus, worth nothing in their books so totaled. Sorry for your lost. Probably can use some items on next conversion, if accident didn't turn you against them. Too bad other driver lost his life due to error.
Richard,
So glad you all are OK. As others have already said, if you had been driving an RV, you probably would not have made it. You can get another bus.
TOM
Richard,
I'm sorry you have to go through this, and even more sorry you will live with this for the rest of your life. I hope you can get through this ok.
craig
I'm glad you weren't hurt. Will the insurance company keep all the RV components that were added to the bus if they total the bus? If you could find temporary storage you might be better off buying it back to remove anything that is still good.
I would be out of the bus business if this happened to me. I don't know that I could even buy just a decent shell for what my bus is insured for. You can get 102DL3 buses with Series 60 and B500 pretty cheap these days, but mechanical repairs and tires would probably cost close to $15,000.
Oh my stars. Saying prayers for you and the family....oh man. This is crazy
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Richard was this crash in Cedar Rapids? Two people are listed as deceased in that crash?
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http://whotv.com/2017/09/30/jefferson-county-man-killed-in-head-on-collision-with-rv/ (http://whotv.com/2017/09/30/jefferson-county-man-killed-in-head-on-collision-with-rv/)
Here is the report
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 30, 2017, 02:49:13 PM
Wow! Glad you are both ok. Unfortunately you won't get anything of significance for repairs. They'll say " almost 60 year old bus, worth nothing in their books so totaled. Sorry for your lost. Probably can use some items on next conversion, if accident didn't turn you against them. Too bad other driver lost his life due to error.
The other drivers insurance should cover fixing the bus.
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Quote from: Zephod on October 01, 2017, 05:56:32 AM
The other drivers insurance should cover fixing the bus.
No matter whose insurance pays the bus would probably be considered totaled as the insurance company would find the repair costs to be more than they consider the bus to be worth. Where would you find a repair shop with the parts and expertise to repair a 60 year old bus? There is a company called Coachcrafters in Orlando that specializes in collision repair to buses. They used to have another facility here in Minnesota that I visited once. They were doing a front end repair on a transit bus that was a $250,000 job. The bus was almost new so it was worth spending $250,000.
My parents were in a four car accident where one of the drivers was considered 100% at fault. His insurance totaled my parent's car instead of repairing it. My parents got fair market value for the car.
Quote from: belfert on October 01, 2017, 06:35:45 AM
No matter whose insurance pays the bus would probably be considered totaled as the insurance company would find the repair costs to be more than they consider the bus to be worth. Where would you find a repair shop with the parts and expertise to repair a 60 year old bus? There is a company called Coachcrafters in Orlando that specializes in collision repair to buses. They used to have another facility here in Minnesota that I visited once. They were doing a front end repair on a transit bus that was a $250,000 job. The bus was almost new so it was worth spending $250,000.
My parents were in a four car accident where one of the drivers was considered 100% at fault. His insurance totaled my parent's car instead of repairing it. My parents got fair market value for the car.
But he's entitled to have it put back as it was. Fair market value is just a scam insurers like to pull.
Quote from: Zephod on October 01, 2017, 06:40:16 AM
But he's entitled to have it put back as it was. Fair market value is just a scam insurers like to pull.
Can tell you ain't ever dealt with a insurance company with this sort of thing. Had a Ranch Truck ran into (parked) and Allstate (azzhole that ran into me ins. co.) offered me X dollars. Went round and round for months. My lawyer said better take what they offer as they have bigger pockets than you. They live for lawsuits and dragging things out.
Quote from: muldoonman on October 01, 2017, 07:05:35 AM
Can tell you ain't ever dealt with a insurance company with this sort of thing. Had a Ranch Truck ran into (parked) and Allstate (azzhole that ran into me ins. co.) offered me X dollars. Went round and round for months. My lawyer said better take what they offer as they have bigger pockets than you. They live for lawsuits and dragging things out.
Sounds like you need a refund from that lawyer.
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Quote from: Zephod on October 01, 2017, 07:15:12 AM
Sounds like you need a refund from that lawyer.
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Didn't charge me. Just free sound advice.
No insurance company is going to spend more than a vehicle is worth on repairs. It doesn't matter who is at fault. People would be staging accidents all the time to get insurance payouts if that was the case and insurance would cost a whole lot more. Yes, it sucks if you have a nicely maintained older vehicle and you don't want to buy a different used car that may have been abused. Sure, you can hire a lawyer to try to fight the insurance company, but the insurance companies have a lot more lawyers than you do.
I feel for Richard as it sucks having a nice bus and then having it totaled by no fault of his own. At least nobody in the bus was hurt.
We both woke this morning still in a daze trying to get our head wrapped around all this. I've been up a lot last night running this through my head trying to see what could have been done differently. I'll be posting with updates to how the bus held up, what happened, etc. Right now we're both still amazed we walked away with nothing more serious than a banged knuckle - probably from my laying on the horn and white knuckling the steering wheel.
If it seems that I'm too occupied with details at this point, it's because it helps me process what happened. I have not fully left the hyperdrive mode from yesterday, and when I do I'm sure it will be even more difficult to write about what happened so I'm doing it now.
We do have a dashcam video which shows the scene up to the point of impact. If someone can tell me how, I'll post it or link to it. I think that others should see just how quickly this whole thing unfolded (4 sec).
To answer the insurance question is a big unknown. We have a declared value policy so if our insurance ends up paying that's the most we'd get. We set the value when we first bought it in May, but at this point it would only cover half of what we have invested. My plan was to have an appraisal done when I buttoned up the last of the improvements for the year. If the other driver had insurance (we still don't know - indications are he did but we don't know for certain) then we will push them to pay the appraised value of how it sat just prior to the accident. The person we bought from runs a charter company and is going to put us in touch with an appraiser.
If the other driver had coverage then we should do much better, but I still don't think we'll fully recover our investment. The minimum coverage in Iowa is only $15,000, which would only barely cover our initial purchase price. Our coverage would kick in after, but only to the declared value amount. Oy.
We still don't know what our next steps will be. We feel like we've lost a friend, as the bus has occupied every waking moment since we brought it home in the spring. We'd like to replace it, but with what is a difficult question that we'll be having to deal with in the coming weeks. How much insurance helps will be a big deciding factor. After seeing the damage to a coach as solid as ours, I can't image going to a S&S. Anything not as strong as a 4106 is out of the question.
