Hello All, thank you to the moderators for hosting this site and all those with experience under your belt willing to help and share you knowledge.
First off my name is Fraser and my Wife and I are seeking a bus conversion in which to take our three children 7,5,2 around the USA and perhaps Canada. We feel it is important that the kids get to see all the parks and wonders to be seen and at this point with three children and the cost of traveling (Air/Hotels or AirBNB/Rental Van or SUV) we feel the bus may be the best option. We are not interested in a fifth wheel, tow behind, or other Sticks And Staples rig. Our trips would most likely all be under two weeks in length so we would not be full timing.
I have found two buses with bunk beds and would gratefully seek your input/wisdom/guidance.
1. First bus is a 1990 MCI 102A3 with an asking price of $30,000 that was purchased by the current owner in 2005 and the conversion was finished (Virginia Coach) in 2007 at which time they (family of four/Two Bunks Beds) used it full time for approx six years. I think the owner may actually be a member on here or was.
(http://C:%5CUsers%5Cjonefra1%5CDesktop%5CBus%5CMCI.jpg)
Link: https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html (https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html)
I paid Sawyers to perform an inspection and they found a few engine leaks (at Turbo Intake, at Fan Drive Gear Box, at 3 lb Oil Pressure Sender), transmission hose on right top leaking at fitting, the Speedometer, Oil Pressure, Temperature Gauges don't work, Not Gen tell tale alert flickers, and the transmission shift rough during the ten mile drive (they say it's not unusual for this type transmission until fluid gets warmer it was only 50 degrees, might get better then again it might not). This bus has bubbling (Corrosion/Rust??) occurring at the rear of the coach almost at the end of the pinstripe on both side panels which are supposedly galvalume (galvanized/ aluminum).
2. Second bus is a 1977 GMC 4905A with a supposedly firm price of $21,000 that was purchased and converted by the current owner in 1995-1997 and it has three bunk beds. Per the owner the bus needs two front tires, front brake chamber and air hoses (he just recently replaced the rear hoses and Brake Chamber), needs two starting batteries and has a bit of surface rust on rear engine hatch. When he purchased bus it had rust up front on the D windows and some other areas that he fixed and then Zinc Chromated.
(http://C:%5CUsers%5Cjonefra1%5CDesktop%5CBus%5CGMC.jpg)
Link: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html)
I am torn between the two buses, the MCI is in Virginia and the GMC in Phoenix AZ. I like the fact that the MCI is more updated however I really like the classic lines of the GMC, the wood work, bunk beds, etc... and I don't think it would take all the much to get it updated with new seating up front except for the two seats behind the driver.
Thoughts that you all could share? I have spoken to both owners and have lots of pictures of each bus and the MCI has some video's on youtube under Sawyers Bus Sales which should be easy to find including a drive in it. I will be able to take care of most of the maintenance myself (can't be any harder then my 2005 Mercedes Diesel?) on each bus.
Thank you everyone
I have a 102a2 that I got cheap enough but every time I look a little closer at something I find more things that need attention. If it has rust at the rear baggage bulkhead, of the 102, just stay away. Because that means the rust is heavy in the forward compartments and the salt has gotten into everything. When I repaired my rear bulk head. I literally dug salt out by the pound. Look at the pics at mc9/102.com. The ones where they show the rust I. The lower compartments. If the screws at the hinges are rusty. Stay away. This bus runs great and drives awesome. But it's not, nor was it ever gonna be a long term bus, I just bought it for the modern bus thing like you are thinking. Now that I know what I'm looking for long term, I'm gonna go more modern than this. As for the older bus, unless you are into doing an apprenticeship on 2 strokes and chassis from some of the pros here for 4-10 years, you'll be looking that long for help keeping it on the road.
Jack, the GMC 4905a is that bad? From what I have read online owners seem to think they are pretty reliable and well built. The 102 has something occurring at the rear of the bus under the side windows and just after the point in the stripe. I will check out the website you referenced which I think is: http://mci102.com/Buying_a_MCI_Bus.htm (http://mci102.com/Buying_a_MCI_Bus.htm)
Thank you Jack
Hi Fraser, keep looking, southwest buses are best bet for finding a minumum rust bus, but just because it's in the SW, doesnt mean it's from the SW. So always check for rust, the stainless steel modern buses have less places they can rust. On MCIs check around the radiators, if its a split radiator system, the sub chassis structure for rust, as the salt air is sucked in thru there and rusts that structure. Take a big screw driver, if you can push it thru metal, walk away. Surface rust and rust that permeated the steel are different. Others will mention more, like spare tire bay, around windows if you can check them, rivets with bubbles under the paint, rusted mufflers are just some of the simple rust issues to check that would tell you to walk away from a particular bus, lvmci...
Don't discount bubbling paint, poor surface preparation before the paint can cause that, with no underlying cancer issues.
You gotta know what you're looking at!
Both owners are proud of their coaches, at those prices, properly working isn't unreasonable?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
lvmci, buswarrior, Jack,
From reading your responses I am sensing that I could find a better bus / deal if I keep my eyes open? Just to confirm did you look at the pictures of each bus on the links as both of them have been converted already. Other then some repairs it would appear that each is usable almost immediately. It just seems that at those prices $30,000/$21,000 the buyer would be getting a lot of bus for the money. Heck you can barely purchase a KIA for $21,000 anymore.
Thanks and please keep the replies, insight, and thoughts coming if you are so willing.
Check C/L for Parker and Lake Havasu Az Bill has a 4104 and 4905 for sale his 4905 is a better coach for less money than the one in Laveen and has 2 roof tops with a diesel generator
Luvrbus,
Found the posting: http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5478894686.html (http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5478894686.html)
I like the new engine/transmission however the interior needs to have room for at least three bunks which has me looking at the two I posted previously. Any recommendations for someone who can reasonably convert Bill's 4905 into a bedroom (queen) with three bunks while retaining the kitchen?
You reference Laveen AZ so could I take it that you know the bus I posted about? The owner said he has it parked at a Dairy about 30 miles from his house in Mesa so Laveen would make sense. If you know the bus could you tell me more about it and what you thought? I really like the two seats mounted behind the drivers seat, I have not seen this on another bus before but great for kids.
Thanks
Prices for buses bear almost no relationship to the value of the bus, nor the costs associated with building them, nor the costs associated with maintaining them or repairing them. Even at $30K, the price of the bus isn't the point - it could be free if it costs another $30 within a year (new engine, anyone?) and the bus cost someone a half a million at some point in the first place. Selling a bus that can't pass a DOT inspection (the MCI and it's faulty ground in the instrument panel?) makes it a gamble, a 40 year old GM where the manufacturer has been out of the game for decades equally a gamble. A 270 hp 8v71 NA in a 40 foot bus with a three speed auto is a recipe for not getting anywhere very quickly, which is not always a problem. I wouldn't focus much on the asking price, but on what you think it will cost over the next three years. And that is always a gamble.
My gut would make the MCI the better choice - engine, trans, and rust willing.
Bevan, the 4905 I posted has a 4 speed manual not an auto. I guess unless you are purchasing from a recognized guru or new with a warranty any bus is going to be somewhat a roll of the dice. Do you think a bus is the wrong route to go for my family? Alternatives?
Thanks
hi Fraser, call B&B Coach in LV, they advertise here, there is a coach with a 8V92, I think its a 96A, no generator, it was stolen, very nice interior, a cross between a entertainer and a motorhome, that I was interested in awhile back, that is for sale now, for about the price of what your looking at, lvmci...
lvmci, appears www.bbcoach.com (http://www.bbcoach.com) is down at the moment. I will call them tomorrow and check on that bus, thank you for the referral.
I agree that you should look further, there are many buses for sale. You have not mentioned whether you have any experience driving a bus, if you do not, driving a four speed manual might not be for you. Plus, the resale value of a coach with an automatic (preferably a Allison) will be greater and make the coach more marketable. MCI's and Prevost's are still in business, therefore parts will be easier to get. The MCI and the GM that you are looking at have very usable interiors, but the body and mechanical condition need to be checked very carefully. If you do not have mechanical skills, you will need to be able to have good financial reserves to pay someone who does. There are many things that can go wrong with a coach, I would recommend buying one from a individual that has had the coach for years and knows all of its' faults and pluses. A dealer is out to make a profit, and is not likely to know the coach well. Knowing the repair history of the bus is worth a lot.
