After looking at the XLII prevost I like their continuous window appearance on side..We are doing a 98 XLE and have to have side windows..was thinking about buying 4 by 10 tinted lexan 1/4 inch thick for outside and matching with 1/8 inch on inside..with air tight seal and maybe elect operated shades between...Prevost uses Lexan on some coaches for side windows already..I have some...the 4 by 10 sheet is 195$ at my local supplier...Brain storm time.....Bob
Interesting...I had a similar idea myself for making what is effectively a plastic double-glazed unit; in my case I was thinking of maybe a 1/4" gap between the two sheets, which I guess is far smaller than what you had in mind if you are talking about having an electric blind in the gap.
The reason I was thinking about this was in order to make a smaller and lighter version of my existing (curved and double-glazed) windows for use in a slide-out. I even wondered about making a 'bay' type window using this approach, where both sheets were curved into a semi-circle (or at least an arc).
How practical it is to produce home-made double-glazed units I don't know - but I can't think of a reason it couldn't be done as long as the proper moisture-absorbing spacer things are used to prevent condensation forming between the sheets.
I'd be interested in other comments
Jeremy
the frame work om the sides is 1 1/2 thick so plenty of room for shades..
Only downside that I can see is Lexan does scratch and after a while it will be hard to see thru! Even using a wash brush will scratch it but ymmv
My 89 has lexan side windows..20 yrs old and are not bad.I think the type of use would have a bearing on how long they last...
Lexan treated with Margard will hold up but man does that stuff cost
good luck
will ck with my lexan friend..lexan is produced 12 miles from my home in Mt. Vernon Indiana...will ask about coating... thanks
Don't forget double pane windows have gas (argon I think) in between in lieu of oxygen. I think this is so no condensation can form. But you could probably have the units put together at a glass shop that does that. I like the idea of the blinds being concealed until they have to be worked on. Maybe the interior sheet could be installed after everything else is in place. Do it in a way that allows it to be removable to access the blinds just in case. And put some air holes in the inner piece to allow air movement. Maybe this would eliminate the condensation. Don't know, long shot. You have however given me a thought to consider for mine. What if I had roller type blinds in my side windows that were concealed in my valances. Install the inner lexan sheet to allow the thin sheet of blind material to raise and lower with the flip of a switch. Just brainstorming 8)
Lexan sounds great.......its tough stuff! On a XL how are you going to manage, the curved top, and where are the gaskets coming from............those gaskets are almost as expensive as the windows! The question about moisture and argon were great........you have to figure that one out too!
I don't think argon is routinely used - I'm pretty sure it's just regular air, or perhaps dried air or a partial vacuum in units from the better producers.
But maybe not - I've had double-glazed units made for my house on several occasions, and when collecting them have walked through the shop floor of the small local factory that made them. The units were just being assembled on benches by guys using basic tools and the standard silica-filled spacing strips - I certainly didn't see any equipment that looked capable of pulling a vacuum or injecting argon or dry air.
I'm sure it would be possible to buy the spacer strips, so cannot think of any reason why you couldn't make your own units from acrylic or polycarbonate (Perspex or Lexan to you guys).
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dg-c.com.au%2Fimages%2Fdg.gif&hash=d55c5721f19fad35fe374e499a86ab1c41b982e3)
Jeremy
present plans are to remove skin down to frame and use that frame to attach lexan to using the same procedure they use to install auto windshields gives bigger window area and does away with rubbers paint frame members black..considering a double angle trim piece on front edge...MarGuard was only 60$ more so I told him to include the coating.:Thanks Clifford:
My existing windows units (maybe 3/4" thick) are simply bonded into the window apertures with Sikaflex or simiar. The outside face of the glass is flush with the outside face of the steel frame, with a flat strip of black plastic covering the join. A very lightweight aluminium trim piece is rivetted behind the glass on the inside - again I think it's there just to hide the gap rather than being required for any engineering reason.
I think modern buses which have completely flush glazing are done in essentially the same way, but that their double glazed units have 'stepped' edges rather than flat ones - ie. the outer pane of glass is bigger than the inner pane in order to cover the Sikaflex join (the glass itself being black rather than transparent on the edges). There's no reason this couldn't be done with Lexan to achieve that state-of-the-art look.