I did a lot of thinking last night about what I could have done differently. I questioned whether I could have braked harder, but the shoulder was soft with a ditch/ravine beyond it. I didn't want to lose control by locking the wheels and then heading into the ravine.
I thought that I should have been able to keep in a straight line after impact. But in reality the steering linkage was torn away on impact and I was holding a useless steering wheel after that.
The bus seemed to take too long to come to a stop after impact. Did I not brake hard enough? Apparently the air system was shredded on impact and we had no brakes anyhow. I could have pulled the handbrake, but I was focused on steering us towards the flattest part of the ravine and away from the house. I didn't know the steering wheel was not connected to anything.
The impact did a lot of damage to the corner of the bus. Had that been the only damage it might be repairable. But, when we got to the uphill side of the ravine the nose of the bus caught the earth and pulled the front of the bus down. the nose has dropped a few inches with a crease across the roof from driver's window to entry door. The side of the bus looks like an aluminum can which has been twisted/crushed with ripples all the way down. There are rivets popped out that we can see. I'm sure there are many we can't. It's unlikely that the bus can be repaired without exceeding value, and even if it could I would never feel safe driving it again.
I've been a 'belt and suspenders' kind of person for a long time. Good thing, as all the safety precautions seemed to have helped hold things together. The newly mounted generator stayed put, the black tank held solid, the batteries stayed under their straps, and all the interior items stayed put other than some paperwork and lightweight cups, etc. The new seat belts kept us in our seats, and I was able to do a normal shutdown procedure from the driver's seat - mostly on autopilot at that point since I don't remember it. We had to exit from the sliding Peninsula window since we could not open the door from the inside. I wanted us away in case of fire, but the fuel and electrical systems appear to have remained intact.
If you have specific questions, please ask. I'll try to post more as I think of things that might be helpful to others.
Richard
Oh Richard I'm just so sorry...this is a lot to handle in a short time. Keep talking it through, it will help you. I know this goes without saying but you absolutely cannot blame yourself. He made a fatal error and you couldn't have done anything beyond what you did without endangering your life or your wife. I'm so so sorry.
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on October 01, 2017, 07:41:15 AM
Oh Richard I'm just so sorry...this is a lot to handle in a short time. Keep talking it through, it will help you. I know this goes without saying but you absolutely cannot blame yourself. He made a fatal error and you couldn't have done anything beyond what you did without endangering your life or your wife. I'm so so sorry.
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It is forever in your mind if some one is killed in a accident where you are at fault or not,it happen to me 45 years ago when a young man came around a car riding a motorcycle and hit me head on that picture in my mind is as clear to day as it was 45 years ago
Wow!!! The fact that a Honda Civic can do this kind of damage to one of these things doesn't exactly leave one with the warm fuzzes does it ??
Thankfully you're all OK!
As others have said, equipment can be replaced.
Distracted drivers are something that we are going to have to live with and anticipate. That ship has sailed and ain't returning. Everybody has laws concerning it but they are simply ignored.
I have attended and taught many defensive courses in my life. I try to attend another every couple of years. Amazing how many things have changed when most of us got our licenses in the middle of the last century! Because of airbags, the position of the hands on the steering wheel is but one example.
We've become a society that must take every action to protect ourselves and others from insanity. AARP teaches courses for little or no charge in most places. Many are too young to learn, most of us are not too old.
Richard,
Stuff can be replaced, human life can't. :( That moment of distraction or whatever cost the other driver his life.
When talking with the insurance company, make sure they know you may be interested in purchasing your now "scrap value" motorhome. That cost of obtaining the bus itself may be much less than the worth all the items that you can remove and re-use, or sell to others of us busnuts.
Thankful that you are OK. Make sure to get medically checked out, as some neck/back injuries don't manifest until a couple of days later.
Steve T
I can tell you a thing or two about distracted drivers. I drive a schoolbus and I see distracted drivers every day. Always on their cellphones instead of driving. My copilot (I have an aide who is also a driver) asked me if my phone was ringing. I said it was but as I was driving I was just ignoring it. I can't understand people that can't ignore their darned phones and thus can't concentrate on driving. I've had policemen wandering into my lane because of their damned cellphone addiction.
I've had to swerve (not an easy task) a 16 ton schoolbus to avoid a turkey that pulled out of the turn lane without looking. He braked and he was very lucky there was nothing in the lane beside me in that I was able to swerve. If I hadn't been then I'm pretty sure he would have been dead.
I am normally on the road between 5:40am and 8:45am and between 1:30pm and 5pm. I notice the worst driving is after dawn has broken (coincidentally when people think they can see well enough to do other things) and after 4pm when people are trying to rush home to watch Dallas on TV or eat their TV dinner.
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Quote from: muldoonman on October 01, 2017, 07:17:41 AM
Didn't charge me. Just free sound advice.
You got exactly what you paid for then.
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Quote from: bigred on October 01, 2017, 08:29:18 AM
Wow!!! The fact that a Honda Civic can do this kind of damage to one of these things doesn't exactly leave one with the warm fuzzes does it ??
Yea and that is toughest spot on a GM with all the steel in that location
Quote from: Zephod on October 01, 2017, 09:38:04 AM
You got exactly what you paid for then.
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you really have no clue.
Quote from: luvrbus on October 01, 2017, 09:46:23 AM
Yea and that is toughest spot on a GM with all the steel in that location
I've been very unimpressed by vehicle safety. Back in Britain about 30 years ago, I lost braking traction on a poorly maintained road (the brakes were on but the road surface came off) and tapped a Subaru very lightly on the driver side rear bumper. Both the passenger door and the driver door on the drivers side were both jammed solidly. The driver who was the only occupant had to slide over to the passenger side to exit. Now if that had been a bad crash with vehicles catching fire...
I've seen schoolbusses after they've been hit by vehicles too. Front and rear impacts they're usually able to shrug off and keep going. Where they fare very badly is in side impacts.
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Richard, sad to hear of your misfortune.
The more you talk about it, the sooner you will be able to resolve the emotions.
