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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Zephod on July 28, 2015, 08:38:46 PM

Title: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on July 28, 2015, 08:38:46 PM
I need to put an external power connection on my bus conversion. What kind of connector do I need in order to connect at campsites? Do I need a cable?
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Iceni John on July 29, 2015, 07:49:23 AM
Most folk here use the Marinco stainless-steel inlets, pricy but good quality.   For a lot less money Furrion makes some decent stainless power inlets  -  they look nicer and they're well made (I've got two of them).   It's just up to you to decide if you want/need 30A or 50A.   Don't waste your money on the cheap plastic RV inlets  -  after a few years in the sun they get brittle and break.

John
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: eagle19952 on July 29, 2015, 09:07:12 AM
hard wire your cord to your bus... makes it way harder to steal....

just fit a plug to the end.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: bevans6 on July 29, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
I use a Marinco.  Way easier to store, and thieves have bolt cutters.

Brian
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: TomC on July 29, 2015, 09:49:53 PM
I have a 4 wire #6 cord that is hard wired to my circuit breaker box. It has the RV type 4 prong big plug for 50 amps. Since my bus is wired straight 120vac, I only use one side of the 50 amp-which still gives me 6,000watts. If for some reason one leg gives out, I can switch to the other leg easily. I really like not having to worry about "Balancing the load". So much so, I'm wiring my truck the same way again. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: eagle19952 on July 30, 2015, 08:19:32 AM
Quote from: bevans6 on July 29, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
I use a Marinco.  Way easier to store, and thieves have bolt cutters.

Brian

Do what Brian said... it will only cost you another $200.00 - $300.00 ....  you'll need a hole saw too ... ::)

http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-Guest-AFI-Nicro-6373ELB/dp/B008F8ZQ9E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1438270555&sr=8-11&keywords=marinco+stainless+steel+boat+inlet (http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-Guest-AFI-Nicro-6373ELB/dp/B008F8ZQ9E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1438270555&sr=8-11&keywords=marinco+stainless+steel+boat+inlet)

http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-6364CRV-Amp-Female-Connector/dp/B002UC4X2W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1438270739&sr=8-6&keywords=marinco+50+amp (http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-6364CRV-Amp-Female-Connector/dp/B002UC4X2W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1438270739&sr=8-6&keywords=marinco+50+amp)
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: bevans6 on July 30, 2015, 09:27:55 AM
I had no idea they had gotten that expensive!  I thought the plug and socket was like $50.  I would probably go hardwired at this stage of the game too, but mine came with the bus for free!   ;D

Brian

Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: sledhead on July 30, 2015, 02:45:35 PM
I used a cord like this one and cut 3 ' off to use as my gene plug it was less money then to buy the regular plug cord ???

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-locking-powercord-plus-rv-cordset-50/72111 (http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-locking-powercord-plus-rv-cordset-50/72111)

dave
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on July 30, 2015, 05:07:16 PM
Holy Hell, $114 for a power cable!

How long do I really need my cable to be?
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: scanzel on July 31, 2015, 03:39:31 AM
I bought a 50' cord because sometimes depending on how you park at campgrounds the power pedistal is not close and you don't want to keep adding extensions on to a too short cord. I put a twist lock end on mine and it feeds through the bay floor into a Furrion twistlock. A connector on the side of the bus is nice but easier to steal your cord it they want it. Mine is 50' because when I park next to my garage I need to run it around the back to the power box attached to the garage.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: chessie4905 on July 31, 2015, 03:50:30 AM
There are going to be a time where you could use a longer cord.......
Buy an rv extension cord of the length you can afford now. Cut off plug end with a couple of feet of cord attached. Connect this to your electrical panel or junction box in bay. Purchase a new plug for the extension cord. Install a closeable hole in bottom of bay. Route cable through this hole when in use. Keep cord to pigtail connection in bay out of inclement weather. Then you can get an extension cord when finances allow or needed down the road. I'd go with 50 amp now so you don't need to upgrade in future, plus less chance of overheating and connection degrading from high loads. Camco makes nice plugs and sockets for changing ends. They have nice pull handle assists on them also.
Title: Re:
Post by: eagle19952 on August 01, 2015, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: Zephod on July 30, 2015, 05:07:16 PM
Holy Hell, $114 for a power cable!