DoubleEagle,
No experience driving a bus but plenty riding in one. I have driven almost everything else (cars, trucks, tractors, boats) and in central America, Europe including Rome, etc... I do drive manual transmissions. I agree the auto will have a much wider market and resale value then a manual transmission bus. My mechanical skills are pretty strong, I do all my own work on personal vehicles such as engine/suspension/etc...
The owner of the GMC has owned it since 1995 and seems to know all it's faults. On the other hand the MCI owner seems to have less mechanical skills and more pocket assets.
So the GMC is not recommended then by anyone on here? Luvrbus I get the sense that you may know this particular GMC as you knew the location of it in Laveen, is this true? Is it in bad shape or??? Thanks everyone.
Electrical and 2 stroke bag of tricks are the 2 main things with older buses even if rust free. I have a 50 and a 30 year old bus. The 50 year old is pretty rust free but some of the electrical needs tending. The 30 year old is mostly sound electrically but has corrosion every where inside of it. 2 strokes are way different and each version and style has it own bag of tricks. A lot of the older buses are owned and fixed by people that came of age when they were new and top shelf. The number of people that can fix them is getting smaller all the time. That's why I say more modern motor. But not too modern. Series 50 or 60 and cummins m11. I'm 45 and in 20 years people will say your crazy if you say the phrase 2 stroke diesel. Oh I'm sorry, got called that 5 years ago already. My how time flys. I have a lot of skills and also drove trucks in Europe for 4 years. But if you can drive a 40-45 foot bus to try first, I would. I bought my mc5 had a cast on my left leg. Had old tires and I mean old and drove it from silver city New Mexico to Wyoming. It's been a lot more fun si cr that trip. Good luck hunting.
Our bus is for sale on Dallas craigslist. But it might be too far to drive? I love our 9 but we opted to purchase a 102" wide coach since we Fulltime. We are going to start converting it this summer. Our 9 isn't perfect but I trust it enough that I'm about to drive it across the country :)
Scott
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love my gmc !
With a wife and three children it would be wise to find the best bus that you can afford even it it doesn't have bunk beds. Things can be modified to ones needs. Don't buy junk you don't want to get stuck on the side of the road or somewhere else with the wife and three children having to wait while you attempt to fix or waiting for a tow company to show up. I blew an air bag in a Rv park 110 miles from home. Luckly
I had my jeep with me, left the bus with a local truck repair facility. Told them to change all 8 air bags and fix a power steering leak. $4200.00 later I drove back and picked it up. So you can see that no matter how experienced you may think you are buses are big and many of the parts can become very expensive. Good Luck and use your money wisely.
The GMC in Laveen does have a nice interior (in the pictures, at least), but that 4 speed Spicer is non-syncromesh and will be more challenging to drive. All I see on the roof is one A/C, which will not be enough in many situations. I remember crossing Texas in the nineties with my Model 05 Silvereagle with three roof airs going when it was about 100 degrees out, and we were not comfortable. If Luvrbus knows details about this coach that are redeeming, it might be worth a look, but drive it first before any decision is made. All of the coaches that most of us can afford will have some problems, the key is how expensive they are and whether you know about them in advance. I realize that you are probably itching to get something so that you can go on a trip this summer, but do not set yourself up for grief and buyers remorse. I have driven tractor trailers and charter buses since 1970, I like MCI's, Van Hool's, Prevost's, and GMC's to drive, but I love my Silvereagles. For a first bus that you can afford, a MCI might be best.
Scott,
I found your craigslist ad here: https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/5534286204.html
I really like the elevated bed at the back with room underneath and the full size residential toilet! Why is the front living room so empty was something (chairs?) removed or did you just keep it wide for floor space for children to play?
Thanks
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 13, 2016, 08:49:54 PM
Our bus is for sale on Dallas craigslist. But it might be too far to drive? I love our 9 but we opted to purchase a 102" wide coach since we Fulltime. We are going to start converting it this summer. Our 9 isn't perfect but I trust it enough that I'm about to drive it across the country :)
Scott
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
scanzel
Thank you for your post and experience. I have found on my vehicles that the parts are not all that expensive but rather its the labor to diagnose / install. Looking at parts prices for buses it seems this also holds true?? For instance on your airbag repair for all 8 do you recall how much of that was parts and how much was labor? I plan on towing our Honda Odyssey van behind the bus on most trips. Thanks
Quote from: scanzel on April 14, 2016, 05:18:57 AM
With a wife and three children it would be wise to find the best bus that you can afford even it it doesn't have bunk beds. Things can be modified to ones needs. Don't buy junk you don't want to get stuck on the side of the road or somewhere else with the wife and three children having to wait while you attempt to fix or waiting for a tow company to show up. I blew an air bag in a Rv park 110 miles from home. Luckly
I had my jeep with me, left the bus with a local truck repair facility. Told them to change all 8 air bags and fix a power steering leak. $4200.00 later I drove back and picked it up. So you can see that no matter how experienced you may think you are buses are big and many of the parts can become very expensive. Good Luck and use your money wisely.
DoubleEagle,
I did not notice that about the single A/C nor did I know about the non-syncromesh transmission. The seller says it is a wet clutch and should last a long long time. You are correct about the itch. I figured the GMC I could take down to that bus painter on the other side of the border in Yuma to get painted and the MCI I could take down to Choo Choo for repairs since they get great reviews and the hourly rate at Choo Choo is about half other places I have looked into but the MCI needs a paint job as well. I am being told that a basic paint job with no frills is around $15k in the states and much cheaper using the guy south of Yuma.
Thanks
Luvrbus, do you know this particular GMC 4905a in Laveen/Phoenix? If so please share your thoughts.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 14, 2016, 06:33:19 AM
The GMC in Laveen does have a nice interior (in the pictures, at least), but that 4 speed Spicer is non-syncromesh and will be more challenging to drive. All I see on the roof is one A/C, which will not be enough in many situations. I remember crossing Texas in the nineties with my Model 05 Silvereagle with three roof airs going when it was about 100 degrees out, and we were not comfortable. If Luvrbus knows details about this coach that are redeeming, it might be worth a look, but drive it first before any decision is made. All of the coaches that most of us can afford will have some problems, the key is how expensive they are and whether you know about them in advance. I realize that you are probably itching to get something so that you can go on a trip this summer, but do not set yourself up for grief and buyers remorse. I have driven tractor trailers and charter buses since 1970, I like MCI's, Van Hool's, Prevost's, and GMC's to drive, but I love my Silvereagles. For a first bus that you can afford, a MCI might be best.
You will be better off with the V730 in a 4905 the wet clutches give problems too
Yep. We liked the open livingroom floor plan. The way we saw it, we only had guests a very small percentage of the time... The much larger percentage of the time fulltiming it's just Heather and I and Emma. So it made sense. I suppose someone could always add seating there if they wanted to
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LVMCI,
Just spoke to B&B about the bus. He is not sure there is room for bunks on the bus but he is going to go look and take some pictures. Firm price of $20,000 on it.
Thanks.
Quote from: lvmci on April 13, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
hi Fraser, call B&B Coach in LV, they advertise here, there is a coach with a 8V92, I think its a 96A, no generator, it was stolen, very nice interior, a cross between a entertainer and a motorhome, that I was interested in awhile back, that is for sale now, for about the price of what your looking at, lvmci...
I guess I'll go ahead and throw this mine into the ring. Sounds like it might have some of the features that you're looking for.
https://lafayette.craigslist.org/rvs/5525209717.html
Tcolley, sent you an email.
Everyone else, looks like a nice bus. Thoughts, concerns, etc???
Thanks
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 14, 2016, 01:04:10 PM
Tcolley, sent you an email.
Everyone else, looks like a nice bus. Thoughts, concerns, etc???
Thanks
Check out as many buses as you can, the more you look, the more knowledgeable you will be. Plus, it is fun. The Gillig is by a current company that makes solid buses with separate frames that are heavy, normally. I do not know about this aluminum bus. The fact that few were made means that some parts might be very difficult to get, or need to be fabricated. The baggage bay area looks very minimal, and if there is a frame, they will not be pass-thru compartments, but separate bins. The Cummins engine with a 10 speed would be a good combo, and it would be syncromesh. Check the interior ceiling height, it might be on the short side.