You said that you have it insured for declared value - that is likely what it will be. However, it wouldn't hurt to have as much documentation as you get your hands on to show what you have invested in it & that it is/was in excellent mechanical condition -- NOT -- a old worn out, used up vehicle.
I wish you well in moving forward. Hope you like your next RV even better!
Richard,
Your reactions in seconds leading up to the impact were absolutely correct!
As a truck driver with 35+ years of seat time and much more than a million miles working for Fortune 500 companies, from the hundreds of safety meetings I attended, I never heard what I am going to tell you now. I could only tell this to my wife, but since I am retired I can talk about this now.
Several times I had close calls which could have resulted in head on collisions. I then decided if another driver was leading up to a head on collision with me in my lane or other cars around me were spinning out of control, I would not take evasive action; I would simply stay in my lane and safely brake. There are reasons for this decision. First, I did not want to steer into a ditch or cause other collisions by trying to avoid a head on collision; I would be in a ditch and/or my employer would be liable for other damage I caused to other vehicles while the driver who would have caused a head on collision would simply drive away. Evasive action could have cause a jackknife or flipped over my tractor trailer and spilled my cargo. Trucks have been know to flip crushing cars nearby.
Ten years ago while driving into Los Angeles on the freeway, as the result of a driver not paying attention, cars started spinning around me out of control; I hit one of the cars who passed sideways directly in front, but I stayed in my lane and did not take evasive action. Most of the car drivers were taken away in ambulances. Long story short; I was not cited for the accident by the CHP and my employer (who was self insured) was not found liable. My front bumper was pushed into the front tire and I had a bruise from the seat belt. On the scene I completed a detailed accident report, took many photos and found witnesses as we were trained to do. The front bumper was pulled away from the tire and I finished my day.
So Richard, do not wrack your brain thinking of what you could have done differently to prevent the accident. The unfortunate person, his family, and you are forever affected by what has happened, but I have not read anything you could have done differently.
Thank you for sharing your experience; I am sorry this accident has happened to you.
Mike
QuoteGod is looking over you.
But not the other driver eh??
Quote from: eagle19952 on October 01, 2017, 09:48:00 AM
you really have no clue.
You're right Don. Some people have a point but it usually on top of they're noggin..
Dash cam video uploaded to You Tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeQuNudINSQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeQuNudINSQ)
Last few seconds of video look like the bus is rolling over. It's not. As the nose hit the dirt on the uphill side of the ravine, it pulled the entire front down a couple of inches which caused the windshields to fly out and around. The dash cam was mounted on the upper left corner of the driver's side windshield, and what looks like the bus rolling is actually the camera flying out and rolling under the bus.
Richard
Wow, glad you are all right. Thank goodness for that study bus. Betcha texting or phone got him.
Quote from: muldoonman on October 01, 2017, 01:09:39 PM
Wow, glad you are all right. Thank goodness for that study bus. Betcha texting or phone got him.
State Trooper thought he worked at a local plant and was coming home from a 3rd shift job, likely fell asleep while driving. No way to know for certain.
Richard
Richard I'm glad you're ok. It's very heart breaking about your RV though, these are much more than machines, with the love and attention we put into them. It did its duty to protect you :-(. That's what it was designed to do.
I just moved to southern Wisconsin btw so we're neighbors!
Like I said earlier, I've been in the situation twice now, but the oncoming drivers veered off at the last second. I guess your horn woke him up because he served at the last second. Good luck to you, Richard.
--Geoff
Quote from: Tony LEE on October 01, 2017, 12:30:47 PM
But not the other driver eh??
sounds like an @$# umption.
Wow Richard!
I'm getting some dash cameras.
I too have seen some things that got my attention, but nothing like that!
Had you not been your coach, there would probably have been more fatalities.
I decided a long time ago that in my coach, I am not taking radical evasive action unless the other guy is much bigger.
I have tried to instill in my girls and Frankie that animals that run into your path may be best avoided by continuing straight ahead while braking. It just may not be their day. I have one daughter 46 years old that has wrecked virtually every vehicle she has ever driven by freaking out over dogs and inattention. Frankie no longer drives. I live in South Dakota and avoid driving at night because deer commit suicide constantly here. I have had several real scares. I notice since the demise of "sealed beams" whatever the new lights for the last 20 or so years use do not show eyes like the older vehicles did.
One can only do so much. On the way back from having my coach painted, the first year I had it, I saw a large buck running at me from the side in Yankton, in town! He hit me in the paint behind the left toll window. He slid down and left hair on the front of each door but got up and ran away, leaving me with about a 10" dent in my new paint.
I'm with the others that have figured out what their actions will be.
I am alive because I figured that out in helicopters nearly 50 years ago. When the feared finally happened, I did just what I had gone over in my mind so many times.
Everyone should have a dash camera. The best is the multiple camera system that can give you a birds eye 360 view-pretty slick.
I have a dash cam in my car. Today it recorded several near head ons as people overtook a moped across double yellow lines. I just hung back when I got close and waited for a genuine opportunity.
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Funny thing about surprises, they surprise you - and when you are surprised, you may not act/ react like you thought you would.
A little old blue haired lady started to come over in my lane, During my surprised reaction, I forgot how wide my coach is and I hit the curb. :-[
When it is something with just my vehicle, I tend to do the right thing - - if other vehicles are involved, I sometimes make less than good decisions. . . :-\
Talking about these incidences will definitely help others be better prepared.
I bought a dash camera after an incident that could have been very bad. I was creeping up to a stop sign to see oncoming traffic past an obstruction when a motorcyclist changed lanes so close in front that I couldn't see him over the dash. I noticed that he wasn't beside me so . . . . I figure I would have been blamed for following too close if there wasn't video to show what really happened.
Quote from: richard5933 on October 01, 2017, 01:05:07 PMDash cam video uploaded to You Tube
...
Oh, Richard, that is so scary. I add my sympathies and best wishes for you. Wishing you peace and comfort.
Dash cams are a must and this whole sad situation really should be the impetus for all of us investing in them just to be clear to law enforcement as to what really happened. Here's what happened to my wife just the other day while driving the coach. She had to slam on the brakes to keep from hitting this silly lady:
https://youtu.be/gG9VrcLHde8
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on October 01, 2017, 07:14:41 PM
Dash cams are a must and this whole sad situation really should be the impetus for all of us investing in them just to be clear to law enforcement as to what really happened. Here's what happened to my wife just the other day while driving the coach. She had to slam on the brakes to keep from hitting this silly lady:
https://youtu.be/gG9VrcLHde8
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Now that is a situation I see all too often. Rather than hang back and use the free space behind me, people overtake and turn in front of me. This even happens on city roads!