How long do I really need my cable to be?

ON SALE TODAY>>>

http://smile.amazon.com/Camco-55197-PowerGrip-Extension-Cord/dp/B004809YBE/ref=lp_12006996011_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1438443780&sr=1-5 (http://smile.amazon.com/Camco-55197-PowerGrip-Extension-Cord/dp/B004809YBE/ref=lp_12006996011_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1438443780&sr=1-5)
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: luvrbus on August 01, 2015, 09:20:24 AM
You don't need to pay that kinda of money for a Marinco plug they have 4 different models only difference is the way they connect on the back the 6373-B is the most expensive it's made for salt water and cable use you connect it slide the collar tighten it makes it air and water tight .

I just bought 2 from Global Marine for under a 100 bucks with shipping fwiw Cabela's sells the Marinco for 80 bucks.

I prefer the ones with the open back for ventilation and air circulation that is the one most RV's use as they don't use the cable from the fuse box  
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 03, 2015, 08:12:15 PM
Yay. Got a  power connector for the buys http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145 $15
Title: Re:
Post by: eagle19952 on September 03, 2015, 08:20:01 PM
Quote from: Zephod on September 03, 2015, 08:12:15 PM
Yay. Got a  power connector for the buys http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145) $15

thats wonderful....where is the female end ?
Title: Re:
Post by: belfert on September 04, 2015, 05:46:58 AM
Quote from: Zephod on September 03, 2015, 08:12:15 PM
Yay. Got a  power connector for the buys http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145) $15

What are going to do about covering the inlet?  Also, I doubt that is designed for exterior use.  A Marinco or similar inlet has a locking ring that helps weatherproof things and keeps the full weight of the cord from pulling on the contacts inside the outlet.

These on usually put on the exterior of the bus where they are exposed to the weather.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: kyle4501 on September 04, 2015, 07:13:46 AM
I don't like electrical connections exposed to rain, so I didn't want multiple cords if I could avoid it. I also wanted 50A service to my coach.

So, I got one of these for mine. Good quality & flexible. Hard wired to coach & to store it, I just wrap it around the cord brackets in the power entrance compartment. When camping, I only use what I need, but at home I need every inch.

ebay # 271506870461

I also have a 30A extension cord & some adapters, but I hope I never need them.

Do what works best for you. If you are like me, you will want to change/ improve it after a couple of uses. . . . .
Have fun !  ;D
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: LuckyChow on September 04, 2015, 12:20:38 PM
I stopped buying power cords off of Ebay after I bought a 50 amp cord that was so stiff in the winter, I could hardly coil it.  The covering was made of some plastic that wasn't very flexible when cold, unlike the cord it was replacing.  I can't tell the difference between them in pictures. 
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 04, 2015, 08:05:50 PM
What I'm doing is getting it sorted out to reregiser the bus as A motorhome. I might just have to build a box to house the socket.

I'm aiming now just to install two 110v sockets - one for the fridge and one for the microwave.
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 04, 2015, 08:12:50 PM
I'm aiming for 30 amps but building the system to handle 50 amps. I'll try to sort it so I can run off 15a too.
Title: Re:
Post by: eagle19952 on September 04, 2015, 08:53:11 PM
Quote from: Zephod on September 04, 2015, 08:12:50 PM
I'm aiming for 30 amps but building the system to handle 50 amps. I'll try to sort it so I can run off 15a too.

just buy an extra female cord cap/plug and use it as a "cover"...
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: chessie4905 on September 05, 2015, 04:17:17 AM
What make and model bus do you have? You need to list it on your signature.
Title: Re:
Post by: Oonrahnjay on September 05, 2015, 07:19:33 AM
Quote from: Zephod on September 04, 2015, 08:12:50 PM
I'm aiming for 30 amps but building the system to handle 50 amps. I'll try to sort it so I can run off 15a too.