DoubleEagle,
We are checking out and doing a pros/cons list of the buses. So far we have the following buses under review:
1. 1990 MCI 102A3 $29,995: https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html (https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html) (has some known leaks on the engine, transmission, not sure of engine condition, some gauges not working, but upgraded very nicely, if I purchase this bus it will be taken to Choo Choo for repairs if they are available)
2. 1977 GMC 4905A $21,000: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html) (Love the look of this bus and the inside, inside would be relatively easy to update/upgrade but only a single roof air and the paint could be freshened up by that fellow on the Mexican side of the border at Yuma, AZ)
3. 1984 MCI Challenger II $22,000: http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/5534286204.html (http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/rvs/5534286204.html) (Incredible conversion and picture documentation with cool area under king size bed at rear of bus, not keen on the paint but the paint on almost every bus on this list needs to be redone and the bus has very few side windows)
4. 1986 MCI 96A3 $39,500:http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/rvs/5486903207.html (this bus started our search, love the inside, hate the paint and the price)
5. 1982 Silver Eagle $18,000: http://huntsville.craigslist.org/rvs/5483486370.html (http://huntsville.craigslist.org/rvs/5483486370.html) (left message on this bus, six bunks would work for us)
6. 1976 Gillig $18,000: http://lafayette.craigslist.org/rvs/5525209717.html (http://lafayette.craigslist.org/rvs/5525209717.html) (really cool looking bus but very little bay storage for bikes, kids kayaks, bags, etc...)
7. B&B Coach in Las Vegas has a MCI ??? for $20,000: No link and awaiting information.
So seven possible buses each has it's unique issues and quality's. Thanks everyone.
#5, the "1982" Eagle is probably not a 1982, it might be a 1972, but it is definitely a 05 Model with Model 10 caps. 05 production ended in 1980. It appears to have the white larger diameter steering wheel, which is for the manual steering system with air assist (maybe). It is stated as being manual, so it is likely the non-synchromesh Spicer 4 speed with air assist clutch (dry). The black or dark whatever color will be hot in the summer. Only two pictures, so that is all I can tell you. Unless it was an entertainer coach conversion, it is not likely that the bunks are professionally done. A redone engine is good, but it is probably a 8V71. Generator might be good, but how much A/C capacity? Three roofs at least, or 3 Ton Basement Air. MemphisAire Basement air would be good, has electric furnace as well.
I believe number 5 is a 1982 model 10 with a 5 speed manual 8v71 and power steering with a raised roof it looks like the same bus I installed a injector one time in Needles Ca
Here is a 1986 Eagle with a 6V92T and Manual 5 speed per the owner for $28,500: http://greensboro.craigslist.org/rvs/5480317762.html (http://greensboro.craigslist.org/rvs/5480317762.html)
I have asked for more pictures.
Note: removed Allison per luvrbus, owner was very specific that it was a manual five speed and mentally I just added Allison.
The Allison will not be a manual transmission he says 102 wide also and it appears to be a model 15 Eagle 40ft x 102ins wide
the bus at B&B is a MCI96A,it is set up as an entertainer, but with a bedroom, corner toilet water closet, all grey formica interior, a pro conversion, 8V92, had a big diesel genny, but was stolen, hasn't moved in years. may need tires, lvmci...
There is nothing wrong with a good model 15 Eagle unless it is rusted out,they were probably IMO the best bus ever built in it's time frame
Quote from: luvrbus on April 16, 2016, 07:35:01 AM
I believe number 5 is a 1982 model 10 with a 5 speed manual 8v71 and power steering with a raised roof it looks like the same bus I installed a injector one time in Needles Ca
#5 can't be a model 10 unless someone went through the trouble of installing 05 windows and doors.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 16, 2016, 08:36:23 PM
#5 can't be a model 10 unless someone went through the trouble of installing 05 windows and doors.
the mirrors look early 05 to me... maybe older :(
This is great sport spotting things wrong with Eagle pictures. The 1982 is a 05, not a 10, the 1986 model 15 quite possibly has an older engine which might explain having a 5 speed manual as well. The picture of the engine clearly shows a mitre box, which was last used in 1985. Belts were used after that change. It still bears checking out, but an Allison would be better for your left leg.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 17, 2016, 06:28:57 AM
This is great sport spotting things wrong with Eagle pictures. The 1982 is a 05, not a 10, the 1986 model 15 quite possibly has an older engine which might explain having a 5 speed manual as well. The picture of the engine clearly shows a mitre box, which was last used in 1985. Belts were used after that change. It still bears checking out, but an Allison would be better for your left leg.
Eagle used 3 different fan drives the miter box was used the 6v92 and the 8v92 long past 1985, I know where several model 20's are that use the mitre box,the hyd fans were a piece of crap and you had the option on fan drives fwiw all the Houston Metro 10's had a mitre box,the way one can tell if its a 05 or 10 is with a serial Dennis has 1981 model 10 with the same windows,mirrors steering wheel(factory power steering) and doors lol I am betting it is a model 10
Donald even the model 15 had those mirrors the Ramco's were a option
Here is a 1992 PREVOST 40' "SPECIAL" LE MIRAGE XL CONVERSION being auctioned off in Sealy Texas this Saturday coming up. Apparently it was a drug seizure and it's missing the generator and some other items it appears. Doesn't appear to have a good area in the current setup for bunk beds but could be a great deal for someone.
http://hibid.com/lot/24350396/1992-prevost-40--special--le-mirage-xl-conversion/?q=prevost&ref=lot-list (http://hibid.com/lot/24350396/1992-prevost-40--special--le-mirage-xl-conversion/?q=prevost&ref=lot-list)
Quote from: luvrbus on April 13, 2016, 11:17:30 AM
Check C/L for Parker and Lake Havasu Az Bill has a 4104 and 4905 for sale his 4905 is a better coach for less money than the one in Laveen and has 2 roof tops with a diesel generator
Luvrbus, I spoke with Bill tonight about his 4905 bus. Sounds like a bus with a solid engine and transmission with a little bit of work needed to make road worthy. I will start looking for flights to Phoenix and look at both 4905's out there and then compare to the MCI in VA and hopefully make a decision.
Thanks everyone
Quote from: luvrbus on April 17, 2016, 07:02:44 AM
Eagle used 3 different fan drives the miter box was used the 6v92 and the 8v92 long past 1985, I know where several model 20's are that use the mitre box,the hyd fans were a piece of crap and you had the option on fan drives fwiw all the Houston Metro 10's had a mitre box,the way one can tell if its a 05 or 10 is with a serial Dennis has 1981 model 10 with the same windows,mirrors steering wheel(factory power steering) and doors lol I am betting it is a model 10
Donald even the model 15 had those mirrors the Ramco's were a option
I still respectfully disagree, the "1982" has a low height driver side window, and the entrance door is also low - the mark of a 05. The picture is not real clear, but it looks like the main side windows have the older vent window on top - 01 & 05 vintage. Many 05's had 10 caps after they were built and during the final transition year. I know of no model 10's that left the factory with 05 windows. Subsequent owners are free to make changes, but how many would put in 05 windows in a 10? According to several history of Eagles documentations, including the one by John Veerkamp on coachbuilt.com, the mitre box was eliminated in 1985. It is quite possible that some special arrangements might have been requested by buyers that wanted the mitre box back, but that would cause a change in the location of the engine and other components. It is more likely that when engines wore out, some would elect to make changes and put back mitre boxed engines back in. I drove a 1986 Model 15 with the belt arrangement, and I disliked it. The mitre box might have used more power, but it was more dependable.
We have a FaceBook page all about Eagles some there sold Eagle and parts,designed the Eagles even built the Eagles very interesting some of the things Eagle did under different ownership,serial numbers 30763 and 30674 purchased by Tenneco 2/82 had the small drivers window and they say there are more
So is it a worth while bus, was the question. I believe these folks were just trying to get some advice on a big decision.