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Looks to me like dash cams could work against you too ,we have to many damn cameras in our life now any place you go you are on camera.
Me I would have never posted the recording crooked lawyers love that stuff it gives them months to study and twist things around even if is clearly not you fault
Dash cams show what happened. If you always do the right thing, you have nothing to fear.
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Quote from: Zephod on October 02, 2017, 06:27:25 AM
Dash cams show what happened. If you always do the right thing, you have nothing to fear.
As mentioned before, you really have no clue, do you?
It really makes no difference to lawyers they advertise on TV they can get you money even if the wreck was your fault it's not right but that is the way it is nowadays in our flawed but good system.
You don't have any idea what lawyers can do,I was involved in a suit where I was doing work on a hiway it was barricaded as to the specs a woman hit a barrier and was injured and sued me,the flasher provider and the state it was proven it was her fault and 12 jurors still awarded her a 100k.
It's mostly the insurance co's fault because they will not fight a case unless it's big money 50 to 100k they just pay it and raise your premiums.I hope this all works out for Richard and wife because I know the pain of a accident when someone dies in the crash
I would definitively not get a dash cam for any vehicle I drive. A good lawyer could argue that I didn't take evasive action to prevent an accident. Or find all kinds of reasons to find me negligent. A dash cam isn't going to prevent anything. To me, it is just an other useless gadget. So you guys going to tape a camera on your forehead now? LOL
JC
Luvrbus is correct. People and lawyers are always looking for deep pockets. Having driven for Coca Cola, Budweiser, Kraft Foods and major lumber companies, we were always made aware of how careful we had to be on the road because of accident victims looking for big payouts. One of my employer's insurance companies informed us to watch cars suddenly pulling in front of us to intentionally cause rear ender accidents looking for a payout.
I knew a truck driver who was involved in a fatal accident; not his fault, but he was concerned the victim's family would go after his assets and even his home.
Funny how anti dash cam you guys are lol. Why is it that nearly every trucking company is now installing them in their trucks? Because they are banking that it's going to protect them and their drivers from the "he said she said" syndrome. I know there are ridiculous lawyers and cases but there are a lot of cut and dry cases too every day just like Richards where a camera simply proves that someone made a fatal error. End of story. To each their own. I have cameras covering every square foot of my coach front back and sides and they are rolling 24/7 whether the bus is moving or not. Someday I'll either be incriminated by them because of my own error or exonerated by them cause of someone else's. That's my gamble.
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I am not anti dash cam I have 2 but if I was involved in a accident it would take a court order for me to release the info I sure wouldn't put it out on you tube is what I am saying for all the crooked a** attorneys to see.Richard has enough to worry about dealing with the insurance co's now any ways without this.PS Scott if check the dash cams in trucks they face the driver not the front
There's some truth to that no doubt cliff. I agree it makes me think twice how many cameras are out there in the world....but I guess I believe in fighting fire with fire I suppose
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Scott,
What's wrong with that car changing lanes? Out here in Ca, that would be considered very courteous since the blinker was used. There are days here I see multiple cars zooming and swerving across multiple lanes that you'd think you were in a NASCAR race. Or those who think merging means just keep creeping into your lane, irrespective of the fact there is a car there and no space. could go on and on and ... LOL
Quick funny story. When I drove the bus from Denver a few months ago, it was so pleasant, even leaving Denver, that drivers were so calm and driving sanely. In a 1500 mile journey I rarely saw any CA driving moves, for that matter hardly any excessive speeding. I saw a bit of craziness rolling through SLC during rush hour. But as soon as I got into Dave's neighborhood (outskirts of Sacramento) did it instantly turn nuts. Then I knew I was home. :(
I have 4 cameras on the work bus. One shows the driver and stairwell, one shows in front of the bus and two give different vantage points down the aisle. Newer schoolbusses have a camera that records the plates of anybody driving through the stop sign. I had three people do that today.
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I agree with S&H, Don, Clifford and some others on most of their discussions.
I am not afraid of lawyers or law enforcement.
I would not provide the tape to a plaintiffs legal team. It is MY property and I will do with it as I see fit. If it sheds light on what happened for law enforcement or my own benefit, I will provide it. If it would incriminate me, I would erase it and plead the fifth, if necessary.
Don, I am in my seventies. I have driven everything imaginable except maybe pro-fuel dragsters for 60 years, including doubles/triples/tankers and commercial buses, throughout all 50 of the States, most of the Canadian Provinces and several trips in my coach far down into Mexico. I've driven all over Europe, Greece, Korea and Kenya. I have heard all my life of "LA drivers/California drivers. I have driven many miles in LA and other parts of CA. My experience is that most drivers there will try to accommodate you if they know your intention and can get their heads out of their phones/laptops or whatever else distracts them. There are a lot of folks that must use the roads there. You must "Get with the program" or the opportunity afforded will quickly be withdrawn! Folks out there must and do know how to drive.
On the other hand, I live in South Dakota. We ain't got many people here. It seems sometimes that all of them decide to go somewhere at the same time. We have two Interstates. The speed limit on both of them is 80! All other divided roads it is 70 and single lanes is 65 unless conditions mandate lower. There are times I can be on the Interstate and cannot see another vehicle for miles in either direction. We have lifelong friends that manage to collide at rural intersections and kill each other because neither has ever met another vehicle there and ignore the stop signs, while maintaining speed. Because we don't have public transportation except in two cities nearly 400 miles apart, by necessity, everyone in the rural areas must drive to medical care or shopping. In SD, for some reason, it appears one either dies young or lives to near 100! There are folks still driving here in the Upper Midwest that have been driving nearly 90 years! There is no requirement to recertify ones' driving ability save an eye exam!
Ponder that a minute!
When Frankie was in the hospital a couple of years ago, our youngest Daughter, that lives in Thousand Oaks, CA, rode the 135 miles home with me to get more clothes and the mail. She was snapping photos on her phone for two hours. I said what are you taking all those pictures of? She replied "No traffic"!