    With most modern inverters, you can set a "maximum input amperage" through the control panel.  That way, if you are stuck someplace and the only plug available is 15Amp (like visiting a family member), you can set it for 12Amps (I'm conservative -- I'd always set about 20% below "theoretical") and not take a chance on tripping a breaker.  You can't run big A/conditioners or water heater, but you'll have enough power for your fridge and essential things.  By "load-shedding", you can run pretty much anything you want to for short periods (i.e. shut off everything else while you run your coffee maker or "The Management" uses her hair dryer -- but get her one with a max of 1200Watts).
    The very best is a "load sharing" inverter.  If you need 16Amp, it will pull 12Amp off the wire and 4Amp for a short period of time from your battery bank, then recharge the batteries when the load drops.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 05, 2015, 07:24:52 AM
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on September 05, 2015, 07:19:33 AM
    With most modern inverters, you can set a "maximum input amperage" through the control panel.  That way, if you are stuck someplace and the only plug available is 15Amp (like visiting a family member), you can set it for 12Amps (I'm conservative -- I'd always set about 20% below "theoretical") and not take a chance on tripping a breaker.  You can't run big A/conditioners or water heater, but you'll have enough power for your fridge and essential things.  By "load-shedding", you can run pretty much anything you want to for short periods (i.e. shut off everything else while you run your coffee maker or "The Management" uses her hair dryer -- but get her one with a max of 1200Watts).
    The very best is a "load sharing" inverter.  If you need 16Amp, it will pull 12Amp off the wire and 4Amp for a short period of time from your battery bank, then recharge the batteries when the load drops.
Neat! I didn't know such things existed. Now if the same setup could be used to charge the batteries while just the fridge is running, that would be perfect. It'd reduce the need for expensive solar panels.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 05, 2015, 10:59:51 AM
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 04, 2015, 08:53:11 PM
just buy an extra female cord cap/plug and use it as a "cover"...
I blundered and bought a sub panel with no main breaker. Then I realized it was a strength because now I can put a small main breaker box underneath the bus! Bonus its a 2 breaker box so if I put 15A breakers both sides, I switch one off when I'm on a 15a supply.

My internal wiring is all 10-2 which will handle 30A so there's a good margin of safety for my 15A sockets.

Each socket (there are 3) has its own breaker set at 15a. The sockets are 20a. One socket is riveted to the side of the breaker box as that's what the fridge plugs into and the fridge is in front of the sub panel.

There's room on the panel for 8 breakers so plenty space for expansion.

Wiring from the inlet to the underbody breaker will be 55a. Wiring from the underbody main breaker to the sub panel will be 55a too. The underbody wiring will be in steel conduit.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: chessie4905 on September 06, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
   You might want to consider liquid tite flex conduit. Although more costly, it will be easier for routing and metal conduit does not like water or salt if you get inti it.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on September 06, 2015, 05:55:16 PM
It's just something squirrel proof that I need. This is what it all looks like so far..(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F06%2Fa7cce0b1cb5026af2fa2bce337802e23.jpg&hash=5fd023303070345be8a5a122b47c288aa77bfe6f)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F06%2F5f83f257d7b1ab80ab29cd6ad44dab2c.jpg&hash=106c7f5a4807389fc3d06635fe134e5765ccfd5a)
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: chessie4905 on September 07, 2015, 03:38:23 AM
   Make sure to install a connecter where any wires go into box to protect them, although you probably already know that.
Title: Re: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 05:46:32 AM
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 07, 2015, 03:38:23 AM
   Make sure to install a connecter where any wires go into box to protect them, although you probably already know that.
I thought about it but don't think they'll get enough jogging to damage them. I might look for one along with cable fasteners on my next trip to Lowe's.

Right now I'm concentrating on getting the electrics to a point where I feel I can apply to reregiser my bus as a motor home.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: belfert on September 07, 2015, 06:37:11 AM
You absolutely need a cable clamp going into the panel.  Take the 15 minutes to do it right now, or you will eventually wear through the insulation and ground out the positive.  You'll be thinking you should have fixed it right in the first place when you realize you have to replace the entire run of wire after it wears through.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: easystreet on September 07, 2015, 07:58:34 AM
Taking a few extra minutes and dollars to do things up to snuff now will save you lots of backtracking later. Cable entrance fittings / clamps are cheap. Also if your unit burns down (hope that never happens) the insurance investigators wont start pointing to improper wiring as a way to weasel out of paying. Will help with selling the unit too if you decide to up grade.