Jack
That is correct! It is a big decision. I like the slogan that Marty the Busman has on his website "Finding buses is not a problem It's finding the RIGHT ONE!" which is so true. I have now found this 1988 MCI 102a3 located in Claremore Oklahoma:http://tulsa.craigslist.org/rvs/5496707811.html
This bus appears to be pretty similer to the 1990 MCI 102a3 I am still looking at in VA:https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html
However I think the VA bus is a nicer conversion inside. Apparently Chuck at Commonwealth Coach Works has done quite a bit of work to the 1990 MCI and I left him a message this morning asking if I could discuss this bus with him. Apparently the shower at one point leaked and Chuck replaced some or all of the plumbing with what the owner believes is PEX plumbing which I believe is a great upgrade as that stuff is awesome and freezing won't crack the pex or lead to leaks.
Thanks Everyone
All, here is a picture of the paint bubbles on the 1990 MCI 102a3 at Sawyers Bus Sales. What do you all think? Just the paint bubbling or is it indicative of rust underneath? Sawyers said the panel appears to be Galvalume or Galvanized Aluminum. The paint on this coach is one of the big items against it as the clear coat is pealing off and the bubbling occurring on both sides in the same areas of the coach.
Any recommendations for Paint work that is affordable? I have read about Navarro's paint shop across the border from Yuma, anyone closer to Houston Texas or Virginia?
Thanks
Poke a hole in it and see. best way to tell.
just a thing to tell me to check a lot of thing for rust.
uncle ned
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 18, 2016, 03:32:04 PM
All, here is a picture of the paint bubbles on the 1990 MCI 102a3 at Sawyers Bus Sales. What do you all think? Just the paint bubbling or is it indicative of rust underneath? Sawyers said the panel appears to be Galvalume or Galvanized Aluminum. The paint on this coach is one of the big items against it as the clear coat is pealing off and the bubbling occurring on both sides in the same areas of the coach.
Any recommendations for Paint work that is affordable? I have read about Navarro's paint shop across the border from Yuma, anyone closer to Houston Texas or Virginia?
Thanks
It is corrosion under the paint, probably white aluminum oxide. It will take stripping, sanding, sandblasting, and chemical treatment to be ready for painting. That will up the cost of a good paint job. If it is a good coach otherwise, use this to get the price down $10-15,000.
Here is another pic I found looks like it may be the "white aluminum oxide" you referenced DoubleEagle.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 18, 2016, 06:51:42 PM
It is corrosion under the paint, probably white aluminum oxide. It will take stripping, sanding, sandblasting, and chemical treatment to be ready for painting. That will up the cost of a good paint job. If it is a good coach otherwise, use this to get the price down $10-15,000.
Really ? .... So haggling a $15K discount on a $20K bus.... I highly doubt that is going to happen....
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 18, 2016, 08:18:09 PM
Really ? .... So haggling a $15K discount on a $20K bus.... I highly doubt that is going to happen....
LMAO
Where do live in Houston I plan on letting the convicts at (TCI) Ellis Unit in Huntsville do mine when the time comes ;D they work cheap
It's best to look at the front under the drivers seat. Check that area. It's either good or bad. Trust me. Look at the back wall of the rear compartment and check the bottom of the walls where they are rivited to the floor braces. If the aluminum is eaten then the steel is worse. The stuff outside is not the problem it's on the inside that tells all. Look under it make sure the support on the bottom aren't sagging or flattened. make sure the sides are smooth even and not krinkleing especially above the rear axel. Bulging rivits are a bad sign as well. Look at the brackets that attach the sides to the main support beam under the floor. Check at the floor from underneath at every place you can look. If you can spot heavy rust at the easy places to look then is probably worse where you can't look. I knew this bus had rust issues but I bought it anyway because it's been worth the things it's taught me to look for as I decide my next bus. This one drives great. Even in a cross wind. Most 2 strokes leak oil. Especially when idling or from idling. Auto is the way to go. Especially in traffic. Check tread wear look for cupping or side wear. The blower gear box is probably just over full. They stop leaking when the level get back to normal. Hard to see when filling it and the level plug don't come out easy so they just dump some in for good measure. They think when it quits leaking it's out of oil. Sometimes sight glasses play tricks too. You look it's full, you go back the next morn says empty but you can't find the leak. You stop at the next truck stop, get the lube, open the door and it's full. This happens on both my buses so now I don't believe them and just keep an eye on stuff. Best just start looking at buses you see around you. Just to get a feel of what to look for. Be picky. It's a large machine with a lot of moving parts and they are big as well.
That's most certainly going to be white aluminum powder...ours had that. We had to replace panels cause of it. In fact we had our bus down to the frame to fix the rust, so yeah, try to avoid that if you can...was this coach ever in fleet service? If not, it may not be too bad at all, but if so, please do crawl under the drivers seat/spare tire area. If you like what you see, go for it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 18, 2016, 08:18:09 PM
Really ? .... So haggling a $15K discount on a $20K bus.... I highly doubt that is going to happen....
The asking price for the bus in the picture is $30,000, not $20,000, and yes, haggling can occur when you point out the cost of deficiencies. A bus is only worth what someone in their informed mind thinks it is worth and is actually going to pay for it. It is a buyers market currently, and if a sale is going to happen, sellers need to be flexible. You might not get a $15,000 discount, but it is prudent to try every bargaining angle possible. It will be a lot of work to get that coach's paint looking good whether it is done by prisoners or over the border (or both).
Quote from: jackhanow on April 18, 2016, 12:39:06 PM
So is it a worth while bus, was the question. I believe these folks were just trying to get some advice on a big decision.
Yes, that is the main question alright, but when evaluating a bus you should not be deceived as to what model bus you are getting or what year it was originally manufactured in. If indeed a Model 05 bus built in the 1970's is being presented as a 1980's Model 10, the buyer should know that. The current condition is critical, but there should be no misconception of what it really is. Someone new to getting into buses can be easily tricked, and it is not responsible for us to not say something about it.
Quote from: jackhanow on April 18, 2016, 11:32:41 PM
It's best to look at the front under the drivers seat. Check that area. It's either good or bad. Trust me. Look at the back wall of the rear compartment and check the bottom of the walls where they are rivited to the floor braces. If the aluminum is eaten then the steel is worse. The stuff outside is not the problem it's on the inside that tells all. Look under it make sure the support on the bottom aren't sagging or flattened. make sure the sides are smooth even and not krinkleing especially above the rear axel. Bulging rivits are a bad sign as well. Look at the brackets that attach the sides to the main support beam under the floor. Check at the floor from underneath at every place you can look. If you can spot heavy rust at the easy places to look then is probably worse where you can't look. I knew this bus had rust issues but I bought it anyway because it's been worth the things it's taught me to look for as I decide my next bus. This one drives great. Even in a cross wind. Most 2 strokes leak oil. Especially when idling or from idling. Auto is the way to go. Especially in traffic. Check tread wear look for cupping or side wear. The blower gear box is probably just over full. They stop leaking when the level get back to normal. Hard to see when filling it and the level plug don't come out easy so they just dump some in for good measure. They think when it quits leaking it's out of oil. Sometimes sight glasses play tricks too. You look it's full, you go back the next morn says empty but you can't find the leak. You stop at the next truck stop, get the lube, open the door and it's full. This happens on both my buses so now I don't believe them and just keep an eye on stuff. Best just start looking at buses you see around you. Just to get a feel of what to look for. Be picky. It's a large machine with a lot of moving parts and they are big as well.
Good advice. I would add that the corrosion under the dash can lead to a lot of air leaks that will keep you hotter in the summer and cooler in the winter if they are not repaired or sealed. The outside appearance is not as important as the guts of the bus, but it does have importance in pride of ownership and what your non-mechanical spouse thinks of the bus, and then there are those snooty campgrounds that decide they are filled for the night when they are not.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 19, 2016, 06:07:57 AM
The asking price for the bus in the picture is $30,000, not $20,000, and yes, haggling can occur when you point out the cost of deficiencies. A bus is only worth what someone in their informed mind thinks it is worth and is actually going to pay for it. It is a buyers market currently, and if a sale is going to happen, sellers need to be flexible. You might not get a $15,000 discount, but it is prudent to try every bargaining angle possible. It will be a lot of work to get that coach's paint looking good whether it is done by prisoners or over the border (or both).
will you haggle for the buyer ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on April 18, 2016, 08:32:16 PM
LMAO
Where do live in Houston I plan on letting the convicts at (TCI) Ellis Unit in Huntsville do mine when the time comes ;D they work cheap
I live very close to the Ellis unit actually. Found this link on the Bus Refurbishment that TDCJ offers however it appears it's only for city/county/government and select non-profits. See link here: http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx (http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx)
If they are not busy they work you in I have a friend they painted his bus damn good paint job looks like the prep work was well done.
