I'm still thinking about a re-power....

[Lee Bradley]

If you are getting white smoke, you have unburned diesel. Could be low compression (broken rings or just worn-out) or it be bad injectors. I would have the compression checked and have the injectors tested at the same time. Bad injectors will hurt starting and mileage. A little water in the fuel will take the tips right off. Nice thing about 2 cycle DD's they don't pump oil pass the rings like a 4 cycle as they have no suction stroke to pull air into the cylinder.

[Chaz]

Thanx Lee. I've had my suspicions about the injectors for some time. But it's just suspicions. I don't have anything to base it on. But either way, I get the white smoke in start up so I guess there are ring issues. 

Kyle, thanx for learning the hard way and passing it on!  I only have one, but if two would heat a block up in that short of time, it's worth looking into!!

By the way, what "pre-trip inspection"??    LOL
You know, that might make another good thread. I do go over a few things, but a concise, simple and thorough list would be a good idea. I am sure there is probably a thread on here somewhere about it, but maybe another one would be good to start.

Ever learning,
   Chaz

[Tom Y]

Chaz, I talked to a retired trucker that has a rebuilt 8/71 with new heads for 4500.00.  No injecters, he was running 270hp w/55 injecters before rebuild. This would be a right hand engine. I have no intrest in this.  Tom Y

[Dallas]

Chaz,

A couple of questions...

After talking to you on the phone awhile back you indicated the mechanic who ran the rack on your engine was a true 2 cycle Detroit man. Was he satisfied with the way the engine was performing after he did the tuneup? What were his thoughts at the time?

BTB, I may have forgotten... what injectors does the engine have in it now? If they are the wrong ones for your compression and timing, you'll get lot's of smoke. If the modulator is in bad shape, you'll also get lot's of smoke.
If you idle for a bit... (half to one hour or so), you'll get lot's of smoke. If you idle for a bit while playing with the bus... more smoke.... you will see smoke for 50 miles or so until the unburnt fuel in the exhaust has burnt itself out.

In order to look at your pistons, cylinder and rings all you need to do is look at the little stamped metal covers that are underneath the exhaust manifolds. Remove the bolts and the covers and get a good strong light You will need to turn the engine over by hand to be able to view each cylinder's innards.

An easy fix, that will probably keep your power up, your smoke down and your engine strong is to just replace the rings at this point.

If you want a complete inframe or out of frame Overhaul kit, they run about $12-1400 for a custom put together set.

Try and find the engine serial number and rebuild tag then post them here.

Good Luck,

Dallas

[RJ]

By the way, what "pre-trip inspection"??    LOL
You know, that might make another good thread. I do go over a few things, but a concise, simple and thorough list would be a good idea. I am sure there is probably a thread on here somewhere about it, but maybe another one would be good to start.

Chaz -

What you're looking for is not here on the MAK BBS, but here (has been since 2001):

http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614


Also, Kyle mentioned watching how fast the oil level drops and the possibility of overfilling.  With that in mind, you might want to check to see if your dipstick is accurate.  The "Full" mark should be one inch below the oil pan/engine block interface.  This can be checked by placing the dipstick alongside it's tube on the outside, and noting where the markings are.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's off, especially if it's been repaired.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Chaz]

Thanx Tom!! That sounds to me like a good price, from what little I know, but I'd still have to get it here, etc.  I think my engine is still rebuildable so I would rather go that route instead of venturing out into the unknown. 