That's me! You may have other ideas!
Quote from: Scott & Heather on October 02, 2017, 10:50:03 AM
There's some truth to that no doubt cliff. I agree it makes me think twice how many cameras are out there in the world....but I guess I believe in fighting fire with fire I suppose
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further..those huge companies have lawyers from .... and wads of cash i can only imagine.
a lawyer will take the case that nets him the big fish.
i will get the lawyer that eats minnows, not sharks.
Hey don, I know it, she was from jersey so maybe that explains the erratic exit. She hit her brakes in front of us too. Yikesz
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I side with Clifford about how lawyers can be very diligent in spreading the blame around and causing unexpected grief. I believe it is a mistake to put the video on U-tube, and I would recommend removing it immediately. I have looked at it a number of times, and since I have been down the road a few million miles in trucks and buses, here is what I see: If you look at the shadow of the bus on the right in relation to the road edge, you see that it is steady as you go down the road, even when the car is starting to drift over. At no time during this event did the bus move to the right even though there was some room to do so while still on the pavement, instead, quite likely, at the time braking and blowing the horn commenced, the bus moved slightly to the left just prior to the collision. A lawyer, with his team of experts, would regard this as a contributory factor, in my opinion. Because of uneven tire pressures or unevenly adjusted brakes, the bus apparently pulled a little to the left. I hate to sound severe or critical, but that is exactly what I see, and I think it could be argued that while the other driver set up the horrible situation, can it be said that everything possible was done to prevent the accident?
The trucking company that I worked for last had a situation during winter driving where an oncoming car had lost control (with semi-bald tires) on a snowy road and was headed towards the tractor-trailer. The driver went completely off the road into a field to avoid the car, but the car did as well and they collided causing the car driver's death. Even though the truck driver did everything possible to avoid the collision, the company was sued. They argued that if the truck had stayed on the road, the collision would not have occurred. The trucking company vigorously fought the claim, and even requested a jury trial; they still ended up having to pay out.
These situations are really sad, all around, and it affects everybody involved. We should be afraid of lawyers in situations like this, and if they get wind that the video exists (private property or not) they can subpoena it to compel production of evidence.
matters not who prevails.
there is already two or ten lawyers sitting in mrs dead guys den...
little car.
big big bus.
did i say i hate lawyers.
thank the LORD for insurance.
i hope.
Enough with the fear mongering - I understand the possibilities, but lawyers lose interest pretty quickly when the pockets aren't deep.
Trucking companies have multi million dollar insurance policies. Few individuals have more than $100,000.
The most likely scenario -- the biggest difficulty will be finding a suitable replacement motor home.
Truth & justice seldom make it past the first step at the courthouse - inside the court room is all about interpretations and perceptions. The trick is to have the court perceive the the reported events so the laws interpreted in your favor.
I have I think $500,000 liability on my auto policy and then a $1 million umbrella liability policy. I had to increase my auto policy to the max to qualify for the umbrella policy. Initially, I was looking for the umbrella policy for a hobby I participate in, not for the auto portion.
These days I figure if someone is killed in a crash that is ruled my fault that the liability is easily going to be $1 million.
This thread has gone off the rails relative to the original post, but the discussions have been instructional.
There are two topics that are important. The first is insurance. All of us who drive conversions regardless of age are between a rock and a hard place. There is a lot of money associated with them that goes unrecognized by insurance companies if you have an ACV policy. The short version is an ACV policy enables the insurance company to decide what they will pay you and if you disagree the burden is on you to challenge their valuation. You will lose.
The safest and most likely way to recover your loss is to buy an Agreed Value policy. In some cases it may be more expensive but at least you and the insurance company both understand what you will be paid in the event of an accident that totals a coach. Depreciation may be considered, but if the appraisal is recent it will not be significant. If you feel you cannot afford Agreed Value you are rolling the dice.
The second topic is dash cams. It doesn't matter what your personal thoughts are about a dash cam. In today's environment it is foolhardy to ignore that cheap technology that may return substantial rewards.
First of all, you are the only one who has to know about it and if you feel the video is working against your interests never reveal its presence or trash the camera and data on it. But with morons on the highway and lawyers waiting to stick it to you I cannot think of anything better than a dash cam to record a moron pulling in too close and slamming on the brakes and then suing you for damages when they caused the accident. There are scumbags that do that in concert with crooked doctors and lawyers to take your money and there are stupid people who have no clue your bus cannot stop as fast as their Prius. At least provide yourself with the option of making a video available to show you were blameless.
Jon, you're assuming you are able enough to hide the dashcam if you think it might work against you.
You may be dazed, surely distracted, forgot about it, hurt, etc. and not able to get to the camera to remove it if you feel it might be used to show you are at fault in any part.
Worse, if you think you did mess up and hide it, the other party tells the officer you hid the camera.
Dashcams cut both ways. I'd much rather go he said, she said route. Personal opinion, it would be interesting to learn from studies if the overall favor the user.
If an attorney stopped at the limits of your liability policy it would be one thing but those guys check your assets and go for those when they drain the limits stated on your policy,the insurance co is only liable for the terms written out on your policy if it exceeds that he going for you not the insurance co.Insurance Co's have laws written to protect their sorry @$#
"Ifs, Ands, Buts, Wouldas, Shoudas, Couldas, we didn't have enough points." (This quote was made by Raider player John Matuzak (s)) when asked by a reporter, post game, why they lost. I hope I remembered it close enough some 40 years later.
This thread has provoked a vast amount of opinions.
My contribution was my opinion and what I felt could be added to it. Yours may differ.
We are each responsible for our own actions.
Outhouse lawyers aside, There was a huge interest in this accident because it involved one of our own. Dash camera discussion followed. The poster published his video. I'm confident he did so to better relay to us what happened.
I choose to live my life with an upbeat. I choose to be optimistic in my belief: "...reasonable men" will prevail.
I too, can cite examples of this not always being the case. We hear of those every time. We do not often hear of the many times justice did prevail. That's why we have Appellate and Supreme Courts.
I too, have a Million dollar Umbrella Policy, for the reasons cited and more.
All lawyers are not created equal. I would retain one that I felt could best represent me. Truth is, I probably wouldn't have the opportunity. My insurance would decide how they would handle everything. I agreed to that when I obtained their insurance.