I notice in the picture of the breaker panel that there is not a junction bar for the bare ground wires. You can buy these separately to add to the box. The ground bar that you would add would be attached / bonded to the housing. 
Neutrals and grounds should never be joined on the same bar in an RV. Also the neutral bar should never be bonded / have electrical continuity with the housing. Most new panels come with a screw to "bond" the neutral to the breaker box housing if it is needed for the intended application. You don't want to do this in this application. You want the metal structure of your coach to remain completely isolated from the hot and neutral sides of the AC electrical system.
I tend to think of RV's as the biggest electrical power tool you'll ever grab hold of. Happy wiring.
Title: Re: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 08:12:33 AM
Quote from: easystreet on September 07, 2015, 07:58:34 AM
Taking a few extra minutes and dollars to do things up to snuff now will save you lots of backtracking later. Cable entrance fittings / clamps are cheap. Also if your unit burns down (hope that never happens) the insurance investigators wont start pointing to improper wiring as a way to weasel out of paying. Will help with selling the unit too if you decide to up grade.

I notice in the picture of the breaker panel that there is not a junction bar for the bare ground wires. You can buy these separately to add to the box. The ground bar that you would add would be attached / bonded to the housing. 
Neutrals and grounds should never be joined on the same bar in an RV. Also the neutral bar should never be bonded / have electrical continuity with the housing. Most new panels come with a screw to "bond" the neutral to the breaker box housing if it is needed for the intended application. You don't want to do this in this application. You want the metal structure of your coach to remain completely isolated from the hot and neutral sides of the AC electrical system.
I tend to think of RV's as the biggest electrical power tool you'll ever grab hold of. Happy wiring.
Why isolated? I was going to earth the whole bus.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Oonrahnjay on September 07, 2015, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: easystreet on September 07, 2015, 07:58:34 AM... I tend to think of RV's as the biggest electrical power tool you'll ever grab hold of. Happy wiring. 

    A good philosophy.   And a good explanation of the theory of bonding and non-bonding in a vehicle, with info on the use of "house" electrical equipment in a vehicle -- thanks for that.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Oonrahnjay on September 07, 2015, 09:02:42 AM
    Hey, Zeph!  For a lot of good technical info on A/C current installation in a bus, see http://www.noshockzone.org/ (http://www.noshockzone.org/)  -- in one of his articles, Mike shows how you can have a copper rod driven into the ground and attached to the bus chassis and still have the possibility of severe (or even fatal) shock if someone outside touches the vehicle body (if there are problems to the setup of the elecrical system or wiring damage).  He also covers "shore cords", power outlets, etc. in rigorous technical detail.  I found it very helpful.

HTH,   BH   NC
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 09:33:59 AM
My tablet died as I was editing my response.
The two earth wires visible are going to be bolted to the bracket just by them that I riveted to the case
The next two earth wires will be screwed to the case with self drilling screws.
The whole bus will be earthed.

Good point about a sleeve for the main cable. I doubt I can get a small enough sleeve for the two socket cables yet to be installed.

Actually, I need to put sleeves on the main breaker too.

I'm designing this with safety in mind.
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
The main breaker will be inside what will become the house battery compartment. That compartment will eventually have batteries that will power internal fans, extraction fans and phone\tablet chargers.

The plugin for the side of the bus will be this http://www.ebay.com/itm/271909878145 and it'll probably not be plugged in via an access hatch on the side but from an underbody point. That keeps the rain off it! I might just plug a blank into it to keep it clean during travel if I don't out if behind an individual hatch.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 06:31:42 PM
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F07%2F09a2ee571c47f7a9e4ce3987c3cef5d7.jpg&hash=5b34003ad935d6df9d887d99507b997de51a7f3b)

Well, I didn't get enough done. I'm sore from being under the countertop in weird contortions.

Both of the remaining socket boxes are fitted. The over code 30A cable is a tricky beast to handle! I've got one length as far as the breaker box but that's as far as it goes. I couldn't find my hacksaw with my flashlight!

