Electronic engines and ten speed manual transmissions

[Bob Belter]

Ahoy, BusCons, and Bob of the North,

OK, I've been found out ----  My shifter is on the left side.  When I removed the Allison 750, I also had no remaining original shifting stuff, or even a route to get there.  I needed to create an entire new shift linkage, and it was much easier to put it on the left side.  I had never driven a ten speed, but I figured that if I could land on a carrier with either hand, I could shift with either hand.  How long to learn???  I don't know, I've only driven it ~~42,000 miles, and I'm still sometimes 'noisy'.

In discussions with other manual transmission guys, we have decided that having a manual shift handle to hold onto promotes good order and discipline.  You 'automatic' guys don't have this implement available, and we suspect that it leads to a tendency toward perversion.

Enjoy  /s/  Bob

[Dreamscape]

Bob,

Why did you decide to pull the 750?

Paul

[Bob Belter]

Ahoy, Dreamscape,

I bought my Eagle -01 bus with no engine and transmission, and NO experience or background in bus conversion.
Conventional wisdom (back then) was to install a DD two cycle and Allison transmission.
I bought a DD 6v92t, and Allison 750 with '5000 miles since overhaul'.  When I installed it and began to drive it, I realized that he must have meant '5000 miles UNTIL overhaul'!!!!  It was a slobbering disaster, and the transmission was as frantic as a teen age girl!!!!

Then I began losing coolant  ---  I found it  --  It was in the crankcase making a gray milkshake!!!
Turns out that both the engine and transmission were so very early in the specie that the serial numbers didn't mean anything to the OEM's
Both the engine AND transmission cores were of NO value ---  !!!!! 
Plus, I then did a bit of engineering analysis, and with that, the Allison was gone.  WAY too inefficient, even if it could have been brought up to 'standard'.

Sometimes education can be costly  !!!!

Enjoy  /s/  Bob

[Dreamscape]

Bob,

Thanks for sharing your disaster with us. Sounds like the gremlins were hard at work!

Paul

[lloyd]

Bob, what did you use for a shift linkage from the front to the trans?
Lloyd

[makemineatwostroke]

Hey guys; Gary Dawson a friend of mine has a 10 speed in his 05 eagle and he used a air shifter from a White 5000 cabover made in the 60's (I think) no long rods to worry about to keep adjusted neat install with a lever 4 inches tall on a console   have a great day

[Dreamscape]

Hey guys; Gary Dawson a friend of mine has a 10 speed in his 05 eagle and he used a air shifter from a White 5000 cabover made in the 60's (I think) no long rods to worry about to keep adjusted neat install with a lever 4 inches tall on a console   have a great day

Now, that's good information indeed!

Thanks!

[Bob Belter]

Ahoy, Lloyd,

As I noted, the original shifter 'stuff' on my Eagle-01 was long gone.  Indeed, good riddance.  It was surely NOT done by the guys who did the structure, and weighed about half as much as the bus, and was very draggy!!! 

I did an aircraft flight control cable and pulley scheme, front to rear for the fore/aft linkeage.  Good enough for flying airplanes, so I figured it would be OK for a bus.  I used the left over teleflex push-pull cable to provide left/right action.  It works just fine, and is trouble free and gives good feel of the 'gears' as you shift.  I cannot imagine that an air shifter would work, with NO  feel.  I'd be interested in a discussion about it.

Enjoy  /s/  Bob

[NewbeeMC9]

interesting thread,

you have pics or website links

bob and Gary dawson

[makemineatwostroke]

Newbee; I typed in (yahoo) White 5000 with air shifter and it was the first heading( just freight) so they were made have a great evening   

[rv_safetyman]

I wanted to point out that an Eaton AutoShift can be used with a non-J1939 electronic engine as well as a mechanical engine.
This offers the option to install a mechanical transmission into any "T" drive bus without having to deal with fabricating shift linkage.  You still need a clutch system (hydraulic is reasonably easy to install in a bus).

What happens is that an AutoShift becomes an AutoSelect and you shift the gears by backing off the throttle and increasing/decreasing the RPM as indicated by the shift indicator.  I have not driven mine that way, but I would guess that you would develop the rhythm rather quickly.

Eaton Roadmaster has redone their website, and it looks like they have dropped all of the links to the Gen I transmission data (what you would find in a wrecking yard).  Go to:  http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/index.htm and do a search for trdr0040 which will tell you how to drive the transmission.

Jim

[luvrbus]

Guys, the air shifter is in use today I drive the activity bus for the school here some it is a 1993 MCI DL 3 that came from the factory with a 3176 Cat engine and a 10 speed roadranger with OD it has a air shifter on a consloe by the seat,has a lever about 6 inches tall and a switch in the handle 1 inch wide you flip up to go into the high range gears. works great after you get the swing of it the clutch has to be depressed to activate the shifter for shifting all the way down for 1st gear and middle way for 2nd to 10th. The county here has the same shifter in their 2008 International model 8600 trucks with the 10 speeds 

good luck

[rv_safetyman]

OK guys.  I like to stay up on transmission technology.

The air shifting you are talking about, does it totally do away with shift linkage?  Or is it the typical truck transmission that is a five speed box that is shifted with a stick and a splitter/range shifter that is shifted with the air switch?  The latter comes in two forms, one where you split each gear (like the old 5 speed transmission and 2 speed rear end) and one where you go through the gears with the stick, change the range and then go back through the gears. 

If it is a "stickless" 10 speed (no linkage), I really want to find out more about it.

With the AutoShift, the shifting tower is replaced with a top that has two servos that essentially move a "short stick" for and aft and left and right.  It sounds like you guys are talking about a similar system where the servos are replaced with air cylinders and I just can't imagine that would work. 

Jim

[luvrbus]

Jim. I do know the difference between a 5 speed with a 2 or 3 speed axle and 10 speed .I have asked Dawson for some photos of his set up but he really don't care he is not a member of any board, this guy has had the air shifter with a 10 speed and his 3306 aftercooled 295 hp cat engine for years in that Eagle.I did research and found that White Motor Co did offer the air shifter on the 5000 and the 3000  models with 10 speeds also came up the International Truck spec for bid to the Port of Long Beach a air shifter with a 10 speed manual was in Internationals spec after market or not I don't know but the Whites were made by Fuller for the 5000 and the 3000 models in 1960.FWIW the guy at school said he thinks that is a Roadranger FRO transmission in the bus and in 15 years of service they have relpaced a few o-rings   good luck

[Bob Belter]

Ahoy, Luvrbus, and Jim,

I too wonder how the airshifter functions.  It must work, or it would NOT be a commercial product.  Seems that a gear selection / change will 'stuff' the transmission into that gear, 'ready or not' in terms of sync of the gears.  If I'm not synch'd pretty good on gear change on my RTO11110 ten speed, it gets very noisy.  Is it airshift shifted clutch in or out?  How do you establish that it is in 'synch' before or during gear selection / change?

Thanks  /s/  Bob