Jeremy
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbus-and-coach-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2F2180.jpg&hash=3e622fdb589e2bc9adcb38936e07fcf702166f04)
Quote from: robertglines1 on May 26, 2010, 04:15:24 PM
After looking at the XLII prevost I like their continuous window appearance on side..We are doing a 98 XLE and have to have side windows..was thinking about buying 4 by 10 tinted lexan 1/4 inch thick for outside and matching with 1/8 inch on inside..with air tight seal and maybe elect operated shades between...Prevost uses Lexan on some coaches for side windows already..I have some...the 4 by 10 sheet is 195$ at my local supplier...Brain storm time.....Bob
I'm not a Privy -- er, Provost -- driver, so I don't know the one model from the other, but I will tell you that you are going to get a window-by-window look anyhow if you skin the coach with sheet Lexan.
The Lexan windows you would buy from Prevost are pre-formed and hardened in machines. The sheet you can buy is flexible and soft. That means that it will wrinkle and bulge between the pillars. As you look in your mirrors, you will have a "swells in the bay" effect.
Also, how would you attach the Lexan? Would your fastening method be visible from outside, and if so, wouldn't that be as obvious as your normal window configuration?
Next, the stuff is not DOT approved. I dunno if this will matter, but your insurance company might have an issue with it if they inspected the coach for any kind of claim.
Lastly, Lexan BURNS, and as it does so it creates highly-toxic gases.
My TMC has a "one window" look of sorts -- the pillars and window frames are all painted black, and the windows are tinted.
If you have an interest in between the glass shades check out www.pella.com (http://www.pella.com)
I am a commercial construction rep for them. They are the only company that does a true shade between the glass that does not look like an after thought. But in most cases what we sell is a triple glazed unit. Meaning that there is a LowE double pane insulated w/ argon gas exterior and then a hinged glass that the blinds fasten to between the units.
Almost all windows sold now are Argon filled and this can typically be done by a local glass house in about any shape you want. The difference between the two is that some have the LowE coating and some do not. The argon and space between the two panes of glass is what mostly make up your insulating factor and the LowE cuts the light transmission, UV, glare, etc...
If you are serious about blinds between the glass I would recommend it be at least mounted to a hinge panel for the accessibility to service. If you want the most energy efficient than you definitely want triple glazed with argon and shades. Here is a link to a cut section and performance values: http://www.pellacommercial.com/specifications/casement.asp (http://www.pellacommercial.com/specifications/casement.asp)
Just for information sake, compare the double to triple glazed performance. http://pellaadm.com/aspx/Selections.aspx?pid=32&step=2 (http://pellaadm.com/aspx/Selections.aspx?pid=32&step=2)
If you click on the PDF symbol (Complete Product Performance Information) there is a great deal of information to help understand glazing and the properties that add energy efficiency.
HTH,
Bryan
Everyone knows I do things differently...so I research,think(that hurts) and listen to board members...the coach I have is a salvage shell to buy new windows (8) and gaskets would be between 24 and 34 hundred dollars .and I would not have anything other than normal..so its a dollar thing and a desire to think out side the box...I am listening Have already added the Marguard....will not be used in any drivers view windows..and have tint to same spec as XLII windows....I do listen and learn....Bob
I wouldn't think you'd want a vacuum inside a double glazed window - when (not if) the seal leaks, it would suck in moisture.
If it were me, I'd have the inside sheet removeable (like others have said) & held in with trim strips. Easier to clean the window & service the blind.
As for the blind - you need to prevent the blind from touching the plastic - marguard or not, it will scratch sooner than later.
Good luck with this project! ;D
I do know house windows use gas, but RV windows don't, at least not the ones I have seen. They just have a dead air space, no argon.
Pella and Anderson are the top manufacturers of house/commercial windows, use to sell them years ago in Oregon. Boy what memories!
good point on blind..what about a side track to center it in dead space.roller top and bottom to keep tension on shade..like a garage door
Paul,
Did not know you used to sell Pella windows?
If you can find a good glass house locally there should not be much you can't do. It's only $$$$$ LOL!
Bryan