Today news....gas prices going up to near $5 tomorrow

[travelingfools]

Left New York yesterday am and got into fla today at 11...(in a car) on the average, gas was 3.60 t0 3.80. diesal seemed to hang around the high 3's , low 4's. Gas just outside of Fort Myers was 3.67 this morning..haven't seen any local diesal prices yet.

[JohnEd]

Gerald,

The current crop of disasters on Wall St.  are the result of the gummint "not" being involved.  Since Reagan the gummint has been backing out of regulation of everything from airlines to investment banks.  In every big push to minimize gummint we have seen a massive failure that the General Fund, read that as your money", has to bail out.  Savings and Loan bailout was started when Reagan lifted the regulation and allowed the S&L industry to make "speculative loans/investment".  Remember the mantra?  Get the regulators out and let industry make the decisions it needs to to generate BIG profits for investors.  That didn't work out well for the investors but the people that became eligible to borrow from what had been the most restrictive and safe institutions raped the system and the tax payer picked up the tab.  Why people can't see that the deregulation zeal is a front for the political operatives to stuff their pockets.

While the dust was still in the air from the S&L crap I heard the then pres. say that we needed to deregulate the banking industry as quickly as possible.  You could have knocked me over with a feather.  You could have reused the propaganda from the S&L crap by just substituting the terms S&L and Banking.  Nobody caught on and decent people picked up the mesage "Get the infernal Gummint out of the Bankers hair so they can make the common man rich".  Gage!  Next it went from making more speculative loans to letting banks sell securities.  That was met with an outcry of protest from conservatives with a sense of business logic and a six month memory and the faculty to connect really big dots.  That act to get gummint out of the life of bankers did not make the common man rich but some bank investors raped the system with securities scams and when a bank the FDIC stepped in and protected the depositors up to $50 K with tax dollars.

Then came the flood of realestate investment and loan bundling and that seemed to crush the investors and banks that underwrote those "no down home loans" with adjustable rates.  This time the gummint made BIG bailout grants to the banks and the banks immediately paid off their most expensive loans that they made to each other with money that was intended to shore up the lending so the home industry wouldn't collapse.  After shrewdly using the money for their own investors purposes the banks STOPPED writing new loans alltogether.  And they did it without gummint interference or strings attached to the grants.  After all, everybody knows the gummint never got involved in anything that ever worked out.  Lots of congressmen and Senators protested that loans or grants with out "strings" and gummint controls would find their way into investors pockets in a New York.  Now just because the proponents of regulation have proved right in so many instances is not "proof" that they know squat or we should not continue to ignore them about their knowledge of Greed being the common motivator in business.  There is no irrefutable proof as Rush says.

I would strongly suggest a course of action for all those that are fundamentally opposed to gummint regulation.  Sell off all you securities and stocks in US owned or controlled corporations.  Take that money and invest it in Mexican securities and stocks and transfer all your deposits to a Mexican Bank.  These institutions are seriously not regulated.  By the current formula for success circulated among liberals, these are the investments most rich in opportunity and profit for the investor.  Their gummint does not interfere down there.  If you are opposed to gummint regulation....go south.  You need not relinquish your citizenship to relocate your capitol as that commodity is truly not impeded by national boundary.

There is so much to say on this matter and so little time.  Don't forget...gummint can prevent a affluent minority of investors from making a killing in commerce and that's just not "fair"....its just "flat wrong" according to them.  They have a need for your money and deregulating will grease the skids of the transfer.  Now lets talk about investing the Social Security Trust Fund in the shadow of the ever expanding shadow of the banking implosion.  Really.  Lets get talking about that so all the interested parties can get down to compromising on the solution.

Then again there is the gummint lack of fuel price regulation that used to be imposed in time of crisis.  Usually was an act to cap the price of fuel.  The logic was that the previous price or the price in other areas was indicative of the true cost of production and added profit.  Exceeding that price was opportunistic and inflicted on the payers by a corp taking unfair advantage of an act of God .  This seems to be what is happening with the hurycane victums whose lives have been turned upside down.  I heard an interview by a proponent of price caps say that "no corp has ever been known to go broke as a result of caps but every industry has claimed that the result will be total bankruptsy and disruption of bidness.  Now isn't that exactly what exorbitant price hikes during a disruptive disaster result in?  I think some regulation is needed here and we should be able to see what no regulation does to the common taxpayer.

Paul Revere and others,

John

[ktmossman]

The current crop of disasters on Wall St.  are the result of the gummint "not" being involved.