I drove 65 miles each way from Magnolia to the Ellis in 1983 for 6 months when we were building the Ellis Unit
Jack, Great pointers and things to look over. Thank you.
DoubleEagle Eagle19952, do you want the job?!!!
DoubleEagle, great points and thank you for your contributions.
Any chance any of you are located close to Christiansburg, VA (MCI 102a3) or Phoenix, AZ (two GMC 6905's)? If so I would be ever so grateful to have a second set of eyes looking over a bus and we can discuss payment for your time.
Thanks everyone
I'll be back in Phoenix next week I can peek at the 4905's for you I know a little bit about a GM bus, or I can put you in contact with Kevin who owns a diesel repair shop in the Phoenix area and a bus owner his self.You do know I hope the 4905 brake drums are almost impossible to find I am looking for some rear drums now for 1 and I am not having any luck. The 4905 is a nice bus but me just for parts I would go with a MCI
Clifford try these guys. They are here in West Sacramento, CA. if you get stuck and no other way they have a lot of older stuff to include DD3 cans. HTH
Dave ;D
http://www.capitol-clutch.com/ (http://www.capitol-clutch.com/)
Per this thread is seemed some alternatives for sourcing the brake drums had been found, is this inaccurate? http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=29556.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=29556.0)
I am going to call the Ellis unit and check on the possibility of having a bus painted, it might make the 1990 MCI 102a3 more practical if the body could be repaired and painted for a reasonable cost.
lubrbus, do you know which days you will be in Phoenix next week? Thanks ;-)
my 1990 mci 102c3 has satin coat galvanized steel siding and I replaced some of the skin on the passenger side over the rear wheels due to bubbles of rust
there was not very much rust on my coach and was easy to repair
if I would do it again I would look at the newest coach with a auto trans. and newer electronic engine that I could afford
just me but $20,000 for a bus and $20,000 for a paint job ? I would spend $ 40,000 for a newer bus
you can buy my bus that is in mint condition for $ 65,000 and drive it for thousand's of miles
http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=2115 (http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=2115)
dave
Dave, thank you for the offer. Looks like a really nice bus however we really want a dedicated bed for each child that is theirs. However if DoubleEagle could negotiate a hefty discount on your bus we will find six foot of wall space somewhere in there to install three bunks!!
If you come across any newer buses with auto transmission and electronic engine with bunks or a easy spot to install bunks please pass on the information. Many thanks everyone.
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 19, 2016, 06:05:22 PM
Dave, thank you for the offer. Looks like a really nice bus however we really want a dedicated bed for each child that is theirs. However if DoubleEagle could negotiate a hefty discount on your bus we will find six foot of wall space somewhere in there to install three bunks!!
If you come across any newer buses with auto transmission and electronic engine with bunks or a easy spot to install bunks please pass on the information. Many thanks everyone.
Here I go! Well, this is a fine MCI, no doubt about it, the engine is even painted a leak proof color, but since you are north of Toronto, has the ice thawed from under the bus yet? The only thing I think it needs is some privacy curtains for the outside laundry area, some garments are private. It seems set up for two people primarily, so having dedicated spaces for kids would be difficult. The price seems appropriate if you consider it to be in Canadian dollars ($65,000 US is $82566.24 Canadian), that is a discount of $17566.24 Canadian. How's that?
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 18, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
Here is another pic I found looks like it may be the "white aluminum oxide" you referenced DoubleEagle.
That is it, alright. After you sandblast and/or chemical strip, you will have a rough texture that will have to be filled. There might even be perforations, and you have the complication of rivets to sand around. Very time consuming to repair or replace. It puts a dent in value if you want a professional looking paint job.
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 19, 2016, 10:59:02 AM
I live very close to the Ellis unit actually. Found this link on the Bus Refurbishment that TDCJ offers however it appears it's only for city/county/government and select non-profits. See link here: http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx (http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx)
They still want thousands of dollars to paint a bus, and they do not state what kind of paint it is. It might not be a urethane base coat/clear coat.
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 19, 2016, 08:32:04 AM
will you haggle for the buyer ;D
Yes, but for Eagles only, I am partial to them.
There are places around that will paint a bus 1 color for 4 to 5 grand with the 1 stage paint,the no feel graphics and blending is where it starts running into big money.
One color is fine for me BTDT with all the blending and graphics on the Eagle that Matt owns now by the time my wife and Mike Wilson finished I was into the paint job for 17 grand back in 2001 beautiful job but 5 grand is my limit this time around ;D
FWIW if the base is not lifting Mike can usually re clear coat the bus and save the paint job
I have a wood shop and as my son puts it we can build any thing .... so if you need bunks we can do that
dave
On stacking the kids 3 high...
That was my bright idea too.... until I mocked up a bunk in the bus with the correct dimensions.
The kids did not like how little vertical space they each had.
That was in a stock MC8, a newer coach gets you a couple inches to share between them, and a roof raise gives you a bit more, depending...
And kids get bigger WAY quicker than your dreams of traveling together.
If the kids are unhappy, guess which way momma bear is going to go....
build a mock-up, save yourself?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
After reading here for a bit... Question.
Is pristine paint your most important consideration when purchasing a bus....?
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 20, 2016, 01:48:37 PM
After reading here for a bit... Question.
Is pristine paint your most important consideration when purchasing a bus....?
Just re read all the posts and I do mention paint often. Short answer is no but it would be something addressed sooner than later. I wouldn't want neighbors to complain nor would I want to receive frequent turn aways at rv parks. I would also want to be proud of my bus!
Here are four buses in no order we are looking at now, the same two originals and one more of each.
1. 1990 MCI 102A3 $29,995, Virginia : https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html (https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html) (has some known leaks on the engine, transmission, not sure of engine condition, some gauges not working, but upgraded very nicely, if I purchase this bus it will be taken to Choo Choo for repairs if they are available)
2. 1977 GMC 4905A $21,000, Arizona : http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html) (Love the look of this bus and the inside, inside would be relatively easy to update/upgrade but only a single roof air and the paint could be freshened up by that fellow on the Mexican side of the border at Yuma, AZ or maybe some prisoners at the Ellis unit)
3. 1970 GMC 4905A asking $12,500, Arizona: http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5541752314.html. (http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5541752314.html.) newer 8V71 with Allison Auto Transmission, needs a few things done and no bunk beds but great price with good engine so bunks could be put in (I think) and other items addressed.
4. 1988 MCI 102a3 $25,000, Oklahoma: http://tulsa (http://tulsa) .craigslist.org/rvs/5496707811.htm two bunks, engine had top overhaul 90,000 miles ago, showing 850,000 miles, bus ac needs to be serviced.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 19, 2016, 07:57:20 PM
Here I go! Well, this is a fine MCI, no doubt about it, the engine is even painted a leak proof color, but since you are north of Toronto, has the ice thawed from under the bus yet? The only thing I think it needs is some privacy curtains for the outside laundry area, some garments are private. It seems set up for two people primarily, so having dedicated spaces for kids would be difficult. The price seems appropriate if you consider it to be in Canadian dollars ($65,000 US is $82566.24 Canadian), that is a discount of $17566.24 Canadian. How's that?
Walter, I'm disappointed! I use to live in Calgary i can tell you about cold! Very nice bus but more than I want to spend immediately. Thanks for trying.
Quote from: buswarrior on April 20, 2016, 10:56:45 AM
On stacking the kids 3 high...
That was my bright idea too.... until I mocked up a bunk in the bus with the correct dimensions.
The kids did not like how little vertical space they each had.
That was in a stock MC8, a newer coach gets you a couple inches to share between them, and a roof raise gives you a bit more, depending...
And kids get bigger WAY quicker than your dreams of traveling together.
If the kids are unhappy, guess which way momma bear is going to go....
build a mock-up, save yourself?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
BusWarrior beat me to it, I agree completely. Not only is the vertical space limited, you have to be prepared to roll into the bunk whatever the position is. Another key point is having individual lights in each, a small shelf or bin for small items like glasses, jewelry, etc., and ventilation for heat/AC. My 1984 Eagle Entertainer had twelve bunks originally; I have cut it down to six in order to add a second bathroom for grand-kids. In the case of an entertainer coach there is usually a combination electric furnace/AC that is controlled by a thermostat just like at home. There are ducts that distribute the air throughout the coach, and there is a fresh air intake as well. All of that might be hard to handle in a coach with roof airs. On a hot humid night with the engine still giving off heat, good clean cool air is desirable in each of the bunks, especially if there are privacy curtains on each bunk. If the musicians and road crew guys can roll in these bunks and sleep, so can the kids
if they are not claustrophobic. It would help sell the idea if the kids knew about all of the adults associated with the music groups sleeping in such bunks all the time. (They might not be as happy as the star in the rear stateroom or even the separate coach all by their selves, but thousands of people have done it). Yes, you must keep the baby bears and momma bears happy.
I don't see anything on the a3 that the neighbors could complain about. If it's not too rusty underneath then I think it would be a good bus. By the looks it was done by someone that knew what they were doing. I have 2 buses and only a 1/4 acre lot. And when the mayor asked me about them, I told him they are both registered and insured and they both run and drive. He said ok and got in his car and left saying they were mad because the one was so big. Form the street you have be be next to them on my property to see them. Have forest service on 2 sides. Gives me a 5 million acre yard. Nice thing about living in a bus is you always get new neighbors. I don't think I've seen anybody poke and scrape paint at any RV parks and refuse entry for those little blemishes. Oil leaks maybe. Smoke billowing maybe. Block heater helps with that. Abstract paint jobs are biggest refusal point. Oh don't worry, even if it's a work of art bus, the neighbors are gonna talk and one is gonna go to the town or HOA.
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 20, 2016, 04:35:58 PM
Just re read all the posts and I do mention paint often. Short answer is no but it would be something addressed sooner than later. I wouldn't want neighbors to complain nor would I want to receive frequent turn aways at rv parks. I would also want to be proud of my bus!
Here are four buses in no order we are looking at now, the same two originals and one more of each.
1. 1990 MCI 102A3 $29,995, Virginia : https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html (https://www.sawyersbussales.com/-90-mci-102a3--bus---741.html) (has some known leaks on the engine, transmission, not sure of engine condition, some gauges not working, but upgraded very nicely, if I purchase this bus it will be taken to Choo Choo for repairs if they are available)
2. 1977 GMC 4905A $21,000, Arizona : http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html (http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/5474051463.html) (Love the look of this bus and the inside, inside would be relatively easy to update/upgrade but only a single roof air and the paint could be freshened up by that fellow on the Mexican side of the border at Yuma, AZ or maybe some prisoners at the Ellis unit)
3. 1970 GMC 4905A asking $12,500, Arizona: http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5541752314.html. (http://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5541752314.html.) newer 8V71 with Allison Auto Transmission, needs a few things done and no bunk beds but great price with good engine so bunks could be put in (I think) and other items addressed.
4. 1988 MCI 102a3 $25,000, Oklahoma: http://tulsa (http://tulsa) .craigslist.org/rvs/5496707811.htm two bunks, engine had top overhaul 90,000 miles ago, showing 850,000 miles, bus ac needs to be serviced.
Don't see anywhere near 10-15K $ possible discounts on these.. :)
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 21, 2016, 10:12:29 AM
Don't see anywhere near 10-15K $ possible discounts on these.. :)
I agree I think the price for both is pretty good. Perhaps a little lower on the GMC 4905 only due to the age of the coach and not as updated as the MCI but he says he is firm at $21,000.
I can look at the GM in Laveen next week for you if you like but that bus has set in the AZ heat for years you will need to replace all the foam.I think 21 grand is a little steep no telling what needs replacing from the 120 degree heat
Quote from: luvrbus on April 21, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
I can look at the GM in Laveen next week for you if you like but that bus has set in the AZ heat for years you will need to replace all the foam.I think 21 grand is a little steep no telling what needs replacing from the 120 degree
That is a generous offer, that will help him decide better than looking at any pictures. If that bus has not been used much and has been cooking in the sun, that firm $21,000 could melt away. Many of us have spent big bucks and lots of time working on these buses and we hate to see that value evaporate over time, but it does, and we have to be flexible. Time takes a toll on seals, gaskets, and tires whether they are used or not. If a visual inspection reveals problems that cost money do not be afraid to offer less. What do you think a bus dealer would offer for an old bus if you were to trade it in? Not much, wholesale or less. By the way, I hope our fellow bus nut in Canada was not too insulted by my suggesting knocking off $17,000 Canadian; it appears to be a solid bus that was not cooking in the sun, and I was under pressure to come up with a discount.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 21, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
I can look at the GM in Laveen next week for you if you like but that bus has set in the AZ heat for years you will need to replace all the foam.I think 21 grand is a little steep no telling what needs replacing from the 120 degree heat
Thank you so much, very very kind and generous of you. Please let me know how I can repay you. Here is some write ups from the owner:
"I have had the bus since 1995 and finished the conversion in 1997. It is very dependable and ready to go anywhere. But will need the front two tires replaced and even though they are 90% Michelin's they now have some cracks, Still good under 65mph, but I would replace them soon. The air bags are excellent and I have replaced them as needed, It will need two battery's since I have not used the bus in years only to take it to and from mexico. But it starts right up even with two car battery's as is what I de every few months to keep it running good. I built it with the best of materials. The 3 bunks will sleep adults and have drawers under one and two small closets with a fire proof safe good size for your valuables.
Here first is a little oak table just behind the driver seat. Also is the fire proof safe under a closet floor in back bedroom. Then other bunk bed and fridge. Next foto is the day I got home with the bus from Kansas. I bought it from a guy who sells these buses and he bought it from New Jersey. You can see it has 3 big cargo bay, the biggest of any bus and I use to put 2 Honda 3 wheel ATC's in two of these plus a 50cc honda cycle and our Bar be que grill inside. Has 125 gallon water tanks, One fresh and one waste. Next is a foto the brochure when I brought it back from mexico 3 years ago and put it on consignment, but they started it at $50,000 and I wanted $35,000 back then, Just thought I'd put that in. Then is bus as it is painted and one shows the 21 ft beautiful awning, Cost me $1000 and I like how the arms fold up not show when not in use. Another foto of the bathroom and upper driver console. Steering wheel and more. Has Sheppard power steering. The bus will need the front break chamber to be replaced as they leak some air and more so the 4 air hoses that connect to it. I replaced the expensive one at $1000. ea back ones and also replaced all 6 hoses with new ones. The front only have 4 total. And also the control for the solar power also has to be replaced and cost $45. It has a 100 watts solar power to keep the batteries charged. Has a gas Makita 5500 watts both electric and pull start that is portable with handle bars and wheels I put if you want to take out of but for other things. Had a electric water heater and 35000 BTU gas furnace to heat the coach. Has ducks to the bedroom, kitchen and living room. Has a 2600 watt power inverter that run with the bus engine on from alternator to run the air, lights and all when driving down the road. It has both air ride and air brakes , Brakes are about 90% and good. I had all the front and back radius rod bushing replaced and goes down the road good. Has a 4 speed manual and wet clutch which mean you never have to replace the clutch. It is expected to last the life of the engine. The two front cargo bays are empty except for the middle one that has a water tank of 16 wide across door to door. When both sides of cargo bay are open it is through, no walls to block and is 39 inches tall. The rear cargo bay has the electric water heater, one water tank, and 2 water pumps, water pressure tank and room for many tools and tool boxes I put. And it goes with the 1" impact wrench in case you have to change a tire on the road. This cost $100"s and has saved me $100"s and has a like new Good Year spare which is in front just behind the front bumper. Two bolts come out and the bumper is on hinges which fold down. Some people put a generator there too. The rear tires are Firestone and have about 90% rubber and no crack. These firestone I found last longer and don't blow out or separate like the Michelin's or other tires do. The engine has never let us down and is very dependable a 8V-71 detroit diesel, no turbo, super charged blower. I built this bus for family use and it has made many good memories."