Dallas,
  He never took it for a ride or anything like that. But I think he felt it was still "ok".
  The injectors are "brown"?? Apparently, they are what they are supposed to be. Hw mentioned that they could/should probably be checked. He couldn't do it then as he had no place to put the bus at the time. (winter) But I think they should also be checked. BUT......... by the time a person spends the time and money to do that, wouldn't you be just as well off to just go ahead and replace them?? It would be my gues that if I need a couple it would work out to about the same money. (??)
  I get smoke right off the bat and it doesn't clear up until I get about a half mile or so down the road. Then it's not bad.
  I'd like to look inside the cylinders sometime myself, but would rather get an experienced person to follow the first time. I'm always willing to learn and not to proud to let someone show me the first time.
  I'll look for that tag. Is there anyplace I should start or where it might be. My motor is not totally filthy, but it is a DD!!
  By the way, I guess I would need to figure leakage in on the oil consumption??!!??  It does mark it's spot, but not too bad, I don't think. I'm use to it since I ride a 1946 Harley!! LOL 

Thanx Russ. I printed that out for future reference.

  Many thanx,
     Chaz

[Dallas]

Chaz,

Here's how to find the serial number for your engine:

The engine serial number and model number are stamped on the cylinder block in the following locations (as viewed from the flywheel end). The left side, upper front corner of current 6V and 8V cylinder blocks and the right side, upper rear corner of current 12V and 16V blocks and former 6V and 8V blocks. An example of a Series 8V71 serial number is 08VAXXXXXX.

You may not have a rebuild tag if it was never overhauled with OS/US bearings/liners etc.

I'll try posting a photo of the serial number location on some engines.



By the way, those rectangular covers above the serial number are the air box covers.

[Chaz]

Thanx Dallas,
  When it quits raining - probably tomorrow - I'll go out and check it out. Those air box covers look easy enough too. I'm assuming they are on both sides of the engine?? Do I need gaskets when I open them up? If so, I'm not sure where I can get'em if NAPA doesn't have'em. I could probably make'em if I have to tho.
  Thanx again,
     Chaz

[makemineatwostroke]

Chaz,you will not rebuild the 8v71 for $2000.00 you are going to need machine work on the heads and block and $2000.00 will just buy you after market parts not DD parts plus you will spend another $1000.00 on special tools to rebuild the engine.I would figure $4 to 5 thousand for a rebuild   fwiw

[Chaz]

Thanx "two stroke". That is what I was figuring. I believe that is the popular belief unless you have Detroit do it. They are probably pretty good, but also pretty proud from what I understand.

    Chaz

[belfert]

The local Detroit dealer charges around $10,000 for a full rebuild of a Series 60 including a 300,000 mile warranty if the engine is under 10 years old.  I would bet a full rebuild of an 8V71 would be even more.

[tekebird]

I would bet a 2 stroke is a cheaper rebuild than a Series engine.

Heck I just located 3 brand new ones for under 9k complete with warranty.

[belfert]

Just because you can find brand new engines for a certain prices doesn't mean a Detroit dealer is going to be able to do rebuilds for less than that.

I am just guessing that a 2 stroke engine would cost more to rebuild than a 4 stroke at a Detroit dealer because folks here have said the 2 stroke is more complicated than a 4 stroke.  Most Detroit dealers don't have a lot of mechanics skilled in 2 strokes so I wouldn't be suprised if they charged a premium for a 2 stroke rebuild.

I'll have to ask what a complete rebuild costs for an 8V71 the next I have to get a part at the Detroit dealer.

[tekebird]

A 2 stroke is far less complicated than a 4 stroke.....I don;t know what "people" are talking about.



as far as a DD dealer not having or having fewer people who know a 2 stroke, that is true, however they are not going to charge a premium..shop time is shop time.

Besides, one would be an idiot to go to a DD shop that didn;t have someone that knows 2 strokes.

Frurthermore, I do not think I would go to a DD dealer for a rebuild, there are hundreds of DD specialist shops accross the country......with there bing bunches of 2 strokes running gensets, pumps and boats there wilol be 2 stroke guys around for the extent of my lifetime at least.

Now I don;t know what a rebuild costs on a 2 stroke......and I am sure you will get different prices different places......and I would expect 10k is about correct at the shop rate a DD Dealer charges.......

But why would you rebuild when you can get a new warranted Engine and just slap her in there

[RJ]

Heck I just located 3 brand new ones for under 9k complete with warranty.

Doug -

LH or RH??