any comments looking at MCI 9

[scottie]

HI
happy new year to everyone!!

just got in the door from looking at a 1987 MCI 9 crudsader II
6V92
5 SPEED STANDARD
TIRES,BATTERIES,ALTERNATOR ,EXHAUST MANUFOLD, ALL NEW, ALONG WITH THE TWO FANS? ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ENGINE.
THE BUS STARTED UP RIGHT AWAY,I THINK IT WAS AROUND 40 DEGRESS OUT SIDE TODAY
I DIDNT SEE ANY SMOKE AT ALL.THEY TOLD ME THAT SOMETIMES "BLACK" SMOKE COMES OUT THE EXHAUST..(BUS WAS RUNNING THE DAY BEFORE)
NO WASHROOM
AIR BAG SUSPENSION LOOK NEW TOO
140 GALLON FUEL TANKS
ALL GAUGES WORK, FUEL TOO
NO DENTS OR DAMAGE ON BODY
ALL 3 BAY DOORS OPEN AND CLOSED JUST FINE
420,000 APP. MILES
RECORDS THERE!! FROM FIRST OWNER (GOVERMENT BUS)
THE FLOOR HAS KIND OF A RAMP FROM JUST BEHIND THE DRIVERS SEAT,IN THE MIDDLE  OF THE FLOOR TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE BUS FOR ABOUT 4 FEET??
QUESTIONS...
WERE ANY OF THESE BUSES UNDER COATED? (CANADA) KIND OF LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING UNDERNEATH??
DOES BLACK SMOKE JUST MEAN ITS TOO RICH???
ANY THING ELSE I SHOULD KNOW???
ASKING $15,000.00
SCOTTIE 

[blue_goose]

Dosn't sound bad, but if you shop a little you can get a 102 wide with automatic for the same price. 
Jack

[tekebird]

I would say you are not going to find a 102 with an Auto with less than 500k on the ticker.

of course at the 420k mark I would be planning on a rebuild or transplant in the near future.

[scottie]

thanks for the imput
yes i was leaning toward a automatic,but this bus was so close i had to look at it.
there is another one about 4 hours away,its the same as what i looked at today but 1/2 the price,problem is, i call the guy 6 times over the last few days and i cant  get ahold of him ....

hey tekebird are you saying that the DD  engines only do about 400,000 to 500,000 mile between rebuilds??
cheers
scottie 

[tekebird]

thats what I be sayin...unless you go to a series 50/60 engine.

id thisa a Canadian Armed Forces Bus?

[NJT5047]

If the engine doesn't smoke, leak oil, and starts in 40* weather without great balls of smoke,  holds good oil pressure when idling at op temp, it has a lot of miles left in it. Probably more miles than most RV users will ever accrue. 
Generally, a worn engine won't hold visible oil pressure when at operating temps, and you'll see blue smoke from the exhaust once it warms up.  Blue smoke at operating temp is bad news.  White smoke for a minute on cold starts isn't significant. 
Government buses are not run 24-7 an the unit may be in unusually nice condition.  The manual trans will give you an idea of wear and tear.  If it shifts nice and has minimal slop, it's very likely a mechanically good bus.
IF it isn't rusted out.  MC9s can have a ton of rust that'll cause all sorts of issues.  Check around the radiators sheet metal, squirrel cage blowers, engine cradle and related steel (for rust and cracks), and inside the spare tire compartment.   Check in the upper bay areas for rusted crossmembers or rotted flooring.  If it exists, it'll be visible in the bays. 
Has anything been in the bays?  Probably like new.
Does the bus have a sedan door?   
If no major rust problems, you got a nice coach.  Buy it. 
IMHO any 'nice' 102, even an older A3, will bring more than $15K.  Nice coaches will.  There are some rags that'll go for less.  Fuel prices may temporarily depress bus prices...maybe permanently?
Another plus is the lack of a restroom.  No rotted floors or stinky crapper removal. 
I'd look carefully at the coach.  Most government buses are pretty decent coaches.
I've got an 87 NJT that has undercoating-like material on the underside of the bay floors. 
All MC9s have that ramp you describe.  It comes out by removing the screws from the edge strip.  The whole ramp can be removed as a unit.   Flattening the floor is relatively easy.  Definitely something that should be done. 
It blows black smoke because it's an MUI (I'll bet) with manual transmission.  If you give it more fuel than it can burn, it'll make black smoke.  That's not a fault...just something MUIs do.   DDEC was not offered in most 87 year model MC9s...a few transit operators (NJT for one) spec'd  DDEC units.   Most bus owners prefer MUIs.  Easier to find mechanics for MUIs.
The only negative I see, so far, is the manual transmission.  And that isn't a negative in my book, but it is for RV conversion.  It could be converted to auto.  The manual would suit me just fine. 
Buy it!  JR 



 

[tekebird]

Comment on Engines being worn out.

prior to installing a new 6-71 in my 04 the old engine ran fine, started in cold weather, didn't smoke any ammount to even comment on etc etc.  when it was replaced it was torn down just to see......everyone was ammazed that it was still running the cyl. were not scored but polished to an incredible amount......wasn't using oil, held Pressure etc.

who knows how much longer it would have run.

upon installation the difference was evident.....the new engine had alot more power.....although on real long grades it suffered, it had no issues with any of the highway grades in PA holding good speed and maintaining top gear.

a two stroke detroit will run worn out.... some will not smoke or give you any other indication of wear....some will......

just keep in mind at 500k expect it to let go....sometime in your future.

