hydrogen generator?

[Ray D]

Be careful in buying this stuff, schemes like these have come up before when gas goes up.  I am not saying they are all schemes, but some them are and that's a fact, Jack.

Ray D

[Tony LEE]

Be careful in buying this stuff

No need to be careful - just don't fall for yet another con that relies on a seemingly inexhaustible supply of new suckers too stupid or too greedy to take any notice of the lessons that history teaches us.Don't take any notice of the sucker that did fall for it and then seeks to make himself feel less stupid by getting others involved.

Of all the tens of thousands of fuel-savers that have been promoted over the last 100 years, can anyone point to any that have been proven and are in use in any production car?
Where exactly are all these 20% increases in power or 20% reduction in fuel use or 20% reduction in emissions that are promised.

Just get used to paying the higher costs of fuel,use less fuel, or sell the bus and buy a pushbike

[jjrbus]

Just because you have been trained by the oil companys not to look for alternatives dont assume that us that do are suckers!!!!! That is rather insulting!!!!
I purchased from the back of Science$Mechanics a special plate to insert in my carb and increased my fuel milage by %50!!! I then ordered the magnets that alter the molecular structure of gas and increased my milage by a whopping %40. I added Tri point Platinum plugs and increased my milage by another 25%!!! The problem started when I bought Dr Phils Hi Tech Kryptonite gas pills which were suppose to add 20% to my fuel milage. My Gas tank started overflowing!!!

[ktmossman]

There was recent Mythbusters episode where they tested several of these "gas mileage boosters".  If I remember correctly, the results were:

1. Magnets - Bogus
2. Acetone - Bogus
3. Hydrogen - Mixed -- The Brown's gas concept (on demand) showed viability in theory (ie. the reaction occurred and generated the HHO) however, it could not generate the HHO in enough volume to make a noticeable difference in the MPG of the vehicle.  They did, however, pump hydrogen directly into the carburetor (from a tank of compressed gas) and it worked, right up until the uncontrolled "bang" because there was no means of flow control on the hydrogen.  So, the concept shows promise, but needs more work...
4. WVO in a diesel - Worked like a champ.  They actually thought it would fail as well and were stunned when they cruised around for quite a while on nothing but WVO.

[haroldmc8]

Not that one,it uses baking soda and water. National Vapor Industries Inc. @ www.nationalvapor.com , makes a unit that uses mineral water and distilled water, no caustic solution= longer life of internal parts and more reliability. There are no computers or other sensors to deal with.

[HB of CJ]

I wonder if even WVO (waste vegetable oil?) would be cost effective over a period of time in a multiple vehicle situation.  Suppose it begins with a definition of terms and stuff like that.  Is it easy to state success---it is quite another thing to be able to scientifically prove cause and effect, plus causality. (sp?)

Have/are/will major trucking companys test the validity of employing WVO in some form as a potential/actual way to reduce the cost-per-mile of operating a large truck fleet?   Perhaps someone who knows more about this stuff than I do will log on and set us straight.  Glug glug and all that stuff. 

[compedgemarine]

unlikely you will see any major trucking co. or other business get too invlolved with WVO or any other type of fuel simply due to the highway tax on fuel. as soon as some gov. official found out about it the feds would be threating back taxes and penalties etc due to trying to avoid the road tax. has already happened with some individuals trying this and there are some court issues resulting from it. would be tough for a business with IFTA's and DOT numbers etc if they got caught.
just my $.02
steve

[HighTechRedneck]

If the trucking companies could be assured of a steady supply when and where they need it, and their total cost was indeed lower, they would probably be happy to pay the road tax on it and still come out ahead.  But, while it is feasible for an individual to get enough WVO to meet their needs, a trucking company would need 1000's of gallons and the ability to refuel a various points across the country.  WVO would soon become a valuable commodity and no longer such a bargain.

[ttomas]

Thanks for the replies folks. As always, quite a variety of opinions.  I am going to try it.  I have seen a  torch run with the system.
Someone quoted  a mithbuster saying acetone did not work to increase mileage.  I have used and tested acetone extensivly, and it does make a substantial difference (however it did work not on every type  of gas engine nor on my tests with diesels). Non of the engines that worked for me were 2000 or later.  I tested a few newer engines ,not many, all had no or little effect.
My 1997 aerostar gets 15% to 25% better mileage adding 2 ounces  of acetone per 10 gallons of gas. I have added it to every tank for over 50k miles with zero adverse effects.
Mithbusters and snake oil salesmen come from the same mold, just different materials.      Tomas

[JohnEd]

About that WVO as fuel.  Anybody that tells you that that won't work is probably trying to protect "his" discovery and fuel supply.  It does work and works so well that it is not debatable.  Problem is that if you load up a modern hi pressure electronic fuel rail D with the stuff the fuel pump will bite the dust.  WVO or SVO(straight Veg Oil) aka Virgin Veg Oil works in the older mechanicals.  One exception that I know of is the VW D.  That seems to work really well and I personally know people that are useing it in them.  I think another on this board said WVO worked in his DDEC but it isn't "supposed to do so for long.  The University study I have read said that it would cause the engine to fail after long term use and that has been proven false by the legion of WVO users.