Now THAT is hysterical...  Please find a local corporate attorney and ask him how much the govt. is "not" involved.  There are enough regulations covering Wall St. to fill numerous volumes, literally.  In fact, we waste billions of $$ every year in this country to do nothing more than handle the paperwork of govt. regulation.  This I know for an absolute fact because I do it for a living.  I and my (not small) staff do nothing more for our company that handle the administrative BS involved in compliance with Sarbanes-Oxley and Gramm-Leach-Bliley.  And I really do not want to do this (not my original area of expertise), but it is such a b@#$% for the company that they asked me to deal with it and try to find a way to reduce the financial cost of compliance.

And the 31,000 scientists that have signed the statement are not climate scientists, nor does the documentation claim that they are.  They are, however, all scientists that specialize in a field that has some connection to the causes and evidences related to global climate (geologists, climatologists, paleontologists, etc.)  In other words, their specialties are such that they might actually know what they are talking about when they talk about climate and its' impact in the earth.   As opposed to the Kyoto crap, where over half of the scientists involved were specialists in things like psychology.

And no one ever said that freedom was not risky...  In fact, quite the opposite...  Freedom includes the freedom to screw-up big time, but it also includes the freedom to risk it all and claim the payoff when you succeed.  If you want the ultimate in security, check into your local death row prison cell.  Also note, no form of socialism has ever eliminated poverty.  What was it that Dostoevsky said:

"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet, and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'"

[rwc]

You can say what you want but on the way to Texas Bus Roundup on Thursday I paid 3.36 for unleaded and on the way back it was 4.65 and I saw some for 4.95. Can tyou spell gouge. The news wsas announcing free stay at Eisenhower park where we were for people running from Ike.

[cody]

I will say that Ktmossman certainly makes a compelling arguement for what he so firmly believes in and whether he is right or wrong makes very little differnece as we all see things from a different viewpoint..  At the risk of being controversial I allowed an economics professor from Michigan Tech, (old family friend) read the thread, his words were, "anyone that has an actual grasp or even the slightest inkling of business and how it relates to government and governmental intervention would find the discussion highly entertaining, clearly Mr. Ktmossman can't be serious in advancing such an erronious (sp) perception, he has to be playing the devils advocate for the sake of discussion." That hadn't occured to me, well done Mr Ktmossman.  I have enjoyed seeing the different viewpoints but I'm sure everyone feels we have kind of beaten this to death lol.

[Ncbob]

When I heard locally that gasoline was going to take a jump of about .60 a gallon earlier this week I observed the long lines that day and the yellow flags on the empty pumps the following day. Guess you can't blame the sheeple from doing what the masses are doing...but...

My best information told me that gasoline supplies were low in the pipelines before "Ike" hit TX and LA and no matter what amount of damage the refineries around Galveston would be changing over to produce diesel and heating oil when they went back on line.

Then, after the storm,, the oil industry made statements that there was no shortage of gasoline..the tank farms had plenty.

Now I've been lied to before..hell I've been married 3 times...but I sure would like to see of any of these affected states Attorneys General finds the time or the inclination to inquire as to whether or not this is simply malicious price gouging or an anomaly in the supply system.

I sure would like to see some butts fried over this though!

NCbob

[Sojourner]

Many of the confusion about gas & diesel prices and where crude oil come from and whoever.

Primer on Gasoline Sources and Markets:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/contactexperts.htm

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/cli.html

BTW...please read all of it...because the price of ink is getting too serious.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

[Brassman]

Now I've been lied to before..hell I've been married 3 times...

NCbob, you bust me up

[JohnEd]

NCBob,

Me too. Bro knut, me too.

Cody,

I'm sure you said that with all due respect.  Me too.  But I am not exactly sure that bringing in an expert, and an academic at that, is fair play.  It is what I would do and have done, however.  Good work.

Kt,

I inflicted those regs on corps and businesses as a gummint guy.  After you dealt with the bidness world and had enuf briefings on lessons learned from a procurement disaster and yourself dealt on a daily bases with corrupt people you started to feel like a gladiator and a champion and seriously unappreciated.  And yes, often like you had a target pasted on your back.  There were outfits that I would have crawled in broken glass or laid down in traffic for if they needed my support....they did and i took the bullet.  I never saw a reg I didn't like nor one that I couldn't see the wisdom in as far as protecting the gummint and my sailors.  And there was never a contract let that the guy that bid on and took the contract did not clearly understand what he was making, what specs applied, how he would make it and when it was due to be delivered.  That has never happened in the US of A.  Never mind though that those people begin wining and whimpering and frothing about how wrong it is, how much it is costing them, how stupid it all is and how inept the gummint is.  I have told people I am sick to death and I will not listen to any more of "this crap".  You signed the contract that you read and you knew what the profit margins were when you bid.  Live with it!  Now these are the same people that will tel you that people don't deserve charity cause "those people knew about the weather when they moved there."