[tekebird]

Rust:  Look here

1. Structure in the rear suspension...I have seen then starting to exfoliate

2. the two pieces of structure that hold the blowers up

3. Look down the side of the bus.....if it is wavey ( painted area) it is rusting on the inside

4. Baggage compartments. Corners of the compartments at the bottom...although not anything bad here it is a good indicator of what type of exposure it had.

5. The fresh air intakes ( plenum) on the sides just aft of the steer wheels......if that area is rusty or paint is bubbling it is rusting inside too.

6. Any bristering under the paint is a sign of something worse elsewhere.


NJT is right most newer buses worth having will bring much more than 15k.

even with the probably...nay expected motor transplant 15k for a nice clean straight bus is not bad, sure there are lower priced shells out there, but it al depends on what you will accept as far as flaws.  Some are happier than a clam with banged up pannels, rust blisters, mismatched well worn tires etc.......because it is the ride they are enjoying.

manual is only an issue if others might have to learn how to drive it ( read wife), or if you ever want to sell it.


Unless you want to do the conversion yourself: because you want to do it is a hobby, have some sort of special design need (16 kids) or something of the like.....you might want to consider a already converted coach.  many good conversions ( home done and Proffessionally done) can be had for less than what you will have in any nicely appointed conversion (just parts) if you do it yourself......and you will not be out hundreds/thousands of man hours.

Same as the condition of the bus.....if you cut corners, bargain shop for bits over 3 years, are OK with metal tent camping etc......it can be done cheaper.

Don't be swayed because it is close
Buy a good platform or a good already done conversion.

and keep in mind...buses are not cheap to fix......so remember that when budgeting......if you can barely afford the bus......or the fuel.......what are you going to do when you have a couple grand repair bill on the road.

[scottie]

hi
yes it a x canadaian armed forces bus...how did you know??
a few things i forgot to mention after running the bus for 20 minutes the air pressure gauge read 125 and the oil pressure was just over 25 mark maybe 26/27 is that normal??
also there was two cracked windows on the side and it looked like they were double paine glass and it was the out side ones that were cracked...
there seam to be some rust around the two fans on either side of the engine (squarel cages??) looks like someone might have had a hard time installing the new fans
the three bays looks pretty good for a 21 year old canadaian bus, but like you say its not run 24/7
i did look down the sides of the bus and there were no waves,rust ,dings anywhere.
im looking at doing the conversion my self as a hobby for the next few years...so i can do it my way and watch the buget too...right now im just concerned on the mechinical part of the bus and of course it would be nice if it was straight and in good shape
sorry for the silly questions but im "new" and still learning...
what is a sedan door??
also what  mui stand for???
thanks again
scottie

[buswarrior]

Hello Scottie.

Sounds like a nice coach. Mechanicals can be repaired and replaced, having a fresh looking coach from the beginning is a good thing.

The dealer that has it didn't pay that high, and few, if any, of the 3rd tier companies around here are going to buy a manual equipped MC9... They want wide bodies and automatics. You have some room and some time to negotiate.

As for the drivetrain, I know where there is a low mileage 8V71 and Allison that will bolt in.

MUI is a mechanical unit injection, mechanical fuel injectors, DDEC is computer controlled electric injectors.
A sedan door is a one piece door hinged at the front, Bi-fold is the two piece doors that open in the middle, like a transit bus.

If you want some help, e-mail is in my profile.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[scottie]

ok so its got a sedan door,and mui.......im learning thanks
the other one im trying to get a hold of i think is in your neck of the woods (416) area code
thanks for your offer buswarrior
scottie
oh yah the air  did work but the heat does!! so many things to remember 

[tekebird]

Canadian Armed forces bus  Canadian Govt bus with no restroom.

Don't know if this is the one but there was one on ebay I think some time back...it was at a used car lot.

maybe same one.....he wanted more then.

how did you check the A/C it's winter

[scottie]

im not sure but i dont think this one was on ebay.
i know there is one in southern ontario,at a dealers lot,it might have been that one.
as for the air,we didnt try it the guy just told me it didnt work
after running the bus for 20 minutes  is it normal for the air pressure to be at 125 and the oil pressure at about 27
thanks
scottie

[buswarrior]

Yes, air is fine.

The dash gauges for oil pressure are notoriously unreliable as the years go by, so you don't make purchasing decisions based on their readings.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Busted Knuckle]

Scottie,
I have a friend in Niagara on the Lake that bought a used canadian govt. 9 for a conversion platform. And you can bank on the records! If it says it's been done it has! We were amazed at how well it had been maintained! And if my memorie is correct there is some sort of law that they have to replace or rebuild all the items you mentioned (and more), before disposing of them. (some sorta liability issue about selling un-roadworthy coaches) Now before any of you more knowledgable canooks go get'n riled up, I am merely stating what Steve told me he was told & the condition of hjs coach backed it up! FWIW   BK