Just mixing WVO into DinoD would thicken the fuel enough to overload the fuel pump on a modern D engine.

John

[kyle4501]

WVO will work as a fuel

BUT not the same as diesel & if you don't take all the differences into account, engine life can suffer.

The by products of combustion can wreak havoc on the internals of an engine . . . .

How many diesel engines have lasted over 200,000 miles on regular diesel?
How many have lasted over that on WVO?

Then there are all the 'explanations' as to how WVO didn't contribute to a premature death of an engine - almost impossible to know the real reason since accurate data wasn't kept.

The biggest risk to running any alternative fuel is the advice from a good intentioned 'expert' (that misunderstands the real science) telling how simple & easy it is, & as a result people spend $$$ on something that can't work for their application. That $$$ would be better directed at productive research rather than the trash can.


Once you get full disclosure & know all involved in using an alternative fuel, it is mostly a straightforward decision & the results are predictable.


Again, if it needs support from conspiracy theories . . . . . one would be wise to tread carefully. . . .

[Jeremy]

Hydrogen on demand is probably going to be the fuel of choice, it's relatively easy to produce and much safer than on onboard fuel cell.

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but a couple of people have mentioned hydrogen fuel cells:- Just to be clear, fuel cells are not a way of either producing or storing hydrogen - what fuel cells do is convert hydrogen directly to electricity by means of chemical reaction - hence they are used in vehicles that are powered by electric motors, and not in vehicles with piston engines of any sort.

If you have a fuel cell then you need a means of storing the hydrogen, which means tanks - and on a car-sized vehicle that means lightweight yet fully crash-safe tanks operating at around 4000psi pressure - this is at least twice the pressure that immensely heavy industrial hydrogen tanks work at - not surprisingly this is one of the biggest issues which engineers developing hydrogen-powered vehicles have to overcome. In my opinion you can also entirely forget about the 'dream' of on-board generation - producing sufficient amounts of hydrogen to power a vehicle in real-time just isn't going to happen unless someone re-writes the principles of electrolysis. As far as I know there is no big manufacturer or university etc is working on a real-time hydrogen generation system, but obviously lots of tinkerers / conspiracy theorists / snake oil salemen etc claim to have already done it.

Jeremy

[TomC]

Rudolph Diesel used peanut oil to create his first compression ignition engine.  Even in the late 1800's, he was trying to get away from the petroleum companies.  Most all Diesel engines, no matter their design, will run on veg oil.  As stated, with high pressure common rail fuel injection systems running in the 30,000psi range, you have to have veg oil that has the same viscosity as Diesel.  That usually is as simple as heating it up to around 120 degrees.  The new Diesel's that Detroit has, like the DD15 are being advertised as having a B50 life (50% of the engines will get there) of 1.2 million miles.  The big question would be-could you run veg oil in that engine, keep the veg oil consistant to the point that it would allow the engine to last that 1.2 million miles?  Personally, I don't think so. Good Luck, TomC

[cody]

I really hate to burst some bubbles but, radio works, tv is now a reality, and they even have a vehicle called a space shuttle that actually goes up in the air, check some of the past threads, I posted several links to actual vehicles that are being driven, some from very questionable sources, like mercedes and toyota, real snake oil salesman, those guys, also a couple of links from several very questionable universities like Purdue, what has to happen here is for people to stop and do some research on the subject and not just dismiss it as an unworkable concept, california is in the process of setting up a statewide distribution system for 600 toyotas that operate on hydrogen and they will be testing there in a real time situation.  This whole thing reminds me of a phone call I made to detroit diesel to get some information on 2 strokes and I was told that detroit has nothing to do with 2 strokes, that they make diesel engines not weedeaters, thats the actual words I was told by the guy on the other end of the phone at a detroit diesel repair shop.

[Jeremy]

california is in the process of setting up a statewide distribution system for 600 toyotas that operate on hydrogen and they will be testing there in a real time situation.

I suspect you've hoisted yourself on your own petard there - if Toyota was developing on-board generation why would they need a statewide distribution system for the hydrogen?

Jeremy