. . . gotta shake my head over this:
Went to MickeyD's for a McFlurrie dessert tonight, and when I pulled into the strip mall where it's located, there was a relatively new stick & staple Monaco three-axle diesel pusher parked in the lot, with the door open.
After I found a spot nearby, I happened to see the "man of the house", and commented to him that he's got a nice-looking rig. (Can you see where this is going? I'm going to play with him! BW & BK will appreciate this!) As you can imagine, I got all the details: 40-foot 2006 model he got from an estate sale w/ less than 20K miles on it, Cummins/Allison, air suspension, air brakes, two slides, three A/Cs, all electric, 15Kw genset, etc.
"Air brakes? How do you like them compared to your car/truck?" I asked him. . .
"Oh, they're great! Completely different feel, but boy will they stop this rig. And everything's automatic on them, too!! Not like the old ones, I never need to adjust anything!"
So, just to lead him on: "Do you know how to do a DOT-approved air brake system check-out before driving your rig?"
"Nah, I don't have to do any of that commercial stuff, since it's a private vehicle. Besides, like I said before, everything in the system adjusts itself automatically, so I don't need to check it out before driving. . ."
Hmmmm. . . "What if you have a pinhole leak in a brake can, how would you know?"
"Not a problem, everything adjusts itself in the air brake system automatically, so the system would adjust to it." :o :o
"Well, enjoy your rig" I said as I walked into McD's, shaking my head. . .
Remind me to stay far away from S&S rigs that are obviously air-brake equipped, if this is the common line of thinking among these folk!!
I certainly hope those who frequent this forum have a different attitude about their air systems than this guy!
Whew!
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
AMEN!
There a lot of scary drivers out there. Reminds me of the man that said he always pumped his air brakes??? And then the ones who have very poor vision, but still drive. Jack
Unfortunately, you cannot blame the owner for his lack of knowledge. Go to any RV dealer and look at a 40" DP. Tell the salesman that you are intimidated by the size and he will tell you "It's just like driving a van, just put it in drive and go. Nothing to worry about, it's all automatic, practically drives itself."
Just wait till he tries out the cruise control/auto pilot to go back in the kitchen to get something to drink. After all, it has all the latest automation.
That is really too sad. Too bad they don't really tell them what is involved with the big rigs.
There is a reason that RV repair shops are always so busy, fixing all of those automated parts ;D.
God bless,
John
I know he got it at an estate sale, but he probably has no mechanical experience or know how. I wonder if he even knows how to check the oil level in the engine, wonder if he thinks it's automatic too. How sad! And there are a bunch of them out there, kinda scary huh.
I just hope he reads "Da Book"!
Paul
You want scary? Go to an RV discussion forum & read up on what many believe about GCVW & how heavy a trailer you can pull with minimal equipment.
Idiots are everywhere.
Ever watch minivans in traffic?
Thinking about this makes me want to get a tri axle dump truck for my daily commute. ;D
Motorhomes compound the mechanical complexity by having both a commercial vehicle and household type equipment on board. While it isn't mandatory, it sure makes life a lot easier on the road if you understand every system on board so you can at least make an intelligent decision as to what to do in the case of a failure, rather than having some mechanic taking you for a ride. There are always little things that pop up that if you are not mechanically inclined to fix them, will just plainly make your life miserable. Personally-it is a challenge to me, and like the fun in fixing it. Course some would not feel that way-and those types perhaps would be better suited to just stay in motels. Good Luck, TomC
If only I could figure out how to side step my value system and get in on the INCOME possibilities these folks represent....
RJ, you are quite the pro, left the guy feeling like a king!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I take it you guys have never talked to some of the owners of new Prevost buses the S&S people don't have the market on dumb.
I met owner with a new H3-45 that never even drove a pickup before and the only thing he knew about the bus was he gave 934,000 bucks for it at Marathon in Oregon that is scary a guy in a 45 ft ,50,000# and over 12 ft tall rig with no training or experience what ever.
good luck
Quote from: kyle4501 on September 28, 2009, 07:12:42 AM
Thinking about this makes me want to get a tri axle dump truck for my daily commute. ;D
Aw, come on Kyle, admit it....you just want an excuse to that dump truck to add to your collection. We all know the truth! ;D ;D
Quote from: bubbaqgal on September 28, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: kyle4501 on September 28, 2009, 07:12:42 AM
Thinking about this makes me want to get a tri axle dump truck for my daily commute. ;D
Aw, come on Kyle, admit it....you just want an excuse to that dump truck to add to your collection. We all know the truth! ;D ;D
Already there - air brakes, 15 spd, tandem rear with lockout, power steering & air ride seat. All in a 1963 international Loadstar 1800.
COOL TRUCK! ;D 8) ;D
How many of you had training or experience before buying your first RV or bus? The only experience I had was towing a 30' travel trailer across the USA a few times. I did do a lot of research before buying my bus. No experience before buying my travel trailer.
The states probably should mandate some sort of special license or training before owning an air brake motorhome, but most don't. The RV industry does a lot of lobbying against special licensing.
I was one of the lucky ones-in that I was an 18 wheel owner/operator for 21 years. Now driving my bus is a pop stand in comparison. Course it helps that it is a transit-they have a much tighter turning radius (for obvious reasons) then a highway coach. Now the challenge will be driving my truck conversion. It is at the other end of the spectrum with taking 8 lanes to do a U turn. But the whole reason for carrying a car is to do my exploring with the car, not the truck. So I'm not to worried about it. Good Luck, TomC
The biggest problem is arrogant ignorance of the unknown. Followed by denial & political posturing to transfer blame & responsibility.
The reason they haven't had training is because they assume the seller wouldn't mislead them & after all, if it was needed, there'd be a law . . . .
The fact that someone is reading this board shows some awareness of the unknown & an attempt to learn.
BTW, there aren't many RV driving courses available to choose from either. . . not to mention the expense . . .
I read the CDL drivers handbook when I got my bus - "HOLY CRAP, Just what have I gotten into?" was my first thought! Then I studied & after learning the systems, it isn't that big of a deal - just lots more pre-trip effort than if you took your car . . . . But, a much nicer ride . . . ;D
You guys are right on with this subject. I had several motorhomes over the years including a DP before my bus. Working on them helped me layout the bus systems fairly quickly as I knew what I liked and what worked. I wish I had my CDL 16 years ago so I would have known about controlled braking when I experienced brake fade on the Ashland grade in a heavy class A gas rig with no supplemental braking.
The one saving grace with the Monaco owner with "auto everything" is the park brakes will come on (to his surprise) when his pin hole leak finally becomes greater than the compressor output.
Make no mistake, the biggest threat on the road are the four wheelers, as the truckers would say.
Chuck
Not to start a roaring flame but from My on road experience driving all over the country working on commerical welding systems there is a large number of truckers that could certainly use some training. Both the ones that do not speak english and others including the women I watch cut off drivers because They either do not care or do not know where the back of their rig really is. Until recently I travled about 100k a year and it never ceases to amaze just how badly some proffesional drivers drive. There is room for improvement on both sides of the aisle. Just My take, John
Hey Chuck,
You hit on one of my favorite safety issues. This does not apply to DD3 emergency chambers.
Thats the pin hole in the emergency diaphragm. Long before the Park Brake comes on, the spring brake starts dragging the shoes on the drum connected to the bad diaphragm. Loss of pressure allows the spring to slowly come uncoiled and actuate its brake shoes.
One brake shoe set out of 6, (Bus), or 10, (Truck), is hard to detect from the drivers seat, you frequently see smoke as your first warning sign that you are soon to be on fire.
The brake shoes will lightly drag the drum at first, but even a small emergency spring pressure will create a hot brake drum. Long before the hole becomes large enough to overcome the compressor, the brake drum will be cherry red.
It's rare for a cherry red brake drum not to burn a bus to the ground. Trucks have alot more space around the brake drums for air to cool them compared to a bus. Unless it's real hot out, most truck drums will cool without burning the rig.
My understanding of FMSCA Rules in the old days is they would not approve spring emergency brakes for passenger vehicles because of the fire hazard. That is why Bendix invented the DD3. No spring relying on air to produce a burning bus fire hazard for passengers. Several years ago, FMSCA looked at all the data and decided spring brakes had a good enough safety record to be allowed on buses...
If your bus holds air with the park brake on, turn your bus off and then release the parking brake. There will be an initial loss of air to charge the air cans and release the brakes. That may take 5 lbs of air or so off the gauge. After that, the gauge must hold steady and not continue to lose air.
If it does continue to lose air, you need to look at your emergency brake diaphragms before you drive any farther.
I think if any of you have spring actuated emergency brakes, 10 years would be right out there at the extreme for some new piggybacks. Thats a long time for a chunk of rubber to provide such an important service.
NJT, that is a real good piece of information right there, in a handy package. Thank you.
Brian
Quote from: junkman42 on September 29, 2009, 09:44:50 AM
Not to start a roaring flame but from My on road experience driving all over the country working on commerical welding systems there is a large number of truckers that could certainly use some training. Both the ones that do not speak english and others including the women I watch cut off drivers because They either do not care or do not know where the back of their rig really is. Until recently I travled about 100k a year and it never ceases to amaze just how badly some proffesional drivers drive. There is room for improvement on both sides of the aisle. Just My take, John
You aren't alone. There are steering wheel huggers in everything from mopeds to +80,000# vehicles.
I get nervous when ever someone says they put on their turn signal, count to 'x' & then change lanes. ::)
Why bother with having mirrors if you aren't going to use them?
It occurs to me that if you can't tell that the lane is clear, you shouldn't change lanes into it -OR- just maybe, you should not be driving.
This ain't the wild west . . . . or it shouldn't be . . . ;D
NJT, isn't that why some people have insurance - so they don't have to concern themselves with proper maintenance? ::)
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NJT5573,
What a great explanation of potential spring brake failures and resulting fires. That by far is the most logical reason why (possibly) DD3 chambers came into vogue many years ago. Particularly if the Feds required them on passenger vehicles. It stands to reason, with the extra cost and plumbing of DD3's, a legal mandate would be the only reason manufacturers would spend the extra money to use them. Regardless, I wish I could use 3030's instead of DD3 due to the price difference. But I can't accommodate the longer 3030 chamber. I'm picking up my DD3's from Capital Clutch in Sacramento this afternoon. Don't know yet the monetary damage. Hopefully, the rebuilds will last my use of the bus.
My reference to the Monaco was simply if he loses his brakes for any reason, the coach stops thereby not becoming a greater 15 ton hazard than he already is.
Now I see why most of the brake fires I have seen on the news the last 3 years are newer buses, typically the J and G series. Many thanks for the input.
Chuck