I did fit strain relief collars. That was a good suggestion. I'm thinking that by next weekend the electrics might be completed.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: scanzel on September 08, 2015, 11:41:27 AM
Just curious but why are you running 10/2 for all your wiring and then you stated your putting a 15a/ 20a receptical on the end of it. 15amp run 14/2, 20amp run 12/2. No need to run 10/2. The average home has either 15 or 20 amp circuts. Larger if running electric stove, large rated air units or central air. On a bus you are not going to have a voltage drop in such short runs. Take a look at what your plugging into the receptical what it is drawing in watts. 15amp max 1500 watts, 20amp max 2200 watts. And never run them at max amp/watts.
Title: Re:
Post by: Iceni John on September 08, 2015, 12:03:33 PM
Quote from: Zephod on September 07, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
The main breaker will be inside what will become the house battery compartment. That compartment will eventually have batteries that will power internal fans, extraction fans and phone\tablet chargers.
As a general rule it's not recommended to have any electronics in the same area as vented lead-acid batteries, because the acid fumes given off by the charging batteries can damage or corrode other things nearby.   Whether a breaker panel would suffer or not, I don't know.   You should also consider putting vents in the battery compartment to let out any build-up of hydrogen gas  -  these vents should be high, the opposite of propane vents that are low.   You also wouldn't want a spark from the fan motor to reach any hydrogen there!   At the least, turn the batteries' vent caps so they don't point straight at the cable lugs, and use tinned lugs to lessen corrosion.

John
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: eagle19952 on September 08, 2015, 12:24:34 PM
Quote from: scanzel on September 08, 2015, 11:41:27 AM
Just curious but why are you running 10/2 for all your wiring and then you stated your putting a 15a/ 20a receptical on the end of it. 15amp run 14/2, 20amp run 12/2. No need to run 10/2. The average home has either 15 or 20 amp circuts. Larger if running electric stove, large rated air units or central air. On a bus you are not going to have a voltage drop in such short runs. Take a look at what your plugging into the receptical what it is drawing in watts. 15amp max 1500 watts, 20amp max 2200 watts. And never run them at max amp/watts.

I believe he said that he used 10/2 incase he wanted to upgrade.
bigger is allowed, smaller is not.
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 08, 2015, 06:28:42 PM
I'm using 10-2 just in case I want to run something 20A off the 20A sockets and give myself generous room by using 30A cable.

My main breaker is 30A but the cable is 55A which gives room for expansion.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 08, 2015, 06:33:22 PM
Quote from: Iceni John on September 08, 2015, 12:03:33 PM
As a general rule it's not recommended to have any electronics in the same area as vented lead-acid batteries, because the acid fumes given off by the charging batteries can damage or corrode other things nearby.   Whether a breaker panel would suffer or not, I don't know.   You should also consider putting vents in the battery compartment to let out any build-up of hydrogen gas  -  these vents should be high, the opposite of propane vents that are low.   You also wouldn't want a spark from the fan motor to reach any hydrogen there!   At the least, turn the batteries' vent caps so they don't point straight at the cable lugs, and use tinned lugs to lessen corrosion.

John
There will be plenty ventilation. I'll be installing a metal compartment made from angle iron with the metal sheeting from an old fridge acting more as a splash guard than anything else.

Like as not, there'll just be one battery. That'll power tablet/phone chargers and extraction fans. That's all.
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: TomC on September 10, 2015, 06:27:15 AM
You better read up on RV wiring. If you have a generator, it needs to be grounded to the chassis of the bus-unless you want a wondering short to happen. If there's a short with no place to go, you could be zapped. You want the chassis of the bus to act like the ground pulling the electricity away to the generator, or when on the power pole, directly to the ground. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re:
Post by: Zephod on September 14, 2015, 09:37:46 AM
My electrics are done. All 120v plugin for now.

Sent from my Nexus 7
Title: Re: Electrical connections
Post by: Zephod on September 14, 2015, 04:26:15 PM
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F14%2Fb83ed3d7348f0f518c5267b55ddfdaac.jpg&hash=4f3eba6e3cde9d3c1aa3f80cb33276e373e248de)
Just before I finished the wiring.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F09%2F14%2Fe825406c6c9a8cb8b546aea351f5a97b.jpg&hash=809172ce58eed1da7e883306d3116944e08ccf3a)
My temporary main breaker setup - until I rebuild the compartment.

Sent from my Nexus 7