Your right, Cody, it is beat to death.  The oil prices can't be blamed on gummint inefficiency, nor on peoples stupidity but only on the guy that selects the price.

oh well,

John

[JohnEd]

Gerald,

I visited the first site you listed.  I noticed something strange about the address.  The doe was in lower cases and "gov" was the third name in the agency title.  I am used to seeing this in descending order from the gummint.  Such as us gummint, DOE, dept X, doc # 10, etc.  That site doesn't follow that outline and it really does not say it is a Fed. Agency anywhere. 

Also I clicked on the second address and it came up an abbreviated list of sub sites.  Clicking on the first site my hard drive went nuts with activity and my connectivity showed a constant stream of outgoing data for a few minutes and the site never came up but I got no error codes from Windows.  How rare of Windows, huh?  I fear that the site is a ruse, it is infected at the site or you passed on an infection from your site.  Just a heads up... only my Wizard can tell for sure.

Thanks,

John

[JohnEd]

Gerald,

Wifey pointed out to me that the site says that the information presented is "from" the us government.  It doesn't say the site is an official US Government site.  doe is never defined as the Department of Energy anywhere i noticed.  It strikes me as odd that a site would go so far to hide who they are from me.  I would seriously suggest that you revisit the authenticity of this info source and wether it is infected.  If my hard drive stays in this level of activity it will be worn out by morning.....we'll see.  Only you can modify your post and delete those references till you can verify.

Good luck to you and us on this.

thanks,

John

[Lin]

John,
     Maybe you should disconnect from the web until you know what's happening.

[Busted Knuckle]

And at what point does a loaf of bread bring 20 dollars or 30 dollars is their any limit where the price becomes obscene? I have very little sympathy for the station that suddenly feels it's justified to charge any price it wants, I won't buy football tickets from scalpers either.

What I suppose you prefer the PACKERS over the Red Skins? And hear I thought you wasn't preduiced! And by the way what do the AMERICAN INDIANS have to do with this price gouging thing? They never burned oil! Not even in their peace pipes!
  BK 


































ROFLMAO!

[GM0406]

What we don't need is the government stepping in to fix prices where they are to prevent them from going up.  Essentially what will happen is that they will prevent them from going down where they surely will go if this economic disaster continues at the present rate!  Let's just let the free enterprise system take care of oil the same way it takes care of all the rest.  The oil bubble shows signs of popping, and the Arabs should be right at the front of lowering oil prices to stay in business and not let these green critters get too far into fans and solar, or fuel cells or whatever before yanking their chains and keeping them long term customers of cheap oil.  Everbody except consumers made money on the oil bubble, and now it is time to get back down to earth and keep the sheeple buying cheap oil that has worked ever since people began driving from point A to point B.  You understand that there are a lot of oil people who don't want the Arabs to provide cheap oil.  These oil people have invested tons of money trying to get around the EPA and squeezing oil out of rocks!  If the Arabs pull the carpet out from under them, well, they just have to close. 

Bill T.

[Sojourner]

JohnEd....Like always I only try to search the where's, the how's and the why's about what is going on with the so called facts and the hear say. Many times the true original facts are impossible to pin point or to point blank. However, I do know this; we need to be total independent from some of middle man products.

Our transportations fuel and home energy is our biggest slice of our hard earn dollar. This can be totally independent from the middle man product.

The following and previous posted links are only database bank of USA information service.

FedStats....very interesting database bank of USA & states & counties numbers
http://www.fedstats.gov/
About FedStats
http://www.fedstats.gov/aboutfedstats.html

About EIA
http://www.fedstats.gov/key_stats/index.php?id=EIA
Collects and disseminates information on energy reserves, production, consumption, distribution, prices, technology, and related international, economic, and financial matters. EIA's programs include data on coal, petroleum, natural gas, and electric and nuclear energy. EIA maintains a comprehensive energy database, disseminates energy data and analyses for a wide variety of customers in the public and private sectors, maintains the National Energy Modeling System for mid-term energy markets analysis and forecasting, maintains the Short-Term Integrated Forecasting System for near-term energy market analysis and forecasting, conducts customer forums and surveys to maintain an up-to-date product and service mix, and maintains systems supporting the electronic dissemination of energy data.

I don't agree the global warming because it had been proving false as per 31000 scientists in the lists. However, I do believe in clean air act for the large cities to stop smog. And keeping the reforest program going for conservation practice.

About the following link....Here one of the main reasons to that our taxes going into the loop hole. Like every one dollar into global warming program will take another 10 dollar into the wasted fund department. And most don't know where it went and why. He, $$$$$$ Congressman John D. Dingell also comments about EIA program...read on:
Statement of Congressman John D. Dingell, Chairman
Committee on Energy and Commerce
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_110/110st148.shtml

About government.... The less government the better!    The poor working people can get richer!

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald