NHTSA Crash Test ? Or In-House Company Test ?

[D0ggSh0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrZr-QZbfxo

[D0ggSh0]

Can somebody please verify the standard speed protocol of a  NHTSA crash test for a seated coach or transit bus. Thank you very much for all the info on this board people.

[niles500]

It stated 49.3 KPH or 35 MPH - HTH

[Sojourner]

This may not be the same test # as of the video.
http://www.trcpg.com/whatsnewdetail.asp?id=29


Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

[D0ggSh0]

Wow, and thanks for the info link Sojourner .

[HighTechRedneck]

It's easy to see why the driver often doesn't survive.

That crash test goes far in supporting the idea that has been discussed here in the past about building a reinforced steel "crash cage" into the walls and floor around the driver and "copilot" seat areas.

[D0ggSh0]

...And sadly, it is only at regular street cruising speed.

I'd read somewhere in the NHTSA online database that a seat belt and softy restraint air bag protocol is in some sort of "cache-status" holding for two years (from what date - I honestly do not know) while testing for optimal implimentation. Sorry, did not copy it, but was nested so frigging deep in the database from one sub-page to another, that I cannot retrace my steps so readily.

[HighTechRedneck]

Driver seat belts and airbags are all fine and good at keeping the driver in the seat rather than being thrown forward.  But looking at that video, where is that seat in the "crumple zone"?  So in that demonstration, a seat belt and airbag would only serve to make sure he didn't fly forward and hit the steering wheel and/or windshield before getting crushed, severed or impaled.

I have joked before about it being designed that way to motivate bus drivers to drive carefully.  But sometimes when I look at how lightly built the driver area of most buses are built, I wonder whether it is only a joke.

[D0ggSh0]

Driver seat belts and airbags are all fine and good at keeping the driver in the seat rather than being thrown forward.  But looking at that video, where is that seat in the "crumple zone"?  So in that demonstration, a seat belt and airbag would only serve to make sure he didn't fly forward and hit the steering wheel and/or windshield before getting crushed, severed or impaled.

I have joked before about it being designed that way to motivate bus drivers to drive carefully.  But sometimes when I look at how lightly built the driver area of most buses are built, I wonder whether it is only a joke.

I feel you on that HighTechRedNeck. Look at how the whole seating foundation seems to have dislodged. What good will any passenger three-point safety belt be if the whole contraption is just thrown forward. More badly if any of the shoulder belt points are fastened to the bus shell wall while the seat is slammed forward.

[buswarrior]

For those that didn't link through..

TMC did this test late in 2007 on a 2000 MCI 102EL3 Renaissance model.

Of the many investigations being performed, one was looking at seat belts for coaches.

This has serious implications as far as weight, as noted, there will need to be structure in place to hold the chairs and the belt attachment points.

Industry drove these tests, as it is only a matter of time before we see some knee jerk legislation for seat belts. Choosing some arbitrary or whimsical strength for these belts borrowed from the body of automobile crash testing without scientific principles being applied could prove to be quite unneccesary and have numerous negative impacts, not the least being the economic viability of the coach industry.

One interesting stat, a crash that delivers 20 g's to the occupants of an automobile will only deliver somewhere close to 7 g's to the occupants of a motorcoach, due to the vehicle's mass taking care of the rest of the crash forces.

There was supposed to be another coach crashed sometime in 2008. I haven't heard anything as yet.

I think the absolute crushing of the driver's compartment might be required viewing for those coach drivers who like to tailgate?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Lin]

I watched the video and it seemed like the bus was going about 2 mph. 

[Busted Knuckle]

Driver seat belts and airbags are all fine and good at keeping the driver in the seat rather than being thrown forward.  But looking at that video, where is that seat in the "crumple zone"?  So in that demonstration, a seat belt and airbag would only serve to make sure he didn't fly forward and hit the steering wheel and/or windshield before getting crushed, severed or impaled.

I have joked before about it being designed that way to motivate bus drivers to drive carefully.  But sometimes when I look at how lightly built the driver area of most buses are built, I wonder whether it is only a joke.

I feel you on that HighTechRedNeck. Look at how the whole seating foundation seems to have dislodged. What good will any passenger three-point safety belt be if the whole contraption is just thrown forward. More badly if any of the shoulder belt points are fastened to the bus shell wall while the seat is slammed forward.

For those that didn't link through..

TMC did this test late in 2007 on a 2000 MCI 102EL3 Renaissance model.

Of the many investigations being performed, one was looking at seat belts for coaches.

This has serious implications as far as weight, as noted, there will need to be structure in place to hold the chairs and the belt attachment points.

Industry drove these tests, as it is only a matter of time before we see some knee jerk legislation for seat belts. Choosing some arbitrary or whimsical strength for these belts borrowed from the body of automobile crash testing without scientific principles being applied could prove to be quite unneccesary and have numerous negative impacts, not the least being the economic viability of the coach industry.