A couple more pictures.
The GMC is worth checking out, the power steering is a plus, the manual transmission is still not, and I fail to see how one A/C will be enough to cool going down the road (especially in Texas). Maybe it cools the front area only, and the rear stays hot until you park.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 22, 2016, 06:56:38 AM
The GMC is worth checking out, the power steering is a plus, the manual transmission is still not, and I fail to see how one A/C will be enough to cool going down the road (especially in Texas). Maybe it cools the front area only, and the rear stays hot until you park.
DoubleEagle, I could add another one or two or three or .... A/C's could I not? I spoke last night to a remarkable man who has some video's of youtube of his GM 4106 bus the "Strayhound" and he went from a manual to an automatic and is thinking about going back to the manual. Yes harder to drive and have to get the feel of it but he would actually go back. Great video's by the way if your looking for something to watch including when he single handily replaced a section of the frame. He built the bus for his four kids and wife and toured the US just like my wife and I are wanting to do with our children.
I would check with the guy on the 4905 I bet it's only 30 amp service upgrading to 50 amps for 3 AC is a major task and expensive,any details on the generator ?
Yes, you can add A/C's, but that means opening up the ceiling to run wires, possibly getting a bigger generator, and needing to run it while going down the road. One inverter will not handle the load. Shifting has its virtues, it makes your left leg stronger, it reduces the possibility of someone stealing your coach, it might increase the fuel mileage a little bit, there is less cooling load, and you will feel satisfaction knowing that you can shift a Spicer up and down without grinding too much. If you get incapacitated for some reason, you might have trouble coaching your wife as to how to drive it. I do not know if there was an air-assist on the clutch for that model. Anyway, let Luvrbus check it out, and go by what he says. If you want to cruise this summer (and I know you do) you will need something ready to go. Adding A/C's and generator capacity will crimp your plans; it always takes longer than you think (twice/triple).
Just speaking to owner and he says the bus has a 30 amp connection to fit most rv parks but has big electrical box and 50 amp wiring. He says the bus has the roof air and a a/c split system in the rear but when driving can only run one a/c with the inverter but can run both while plugged in. Says both use 17 amps on a 20 amp breaker.
Also bus does not have a Jake brake, these seem to be highly recommended how difficult are they to install?
Jakes is a hotly debated subject on these boards. Many bus nuts will tell you that driving without Jakes is not safe and that they are indispensable. Look in the archives, you will find lots of threads about Jake brakes.
Jakes are sure nice to have, but not necessary. Engine brakes didn't show up on buses until the 1980s. Before that, we learned to drive without them. We went downhill slowly. We were trained to go down in the same gear that it took to go up. Do they make driving a bus safer? The only factor that makes driving safer is the driver, by using the engine brake as it was designed and intended. For example, I see transport trucks barreling down 8% grades at 70 miles an hour with the Jakes rattling away...
You have to be a bit of a mechanic to install them. Although it is not rocket surgery, if you have the manual with you. Look on the Jacobs and the Pacbrake sites for the installation manuals. Then you will need to do a tune up again on the engine. You need the Detroit service manual for that, and some tools.
The cost for the parts is in the $1000 to $3000 range if I remember some of the posts on that subject. Some of the parts are hard to find.
JC
You need to cut the tail gate to install Jakes on a 4905.Seems to me like you have your heart set on the 4905 in Phoenix so I will PM the dates when I going back.
I don't think you will like driving a 4905 they ride and most drive ok not great but ok, the 50 ft turning radius on a 4905 sucks and they love to take out signs on the drivers side or my 20ft wide gate (twice) by 4905 owners lol
Quote from: luvrbus on April 22, 2016, 12:28:55 PM
You need to cut the tail gate to install Jakes on a 4905.Seems to me like you have your heart set on the 4905 in Phoenix so I will PM the dates when I going back.
I don't think you will like driving a 4905 they ride and most drive ok not great but ok, the 50 ft turning radius on a 4905 sucks and they love to take out signs on the drivers side or my 20ft wide gate (twice) by 4905 owners lol
I am not sold on the 4905 but I like the design and the overall conversion that this guy did on his. The front living room would be nice to update and perhaps update the counter back splash in the kitchen but everything else design wise is perfect for my family and it has style! I am not opposed to something else either and just found this 1987 MCI Conversion located in Ames, Iowa for an asking price of $38,000: http://desmoines.craigslist.org/rvs/5534373518.html (http://desmoines.craigslist.org/rvs/5534373518.html)
It's a nice bus and I have not seen one setup like this but it has two bunks and the whole tightness of three bunks and mama bear argument to think about. Perhaps the wife and I get the two bunks and we put three/four bunks in the rear instead? Any idea what model this is? It looks like a MCI 96A3 however it has those skylights above the side windows which is unique and has no Tag axle.
Nice looking bus. Looks like a 96A2 (2 axles). All the buses I drove for Brewster's in the 70s had sky-view glass in the roof like this bus. And my Courier 96 had them too. We loved them, and hated them. Lots of light. You can look out when standing up. They leak when it rains. New rubber might help if they do. Although I remember them leaking on brand new MC8s ! I used to mark the leaks, then caulk them after it dried up. They are very hot in the summer. I had outside covers for them that snapped on. And inside blinds that went on with Velcro. I see this bus has inside insulating material on them. So you end up leaving the covers on inside and out most of the time. And they still leak... On my Courier 96, I was going to remove them and fill them in with sheet metal and insulation. I sold that bus before getting into that project. This bus might be nice enough that you could deal with the sky-views one way or the other.
Oh and I am an MCI guy. I hope you get an MCI ;)
JC
lostagain
Thanks for the info on the MCI 96a2 bus! It's a good looking bus but they do have all the sky views covered up so it must be hot like you say it was/is. Hot and Leaky are two very big items with that bus and would be useful info to negotiate a lower price. Perhaps this is the reason they are selling and why they purchased a Prevost. I would love to purchase an MCI but it needs that specific setup for all five of us (three kids and wife and I). I am starting to think perhaps I should just buy the best gutted bus I can find and design/setup the interior ourselves. I like the design of the MCI 96a2 and changing the back room to three bunks like the GMC 4905 in Phoenix would be an awesome setup for us.
Thanks again everyone for putting up with me and my family's search for a bus, appreciate you all.
The Iowa MCI has a nice layout, the kitchen layout is very pleasant, but it has all the side windows and extra skylights that will let a lot of heat in, and will be a leak problem, plus only two bunks. I have never driven a 4905 GMC, but a 50' turn circle is more than other coaches the same length. The fact that another A/C is there helps, but apparently it can only be used with the other A/C when parked and hooked up to 50 Amp. The inverter and the generator can't do both, it looks like.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 22, 2016, 07:22:25 AM
I would check with the guy on the 4905 I bet it's only 30 amp service upgrading to 50 amps for 3 AC is a major task and expensive,any details on the generator ?
Luvrbus,
Here is the info on the generator:" It has a 100 watts solar power to keep the batteries charged. Has a gas Makita 5500 watts both electric and pull start that is portable with handle bars and wheels I put if you want to take out of but for other things."
The 4905 bus in Mohave did you install that engine for or with Bill or was that your engine? He said he bought it from the president of a West Coast Bus Club and it has super low miles. If I could find a really good and reasonable carpenter perhaps that bus could be changed up to accommodate us all like the Phoenix 4905 is setup. It has the new(er) or (low mile) engine, automatic transmission, jake brake, sheppard steering???, and a real generator if I recall correctly.
Could be a good starting basis and with an asking price of $12,500 perhaps we get that one redone??? What do you all think?
Link: https://mohave.craigslist.org/rvs/5541752314.html
I did all the change over from std to automatic the engine came from a standard transmission bus his was a 730 and installed the Jakes I did a lot of things replaced all the hoses we had the alternator and starter rebuilt changed the oil pan gasket from cork to paper rebuilt the fan drive to much to list like the updated fuel control tubes and blower drive .