I think if you do not have your investment documented with the insurer and the original receipts in your safe (not located in the coach), you do not have a prayer of recovering enough. Every action you can produce documents to prove enhances your chances. YOU are your best lawyer! If you don't, you are remiss, IMO.
I too started out with "Agreed" value. They never asked for pictures. It was expensive and the company kept raising my rates. I reached the point where "that warm fuzzy feeling" in our "deal" did not exist and changed companies.
As most of my experience dictates, someone was looking out for me. USAA, that for whatever reason, decided they would enter the conversion market. We had our interchange and they asked me for photos to see what they were about to insure. I complied and they agreed to cover it. I asked them about improvements I foresaw and they advised me to keep receipts. When major improvements were made, I advised them, furnished photos, and we adjusted the cost of the Policy to reflect that. We have a relationship that goes back nearly fifty years. I was taught very young to "Dance with the one that brung me". Every dealing I have had with them, not just insurance but investments and banking, has reflected our mutual trust. I do have that warm, fuzzy, feeling where they are concerned and pertaining to the coach, that's been more than 20 years. I have never in our time together submitted a claim that I caused or could have prevented. I have had claims. I ran a bass boat through a ladies kitchen once in Texas. That is a story best related over a camp fire. If you qualify for them, you should investigate their firm. It is First Class!
All of us have opinions and experiences, some more than others.
Please, let's not forget there are many silent "Wanna bes" and folks new to this madness that inflicts us. Our inputs sometimes don't have the effect we desire on them.
I want as many of them to come as possible! There may come a time I am in need of a few "reasonable" men. At least I might be portrayed as not the only one mad!
I have carried 1 mil liability since 1982 it doesn't cost that more and insurance co lawyers will fight for you to save a million, for $15,000 they will throw you under the bus.
This is not bus related by no means it is sad when I have to have insurance on a vacant piece of property, the City of Scottsdale makes us carry 1 mil on a piece of property to protect the public they say, if some fool runs off the road and hits a cactus or mesquite tree why should I be responsible ??? ??? when he or she has no business on our property
"Insurance co lawyers will fight for you to save a million, for $15,000 they will throw you under the bus"
AMEN to that Clifford.
When you get a chance, I would appreciate the new phone number. Else, Frankie and I might show up like hobos on your porch and Sonya might run us off with her broom.
Joe, my old phone number is supposed to be working by Friday but I will PM my cell number.lol yea I did break down and get a cell phone
Quote from: kyle4501 on October 03, 2017, 06:31:08 AM
Enough with the fear mongering.
I turned off a while ago. Several threads are full of ludicrous fear mongering. Just too many people with too much time posting rather than thinking or doing.
The original video of the dash cam was excellent and I forwarded the link to the safety director at my workplace fir the next safety meeting.
Coincidentally I had something similar begin to happen today. I was driving at 40mph with a fully loaded school bus around the outside of a 45mph bend. A car came over the double yellow lines into my lane. I had nowhere to swerve to. No point in sounding the horn (I regard the horn as being a fairly useless invention). I braked hard enough to slow my vehicle but not hard enough to injure my passengers. Fortunately the car driver got his head out of his damn phone and steered himself out of danger. I was expecting a collision.
Now, in my happening today.... I was covered by the camera recording the guy coming over the double yellow line. I had shown I was trying to avoid the collision by braking. I had avoided liability for injuring my passengers by not panic braking. I didn't have much warning either. He was 50-75 feet away when he began to encroach on my lane.
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I see that the video has been deleted from U Tube which is probably good IMO and I think you used bad judgement in forwarding his video
Quote from: luvrbus on October 03, 2017, 06:10:25 PM
I see that the video has been deleted from U Tube which is probably good IMO and I think you used bad judgement in forwarding his video
No. It had educational value. It showed what the effect of a car hitting a bus could be, including loss of control while highlighting that brakes should be used rather than horn.
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If an attorney stopped at the limits of your liability policy it would be one thing but those guys check your assets and go for those when they drain the limits stated on your policy,the insurance co is only liable for the terms written out on your policy if it exceeds that he going for you not the insurance co.
Clifford,
If they sue me, collect from my insurance, decide that is not enough and then go after my assets, they are going to be sorely disappointed. The bus is the most expensive thing I own by a long shot. ;D ;D
Once it is totaled, maybe they will not want it.
Davy
Quote from: luvrbus on October 03, 2017, 06:10:25 PM
I see that the video has been deleted from U Tube which is probably good IMO and I think you used bad judgement in forwarding his video
I'm glad Richard deleted the video, but I'm surprised that no one has commented on what I saw in the video about the movement of the bus. I guess the whole situation is a little too difficult to think about, but it is an important lesson for us all.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on October 03, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
I'm glad Richard deleted the video, but I'm surprised that no one has commented on what I saw in the video about the movement of the bus. I guess the whole situation is a little too difficult to think about, but it is an important lesson for us all.
I saw in the video that the bus stayed in his lane until impact.
I did call my insurance agent today - my policy is for appraised value at the time of claim. I was also told that receipts showing improvements & upgrades would add to the value.
YMMV
Quote from: DoubleEagle on October 03, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
I'm glad Richard deleted the video, but I'm surprised that no one has commented on what I saw in the video about the movement of the bus. I guess the whole situation is a little too difficult to think about, but it is an important lesson for us all.
I saw what you mentioned (even before you mentioned it) regarding the bus maintaining course and lane. I also saw a wide pavement shoulder and what may or may not have been a soft gravel shoulder. Then I watched it over and over, and in slow motion and the most critical thing I saw (without factoring in the distortion of distance caused by the wide angle camera, was that from the time the car crossed the line until impact was less than 3 seconds. I don't know if he applied the brakes in that 3 seconds. That's not evident in the video, but in 3 seconds, I would not expect to see movement to the right. It takes a minimum of 2 seconds to even process that this car is coming way over the line, which is out of the normal, and there's a potential for a collision and another full second to react. Do you automatically begin evasive action every time some nitwit encroaches on the center line when meeting? I don't because I have some trust in fellow drivers and past experiences have shown that they are generally going to correct and get over, or at the least just run a tire down the line which I can still avoid with minimal action.
3 seconds! I don't think he did anything wrong.