One interesting stat, a crash that delivers 20 g's to the occupants of an automobile will only deliver somewhere close to 7 g's to the occupants of a motorcoach, due to the vehicle's mass taking care of the rest of the crash forces.

There was supposed to be another coach crashed sometime in 2008. I haven't heard anything as yet.

I think the absolute crushing of the driver's compartment might be required viewing for those coach drivers who like to tailgate?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

HTR, Shodogg, BW and everybody else!,
Over the past 3-4 yrs everytime we think about buying a "new" bus (old bus but new to us!) we sit around and talk and try to decide if it is the right thing to do or not! And everytime it comes up that some day, not sure when, but some day we are going to have to have seat belts in them!  Now we have discussed this with folks a MCI, SETRA, and ABC, and they all agree that yes some day it's going to happen! Now ALL of them say that it's going to be a sad day when it happens for 3 reasons!
1) When it happens it'll be overnight! And none of us will be prepared.
2) The used buses already built will not be strong enough for the "added" seat belts. That every little small struggling operator will throw in just to comply with the law. And then when they hurt or kill someone because they weren't properly designed. Look out legal system, here we come again!
3) Only after much expense and modification will new (or used!) buses be equipped with SAFE seat belts! And nobody will be able to afford to comply! So then it'll be a mass confusion of the guberment handing out grants to all the big companies to "help" them survive (can you say "bail out?) so we don't end up with NO BUS COMPANIES!

Now that said the only one being built and marketed at this time with APPROVED seat belts is BCI's Falcon 45! And everytime we add a bus to the fleet is considered to just get rid of ALL the old buses and just buy 2 BCI Falcon 45's! Now before now that was a joke as there is no way we could AFFORD, to buy 2 BRAND NEW buses! But now that  they have been on the market for a few yrs, we are seriously considering to USED Falcon 45's! And getting rid of the MCI's and converting the SETRA"s to personal conversions!
Did I just type that? huh? what? Yup it was actually mentioned at the glass table several days ago (and not by me either!)! huh? Did I hear that right?

Well for what it's worth, it's what I know for now!    BK

[Dreamscape]

Seeing that crash is scary to say the least. Any driver will not survive the impact even with seat belts and air bags. It gave me the willies to see that. 

When driving our Eagle I keep a very long distance between me and the guy in front, but then some nut will pass and cut in front and slam on the brakes. Not good.

The safest place for any vehicle is in the driveway! Of which ours spends a lot of time there. 

Paul

[HighTechRedneck]

It should serve as a sobering reminder to drive safely.

• Always drive the bus, not just hold the wheel.
• Always look ahead, know what is happening several vehicles forward.
• Keep mirrors properly adjusted and use them to know what is coming up beside you.
• Always get enough sleep before driving.  If you get sleepy while driving, stop and walk around, do some excercises, get some coffee, whatever works for you to regain alertness.
• Keep both hands on the wheel.  Things happen fast and depending on the speed, if one of your hands isn't on the wheel, it will take 100-150 feet to get it there.
• "Know" your bus.  Know how it feels when it's running right, notice when something changes.
• Maintain your brakes, steering and tires as though your life depends on them, it does.
• Never ever indulge in "adult beverages" and drive it.

All that said, there is a silver lining to this cloud.  Consider how many buses there are with over 1 million miles on them.  Consider all the ones with 3 million or more miles on them.  Consider all the highway trucks out there with over 1 million miles on them.  The odds of being in a fatal collision are probably much worse whenever your drive your car.  Just don't let those odds lull you into complacency about driving safely when driving your bus.
   

[Busted Knuckle]

Speaking of crashes I have to say our that I am truly confident in one of our part time drivers! I know for a fact he doesn't tailgate. I have known Dave 7 or 8 yrs and he has driven for a freind of mine every since I met him. Well about 5 yrs ago he was hauling a group of people to Pigeon Forge, TN and got into a traffic jam. Well next thing ya know there was a BRAKE CHECK! Dave WAS following a tractor trailer TOO close and rear ended it! Luckily he was the only one on the coach that received anything more than a scratch! Dave had a crushed foot and a broken foot! Other than that luckily his injuries were minor scrapes and cuts! And he was trapped until they cut him out and freed his feet! I can GUARANTEE Dave does not follow too close now! Also at the accident he was NOT cited for following too close, and it was not said it was his fault. But rather an unavoidable situation. Well Dave and I talked long before he applied to drive for us, and he did admit to me "that in my mind, I know I was folloing too close!" even though the TN HWY Patrol and the insurance company did not charge him at fault! I can assure you it has made him a much more aware driver!

  BK