Causes of bus fires

[Paladin]

With several fires in recent news I've been wondering, what are the common causes of non-house system related bus fires?

Hot brakes come to mind as do engine fires but in general, what are the specific causes of engine fires and other potential dangers and what can we do as precautions to help guard against these happening to us? What is prudent for each of us to check off to help protect our investments and our safety? I'm perfectly willing to do an added pre-departure inspection before getting in to drive if it means not losing my bus on the side of the road.

Those who drive commercially, do you have any hints or special list of things that you watch for in particular?

Would a good, well placed extinguisher or two or three really be effective in the event of a fire? It didn't look like it would have been much help in that recent one and others I've seen. Too well involved by the time the problem is discovered, the bus is safely stopped and evacuated.

[tekebird]

brake and tire fires are the most predominate I think with Engine elctrical fires coming in a close second

Outside of properly maintained brake systems, and know how to brake...as well as knowing what dragging brakes feel like.......

A tire pressure/temp system will show both brake and tire temp changes long before they cause fire.

In reallity, once you get a brake or tire fire going....no Extinguisher is going to save the bus.......sit bake watch the flames and call your insurance agent......

did I mention......have agreed value full coverage insurance.

[akbusguy2000]

A lot of studies and data can be found here:  The two studies from Finland are excellent.

http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/Fire%20article.htm


tg

[busguy01]

As the proud owner of 2 EL3 units that are brunt -- both electrical in nature, The one brunt in back was a failure of a ground std. 280 amp@ 28V directly to the frame, On the one brunt in the front it appears electrical but haven't located the actual cause - however fire started in electrical panel beside and under driver.
JimH

[JackConrad]

Another cause of engine compartment fires are leaking turbochargers. Keeping the engine compartment clean can help. Jack

[HighTechRedneck]

Just thinking out loud here.  I wonder if a system to release a high volume of halon into the engine compartment and/or wheel wells in case of fire would stop it.  As I understand halon, it removes oxygen from the immediate environment.  Expensive, I know, but so is a bus, and in the case of commercial service, the potential for liability.

[Melbo]

an oil coated engine compartment will keep a fire going for a long time

as previously mentioned a clean engine compartment will make for a more localized fire

much easier to put out

Melbo

[luvrbus]

Hightech, Jim Shepard  RV Safety on this board sells a unit like you are talking about I plan on buying one for my generator and engine compartment from him this spring and the price is not all that bad FWIW a little cash goes a long way for piece of mind

[plyonsMC9]

Yes, Jim (rv_safetyman) is an expert in this area.

Here is a good discussion we had earlier on this board:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=35.0

Hope this helps!
Phil

[buswarrior]

Hello.

Most bus fires are a byproduct of shoddy inspection and maintenance.

A good preventive maintenance program and careful regular inspection goes a long way to catching the conditions which lead to fire.

As noted, you will not be able to put out a brake/tire fire without removing the massive heat. The overheated drum and rims will just restart the tire fire once your extinguisher is depleted. Only a tanker full of water has a chance at saving that one. Inspect brakes regularly, annual disassemble and grease. And as noted, learn one of the methods for getting down the mountain without overheating the brakes!

Engine room hoses for fuel and hydraulic are sources of flammables. Spring a leak and the exhaust gets it going. Good preventive maintenance to keep those lines fresh, change out hoses of unknown age, hardened, worn spots and inspected in an ongoing fashion for secure fastening, no chafing or rubbing to get the leaks going. Powerwash any oil leaks regularly. Better still, get them fixed!

Electrical, again, inspection of the big amp cables and routine disassembly and cleaning of all major connections, grounds especially. All the rest of the wires (yes, ALL half a billion of them..) carefully secured against movement and chafing, addition of tape/rubber to ensure no rubbing against framework, check all through bulkhead locations, grommets may have succumbed to the ravages of time long ago...

Owning a coach is not a "drive it, park it and forget it about it until the next time" relationship. These coaches have a lot of hard run miles on them, and require an investment in time every year for us to do some PM work. The coach will reward your efforts by showing you her weaknesses in the driveway, where we may cheaply and conveniently do some repairs and upgrades. In return, she will give you reliable service out on the road.

Ignore her, well, nobody gets away with that for long....

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[JackConrad]

Halon is not a good extinguishing agent for an engine compartment due to the massive amount of air that is constantly being introduced by the huge fan(s). Jim's system, which we have on our bus uses water or RV antifreeze with "ColdFire" added to make the extinguishing agent. Our system is connected to the FRire Detection system for automatic discdharge or the system can be manually discharged at the relay valve in the the bay or from the protected switch inside the bus.  Jack

[Ed Hackenbruch]

ColdFire will take the heat out of the brakes better than plain water and keep it from reigniteing. I carry 4 different sizes of Jim"s extinguishers in the bus plus i have a bunch of the ones that are the size of an aerorsal paint can that i have in my cars and truck.

[Sojourner]

Buswarrior....very go post to remind us keep it fire preventive as possible.

My MCI-8 came from charter bus company with messy wiring & fuel lines.

After watching many professional races....coldfire is in my list.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry

[Jerry32]

I know from driving school bus that there is a pre trip inspection that covers checking for secure wires no fraying etc,, looks at belts for proper tension and condition. checks componenets in the engine room for loose or missing parts and for leaks and for cleanliness of the engine room itself. The inspection covers mush more than that incluseing undercarage and brakes and steering. checks the condition of exhaust system and condition of the safety equipment . It would be wise to get an inspection system for your bus that would satisfy some of the safety issues for your own good. Jerry

[rv_safetyman]

Thanks for all the kind words. 

One of the things I harp on in my seminars is to consider installing "blankets" on the exhaust manifolds and turbo.  One source of these blankets is:  http://www.atpwrap.com/html/motorcoach.html.  I used these on my Series 60.  When I had the 6V92 in the bus I used a some product from:  http://www.engineheatprotection.com (loyal BC Mag. advertisers).  As you will see from my project pages (see link in signature) I used the "wetblanket" for the manifolds and the rollboard on the exhaust pipes.

We hear a large number of "horror stories" at our trade shows.  One of the significant themes is tire fires on the toad which then catches the bus/motorhome on fire.  I won't say that the numbers are huge, but I have heard of at least three such fires.  Several of our bus folks have had tire failures on the toad, but, thank goodness, they did not have a fire.  About the only way to prevent/detect a toad tire problem is with a tire pressure monitor system.

Jim