Quote from: gumpy on October 03, 2017, 08:49:18 PM
I saw what you mentioned (even before you mentioned it) regarding the bus maintaining course and lane. I also saw a wide pavement shoulder and what may or may not have been a soft gravel shoulder. Then I watched it over and over, and in slow motion and the most critical thing I saw (without factoring in the distortion of distance caused by the wide angle camera, was that from the time the car crossed the line until impact was less than 3 seconds. I don't know if he applied the brakes in that 3 seconds. That's not evident in the video, but in 3 seconds, I would not expect to see movement to the right. It takes a minimum of 2 seconds to even process that this car is coming way over the line, which is out of the normal, and there's a potential for a collision and another full second to react. Do you automatically begin evasive action every time some nitwit encroaches on the center line when meeting? I don't because I have some trust in fellow drivers and past experiences have shown that they are generally going to correct and get over, or at the least just run a tire down the line which I can still avoid with minimal action.
3 seconds! I don't think he did anything wrong.
Yes, there was no movement to the right for whatever reason, but there was slight movement to the left as he braked and blew the horn. If he had time to begin braking, he might have also had time to move to the right a little. The driver of the car had the time to wake up or stop texting to pull back to his lane (just not far enough). No judgments about right or wrong, just trying to analyze what happened. Now that the video is gone, speculation will come to an end. As far as taking action when potential danger becomes evident goes, yes, I begin to be prepared to take action at the least. Assuming that someone crossing the center-line will return is a dangerous gamble, they deserve the horn or flashing lights at least.
every instruction i ever got was you stay in your lane.
he did.
Yeah he did no wrong and did as well as he could in a bad situation. Sometimes people die when they do wrong. A two-lane highway is just that kind of place -- you have just a few feet between you and death.
Quote from: eagle19952 on October 03, 2017, 10:05:02 PM
every instruction i ever got was you stay in your lane.
he did.
Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel. Having said that, it's debatable as to whether both hands firmly grasping the wheel and hard braking would have affected the outcome greatly.
The important thing is he did something. He sounded the horn. While my reaction is always to brake and lock the wheel rather than to sound the horn, it really depends on your training. I'm not a fan of the horn button being in the center of the steering wheel. I prefer the European idea of having it on the end of a control stem.
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Quote from: gumpy on October 03, 2017, 08:49:18 PM
. Do you automatically begin evasive action every time some nitwit encroaches on the center line when meeting? I don't because I have some trust in fellow drivers and past experiences have shown that they are generally going to correct and get over, or at the least just run a tire down the line which I can still avoid with minimal action.
3 seconds! I don't think he did anything wrong.
He did something. He reacted to the danger.
I don't take evasive action though I do brake if somebody comes over the center line. Driving 100+ miles daily in a schoolbus tends to hone your skills.
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Quote from: richard5933 on September 30, 2017, 09:34:03 AM
We're both fine physically. My heart is broken.
1964 PD4106-2412
Tragady wether your fault or not take a toll remind yourself and husband you did not have control sadness I understand but do not feel guilt . Sending prayers your way .
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Quote from: Zephod on October 04, 2017, 12:56:10 AM
Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel.
Again, you're making unsupported assumptions and wild accusations here which are not based on the information provided.
Go back and read the thread. The loss of control was caused by the steering being ripped from the underside of the bus upon impact. It had absolutely nothing to do with him using the horn. You have no idea if he had both hands on the wheel or not and speculation on your part as if it were fact is asinine. Many buses have horn buttons on the side of the wheel. The horn was not sounding at the time of impact. You have no clue where his hands were.
Quote from: MrCrowley on October 04, 2017, 04:36:07 AMTragady wether your fault or not take a toll remind yourself and husband you did not have control sadness I understand but do not feel guilt . Sending prayers your way .
These are similar to my feelings. This event was visited upon you through no fault of your own, but it will still have an impact on you. Take good care of yourself and do the simple things; get rest, eat smart, get out and exercise and get in some relaxing entertainment. You'll have to do some work to get your mind right again but if your body is as healthy as it can be, it will be a benefit to you.
I have continuously thought through all this how much sympathy and empathy that I have for you and your family. It's a terrible thing but you did all that's humanly possible. It's not your fault - it happened to by external factors, not your actions or failings.
Man..seems there is some unneeded back and forth on this topic.. sad deal it seems. A young life was lost. I didnt get too see the video. But sounds like he did what he thought was right inannsplit second decision to keep himself and wife safe.something he only had a fraction of control over. Was lucky.they walked away.. im sure they will struggle with and question the what if's.. what if he had reacted different. Would they have walked away then? We can all ssay or guess what wed have done. But till ur there..in that moment. You and your wife were in the right rig..made the right split second decision. Walked away. U could have made a hundred diff split second decisions different ..with the same results. It wasnt your fault and only had control over a fraction of the whole ordeal.
Glad you and your wife are ok. Physically.. hope with some time you will find comfort with emotional side of it.. interested to see pics of how the bus did and didnt fair in whole ordeal..
Quote from: Zephod
Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel. Having said that, it's debatable as to whether both hands firmly grasping the wheel and hard braking would have affected the outcome greatly.
The important thing is he did something. He sounded the horn. While my reaction is always to brake and lock the wheel rather than to sound the horn, it really depends on your training. I'm not a fan of the horn button being in the center of the steering wheel. I prefer the European idea of having it on the end of a control stem.
Zephod you really do need to attend a bus rally sometime and take some tours of other COACHES!
MOST of the buses people on this board have are over the road or transist coaches, not skoolies. They are an entirely different animal!
Don't get me wrong I have nothing wrong with skoolies or your choice to build one, and I certainly applaud you for your creativity and out of the box thinking on things that you have done on yours.
But the point is the horn you hear honking in that video is the air horn and 99% of those on coaches are operated by a foot button, not by hand.
Side note to all;
Having driven
(many times up to 650 miles a day) for a living for over 35 yrs from tow trucks, dump trucks, equipment haulers, OTR tractor trailers, and charter buses I have seen many many bad wrecks, some caused by stupid actions of someone (either involved in the accident, or not), and some that just happened due to mechanical failures, weather, who knows or what ever.
The fact remains the same trying to avoid a collision at highway speeds in ANY vehicle, but especially a large tall and heavy vehicle such a bus or truck is recipe for disaster!