Bill was the paint can guy lol he was always in the friggn way with a paint can.The engine checked out good when I pulled the heads one was seeping oil so I fixed it it has all new gaskets only problems I know of and he probably has that fix it had a over charging glitch (24v system) he was in charge of the wiring.
It has air to oil cooling for the transmission with fans.Cooling should not be a problem it had a new larger radiator when he bought because the original engine was a turbo 8v71 I still have the old engine.
Bill went back with a N/A I would have rebuilt the 8V71T myself but it was his call.One other thing I ran a compression test all was fine but that engine is a bear to start when the temps are below 50F to 40F without the block heater some DD are like that.
Bill is a neat freak so I am sure he has taken every precaution to protect the bus he just battles a bad @$# health problem but he keeps going.The generator is a older Onan diesel but runs good.
FWIW a friggn salesman blew the engine up driving from Ca to the dealer here where Bill bought the bus.I spoke with PO several times the only reason he got rid of the bus was his wife wanted slides, he had owned the bus for 20 years "that's all folks" but I THINK that should be a good bus.There should be a photo of the engine floating around on either the BNO or this board I know there is one on my F/B page if you do the F/B thing
I just was looking on craigslist and spotted that Boston Iowa as well laugh out loud and I was going to post it here for you guys too I thought it might make a nice conversion but I agree with your concerns about the skylights I'll keep looking :-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Luvrbus,
Thank you for the background on Bill's bus. It sounds like a good candidate for a bus "re-conversion"! My wife and I don't do the facebook thing although it seems we might be getting pulled in sooner or later as my two boys Grayden (7) and Heath (5) are now in school and a whole lot is scheduled/setup/shared on facebook.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback of the Phoenix 4905 and if good I will fly out and look at both Bill's and the one in Phoenix and possibly look at the MCI 102a3 in Virginia then purchase one of the three. The seller of the Phoenix bus told me tonight that a fellow by the name of Phil Humbert sold him the bus and Phil has plenty of spare parts for the 4905's. I am going to call Phil tomorrow and check on parts availability and what he remembers of this particular 4905.
I see from your signature line that you enjoy "good wine", if you would share a good shipping address my wife and I would love to send you a nice gift or some how show our appreciation to you for your help. Please let us know and thank you once again.
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 24, 2016, 07:59:53 PM
I just was looking on craigslist and spotted that Boston Iowa as well laugh out loud and I was going to post it here for you guys too I thought it might make a nice conversion but I agree with your concerns about the skylights I'll keep looking :-)
Scott, thank you so much. It is a cool looking bus with some style and a very unique layout from all the other buses I have seen. Thank God for forums and those who participate to share knowledge as this bus piqued our interest initially until we started getting feedback from lostagain and doubleeagle concerning the heat and leaking.
Unless another bus shows itself soon I think we may be looking at one of the AZ 4905's or the VA MCI 102a3. Looking forward to getting either a positive or negative review of the Phoenix 4905 from luvrbus so it can be either scratched off the list or kept and then make a decision. Bill's bus in Mohave sounds really good since luvrbus did all the recent work to it and the price would allow us to essentially perform a re-conversion to some areas to get us beds for the kids and my wife and I. Bill only had so many pictures so it's going to require a trip there to actually walk the bus to see how much would need to be reconfigured.
Thanks
Depending on what needs to be fixed on the Virginia MCI, that might be your best bet for something ready to go. Do not be afraid to offer less money, all they can say is no. It might cost thousands to correct the minor things that need fixing. Most of us never regret paying too little, but the other way around burns for years. How long the coach has been for sale can affect their willingness to deal.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 25, 2016, 06:36:03 AM
Depending on what needs to be fixed on the Virginia MCI, that might be your best bet for something ready to go. Do not be afraid to offer less money, all they can say is no. It might cost thousands to correct the minor things that need fixing. Most of us never regret paying too little, but the other way around burns for years. How long the coach has been for sale can affect their willingness to deal.
DoubleEagle, here is the list for the MCI 102a3:
Location IssueBody Paint Poor Condition / Clear Coat peeling off.
Body Question of corrosion at end of stripes on exterior of bus - this material appears to be galvalume, (galvanized/ aluminum)which may corrode, but didn't notice any holes. Appears to be just paint bubbled. However I tried to get a good pic of the other paint on the bus. The paint is peeling all over the bus. It looks like just the clear coat layer, but since the back is bubbled, it may be easier to just repaint the whole bus.
Engine Oil leak also appears to be from a leak at the Turbo Intake.
Engine Oil leak appears to be coming from a leak at the Fan Drive Gear Box
Engine Oil leak at the 3 lb oil pressure Sensor at manifold.
Gauges "Not Gen" tell tale alert flickers constantly when driving. This could be minor wiring, regulator, alternator, or possible other issues.
Gauges Oil Pressure Gauge Not working per owner write up.
Gauges Speedometer not working at low speeds and is not accurate at speeds above 45 mph.
Gauges Temperature Gauge Not working per owner write up.
Interior Extra bunk added under existing 2 bunks, including re-spacing existing 2 bunks.
Safety Tag Light needs to be rewired - Doesn't work.
Transmission Transmission Hose on Right Top leaking at fitting.
Transmission Transmission shifts rough during 10 mile drive. This is not unusual for this type transmission, until it gets the fluid warmer. It's was only around 50 degrees when trying it out. Maybe after driving for 30 miles or so, it could possibly get better. Then again, it may not.
I will PM you as well a question. Thanks
Quote from: luvrbus on April 19, 2016, 11:25:13 AM
I'll be back in Phoenix next week I can peek at the 4905's for you I know a little bit about a GM bus, or I can put you in contact with Kevin who owns a diesel repair shop in the Phoenix area and a bus owner his self.You do know I hope the 4905 brake drums are almost impossible to find I am looking for some rear drums now for 1 and I am not having any luck. The 4905 is a nice bus but me just for parts I would go with a MCI
All/Luvrbus,
I spoke with Phil Humbert (952-657-2140) today regarding the Phoenix 4905a bus. He sold (traded) the bus to the current owner back in 1995. He remembers the owner well as he traded the bus for a corvette and has sold the owner parts over the years. Phil said the owner is the "fussiest" individual he has ever dealt with and is incredibly skilled and very very picky. When I asked Phil about parts availability he said he could get me any part I wanted with no issues. I asked if he would still be in business in ten years and his reply was I am almost 80 and not sure I will still be here but my son knows the business and will be running it.
So with that said what do you all think?
Luvrbus perhaps Phil has the rear drums you are looking for??
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 19, 2016, 10:59:02 AM
I live very close to the Ellis unit actually. Found this link on the Bus Refurbishment that TDCJ offers however it appears it's only for city/county/government and select non-profits. See link here: http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx (http://www.tci.tdcj.state.tx.us/services/bus.aspx)
All, spoke with the Ellis unit using the link above today and they are no longer painting buses effective September 1, 2015, specifically they said they will not paint anything with a motor so they are limited to trailers now. The guy indicated I should (and I will) check with Lee College which is college for TDCJ (Texas Department Criminal Justice) and specifically the Eastham or Michael Units both have body shops and may be willing to do repairs through Lee College. I will update all when I obtain additional information for these two units.
Thanks
Those 2 are in the Baytown,Liberty or Dayton area I presume since Lee is a Baytown Collage,that will work for me we own property in Anahuac and getting the bus ready now for our Texas trip to central TX and the gulf coast before it gets to hot so thanks I will check at Lee while in that area
Lee College is located in Baytown however they have an arrangement with TDCJ to educate the prisoners.
The Eastham unit is near Weldon however it has a Lovelady address: 2665 Prison Road 1, Lovelady, TX 75851
The Michael unit is west of Palestine: 2664 FM 2054, Tennessee Colony, TX 75886
Luvrbus if you arrange to drop off your bus at either unit I would be more then happy to pick you up and take you back to Anahuac and then back to the prison when your bus is completed and ready for pickup. I didn't get a chance today to confirm these two units would perform work on a private individuals bus but I hope too tomorrow and will post what I find. If not at the prison the college in Baytown may be looking for projects for the students to work on. Thanks and the seller of the 4905 in Phoenix is back home from Mexico, I will PM you his number if your offer to check out the bus is still open. Thanks.