Tall heavy vehicles tend to "fall" over when you attempt to change direction suddenly at high speed. Best to stay straight ahead and aviod rolling the truck or bus!
A good friend and former employee of mine had a tragic accident back in 2016 when he was hit almost exactly like the accident in the video he tried to move to the right "as much as he safely could on a 2 lane hwy w/o a shoulder and still got clipped same as Richard did. But Nathan made the mistake of trying to give a couple extra feet to the Ford Explorer that was coming at him, and ended up dropping the right side steer tire of the edge of the road which ended up causing the bus to flip on it's side after the impact, and nearly totaling a 2016 Prevost coach with less than 20,000 miles on it!
The repairs were over $300,000 and LANCER Insurance would NOT TOTAL it, and replace it for the owner! Had it been me we (Lancer & I) would have had a major fight over that one! It took close to a year of the bus in 3 different shops to get it back on the road and the whole time the owner had to keep making payments!
The young lady that hit Nathan was a single mother of 3 in her 20's going to college to become a nurse to make a better life for her and her children, had no insurance and the vehicle was not properly registered and was actually not a valid VIN in any data base meaning the vehicle had been sold to a recycling facility and should have been crushed or dismantled for parts as the title was turned in to the state and voided.
How the car got back on the road and who was responsible is still a mystery to us, as we were never told any more about if the authorities had found out any of that.
Point is the man that owned the bus had to "take what Lancer told him, about repairing the bus because to repairs did not exceed the value of a brand new bus, and there was nothing in his policy that said he could refuse to let them repair the coach rather than total and replace it!"
He and I talked about it at length and he even took what came from our discussions to his lawyer who checked and rechecked everything we discussed,but found no grounds to stand on against the insurance company!
The only blessing the owner got out of it was that Prevost was gracious enough to give him a loaner/demo unit to use for the time the bus was out of service, while he was making payments on it.
But Prevost didn't have to do that,they just did as the guy was between a rock and a hard place because his insurance policy had nothing in it about a replacement vehicle for loss of revenue in it. And since the young lady that hit it had no insurance and no assets he was basically screwed even though he nor his driver had done anything wrong!
B_K
Quote from: Zephod on October 04, 2017, 12:56:10 AM
Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel. Having said that, it's debatable as to whether both hands firmly grasping the wheel and hard braking would have affected the outcome greatly.
The important thing is he did something. He sounded the horn. While my reaction is always to brake and lock the wheel rather than to sound the horn, it really depends on your training. I'm not a fan of the horn button being in the center of the steering wheel. I prefer the European idea of having it on the end of a control stem.
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go back and read the post.
he lost control because the front end was damaged,
get a clue.
What I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.
Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.
He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.
Quote from: Jon on October 04, 2017, 01:49:23 PM
What I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.
Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.
He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.
You're painting with a very wide brush there.
Quote from: Jon on October 04, 2017, 01:49:23 PMWhat I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.
Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.
He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.
Agreed. That video was instructional. As I've said... he did do [italic]something[/italic]even though sounding the horn probably took his hand off the wheel at an inopportune moment. He did not sit like a lemon and watch the disaster happening. But it's ok if he was frozen by horror and did just that - it's a very human reaction. In war soldiers sometimes drop flat and freeze instead of attacking or retreating or whatever. It's the way we work.
I tend to hang onto the wheel and brake but that's my method.
I've noticed on many forums the nitpickers that pick everything to bits. Just the same happens to many of my threads which is why I don't take anything said or advice given on the forum particularly seriously. That daft thread on airing up a bus quickly is a prime example. I aired my work bus quickly today. It took two minutes and I centered the rev counter needle. Having said that, it wasn't from cold - I'd been parked at a Starbucks for 45 minutes having coffee while waiting to start the highschool late start run.
What is missing though is sympathy for Richard and the misplaced guilt that his mind is probably tormenting him with - stupid things like "if I had not been on that road" or "if I'd taken up flower arranging" etc. he's probably at the stage where he's clutching at straws and trying to blame himself for everything. Last I knew - the car driver was at fault.
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Donald, I did not say everyone that posted was critical of Richard's actions. But my heart goes out to the guy who did not cause the accident, felt terrible because of it and then the pundits started in on being critical at a time when he just did not need to be jumped on.
Or do you seriously believe the criticisms weren't adding to his pain.
That is not a soul on this board that their hearts are not breaking and have great sympathy for Richard and his wife where do come up with this sh** Zephod .Lol Jon calling a few of us arm chair lawyers on his site doesn't bother me as much as your BS does. ;D.
I don't why Jon choose this forum to make his comments the reactions were about the same on his Prevost board and he said nothing it is ok I still love Jon.
We need to leave this alone and let Richard and wife have time to relax ,clear their heads and get their business settled and go on with their lives these comments are not helping and you know Richard is reading all this crap
I think Richard is an amazing bus nut! He cares enough about us to share his experience so we can benefit.
A kind heart, a class act, and a fine example to follow.
Quote from: Zephod on October 04, 2017, 02:54:30 PM
What is missing though is sympathy for Richard and the misplaced guilt that his mind is probably tormenting him with - stupid things like "if I had not been on that road" or "if I'd taken up flower arranging" etc. he's probably at the stage where he's clutching at straws and trying to blame himself for everything. Last I knew - the car driver was at fault.
You really don't know when to shut the hell up, do you??
Quote from: gumpy on October 04, 2017, 05:11:37 PM
You really don't know when to shut the hell up, do you??
Why are you so nasty to me?
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Quote from: Zephod on October 04, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Why are you so nasty to me?
Because you insist on posting stupid stuff. You mentioned taking his hand off the wheel to honk the horn a second time even after someone mentioned the air horn is foot actuated. What would have been the difference if the bus driver had one or two wheels on the steering wheel? The bus veered off the road after being hit because the steering linkage broke in the crash. The braking system also broke. A firm hold on the steering wheel makes no difference if the steering wheel is no longer connected to the wheels.
Hi Folks,
My hart goes out to Richard and his wife. Very tough stuff to deal with! I thank him for sharing...
Let's end this discussion for now and keep one of our treasured members in our prayers for healing.
Regards
Nick-
Amen to that and ditto on those prayers. Thanks Nick